f16falcon6 Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 So I was about to order my plans when I came across this project for sale. As I was looking at the photo's the seller sent me I noticed that it appears he has changed the IP from the plans design. Can anyone tell me by looking at the photo if this is going to be a problem? It appears that in earlier photos during his build that he had the correct cutouts but now in the current state the IP looks different. Thanks Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 The picture does not look any different than my insturment panel. Of course it is not that good of a picture and I might be missing something. Remember you are building a fiberglass plane you can patch or change anything on it pretty much. Lots of guys cut their whole insturment panel out and put in an aluminum one. This is not a problem with a new project if the price is right it will save you some time and money. The down side is that most guys learn how to do fiberglass work on the bulkheads that are flat and eze to do. You might want to find someone close by and go help them to pick up some tricks and fiberglass skills. Build on STeve Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16falcon6 Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 I think it's a pretty good deal, the guy is asking 1500, and includes everything to finish through chapter 7. I was just Kind of looking at where the leg cutouts are on the IP and it appears that one side was cut out more than the other. Maybe it is the way it is supposed to be I just wanted to make sure. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Ashton Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Easy to fix. In the worst case, you cut out the IP with a Sawzall, gently sand the old BID corner tapes away with a die grinder and and glass in a new iP reflecting your own unique builder prejudices. ;-) -Kent Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16falcon6 Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Is having it cut out this way going to diminish any structural integrity of the IP? Also will it cause any future problems with the build in later chapters? I'm fine with the idea that I can simply replace the foam that was removed and re-fiberglass the IP to make it conform to the plans. In the end I just don't want more headaches then necessary. I think I will call the seller today and ask him why he made the cuts the way he did. If anyone else has any more comments on this I would appreciate them. Also is $1500 a decent price for a project this far in the build? I added up the cost of materials including epoxy and it seems to be a good deal. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloflight Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Craig, I and some other builders have also eliminated that part in order to have more leg room under the panel. The seat bottom is cut short by an inch or two just under the thighs. This gives more room to get legs under dash. I of course have no idea if this was the previous builders intention or just a mistake that would be easy to fix if you wanted to make it like the plans. Here is a pic of my instrument panel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelj Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 You should not be too concerned about the modification. Either leave it as is or modify it to conform to the plans. There is no need to cut out the entire panel to add the missing foam and glass. I have built two MKIV's , a Long EZ and parts for other machines too. It would be best to take a friend along who has experience in glass layups to inspect the work. Be prepared to take a few measurements. In particular you want to check to squareness of the fuselage, and take two carpenters levels to check for any twist in the fuselage. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy1200 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 In my opinion, $1500 is too high for the current status. I purchased a tub a couple years ago that is in about the same stage. I paid $561 for the tub off ebay. I later sold it before we moved to OZ and IIRC I received about $300-350 on ebay. These early uncompletely cozys are not even worth the materials invested. Quote Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer) --- www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! --- Brace for impact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Is having it cut out this way going to diminish any structural integrity of the IP?Probably not. What's removed on the left side should allow more leg room for the co-pilot. Also will it cause any future problems with the build in later chapters? Maybe. The nose wheel may interfere, the seat pan may need to be modified. But see how Wayne Hicks did his front seat pans first.Also is $1500 a decent price for a project this far in the build?Would you be pleased with spending $1500 for it? I know I've several months into mine to get it to the tub stage, I figure I have $10,000 invested in time/materials Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy1200 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm not implying that there not $1500+ invested. But past browsing on ebay sells is proof enough as to resell value. Would I or the seller be happy selling for less? Absolulty not. But reality is reality. Quote Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer) --- www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! --- Brace for impact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm not implying that there not $1500+ invested.Alas, you're right More motivation for me to finish Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 These early uncompletely cozys are not even worth the materials invested.I beg to differ (someone is holding a gun to my head). How could they be worth less than the materials? The only way that would be possible if the workmanship was very much not good or incorrect. The general rule of thumb I have seen is that they're worth about as much as the materials, rounded up for your $0.02/hour labor fee. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy1200 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 I beg to differ (someone is holding a gun to my head). How could they be worth less than the materials? . It's the old supply & demand thing. At any given point only so many are available for sale and so many buyers willing to bid. The supply & demand appears to vary greatly. It's no different than any other asset. How many homes are now for sale that are worth less than they were last year, or even new? It's doesn't change what's invested, just their resale value. Resale value doesn't necessarily match investments. Watch the stock market recently. Ok, enough of me trying to teach economics, I barely grasped the concept in college when I was studying it. I figured I better back up my statement or admit ignorance. So here a quick sample of old sales that I could quickly find. Unfortunately Ebay removes old auctions so we don't know what closing price is on some of these. Asking price does appear to following material costs, but not always. The final selling price on these would be really helpful. Somebody like David Orr would be the best person to ask on resale value of uncompleted planes. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cozy-MkIV-4-Seat-Composite-Canard-Airframe-Project_W0QQitemZ270232511229QQcmdZViewItem $3300 Tub & Canard http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COZY-MK-IV-Project-Fuselage-assmebly-complete_W0QQitemZ270235003432QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270235003432& $2999 Ch9 Tub on Wheels no bids http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4227&highlight=sale Asking $8k If I had to guess, I say he has more than $8k invested. Up through Ch14 http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2741 Invested $11k Asking $7500 Reduced to $6500. Early Stage Tub http://forum.canardaviation.com/showthread.php?t=2953 Sold for $1080 estimated $2000 invested Part way through CH6 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cozy-Mark-4-Project_W0QQitemZ4579593805QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem $500 - good deal Ch7 Asking $2000 http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=950 To Ch7 & Ch10 Asking $1800 http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417 http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458 Invested $34k, Asking $19k http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811 Asking $3500, Defiantly more invested. Quote Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer) --- www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! --- Brace for impact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMan Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I was thinking about selling my Cozy project last year (summer 2007) and I had chapters 4-7. I had started the instrument panel and cut out f22 & f28 and thought I was get a reaction to the fiber glass cloth (when I was cutting and readying the cloth I would get a irritated nose and throat, now I just wear a mask whenever I do anything) and thought I should just sell the whole thing. I listed on barnstormers and some of the offers I got were just crazy 200-800 for NEW materials that I had just paid (July) more than 3000.00 for ( bought some tools also) so after thinking about it for the winter, I just started building again this summer and now I'm working on it every day and ready for chapter 6 real soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy1200 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 as the Austrian's say "good on ya, Mate" That great news. From thinking of selling to active builder. keep it up. Quote Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer) --- www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! --- Brace for impact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZUCZZ Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 the Austrian's say "good on ya, Mate They say that in Australia too, amazing Quote I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here! Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath) Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spodman Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 They say that in Australia too, amazingAnd we have Eucalypts... Do you get Drop Bears? Well done MadMan:cool: Quote Mark Spedding - SpodmanDarraweit Guim - AustraliaCozy IV #1331 - Chapter 09www.mykitlog.com/Spodmanwww.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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