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f16falcon6

Thinking about buying project *Please Look*

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So I was about to order my plans when I came across this project for sale. As I was looking at the photo's the seller sent me I noticed that it appears he has changed the IP from the plans design. Can anyone tell me by looking at the photo if this is going to be a problem? It appears that in earlier photos during his build that he had the correct cutouts but now in the current state the IP looks different. Thanks

 

Craig

post-7756-14109016147_thumb.jpg

post-7756-141090161475_thumb.jpg

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The picture does not look any different than my insturment panel. Of course it is not that good of a picture and I might be missing something. Remember you are building a fiberglass plane you can patch or change anything on it pretty much. Lots of guys cut their whole insturment panel out and put in an aluminum one. This is not a problem with a new project if the price is right it will save you some time and money. The down side is that most guys learn how to do fiberglass work on the bulkheads that are flat and eze to do. You might want to find someone close by and go help them to pick up some tricks and fiberglass skills. Build on STeve


Steve Harmon

Lovin Life in Idaho

Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ

http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/

Working on Chapter 19,21

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I think it's a pretty good deal, the guy is asking 1500, and includes everything to finish through chapter 7. I was just Kind of looking at where the leg cutouts are on the IP and it appears that one side was cut out more than the other. Maybe it is the way it is supposed to be I just wanted to make sure.

 

Craig

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Easy to fix. In the worst case, you cut out the IP with a Sawzall, gently sand the old BID corner tapes away with a die grinder and and glass in a new iP reflecting your own unique builder prejudices. ;-)

-Kent


-Kent
Cozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold

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Is having it cut out this way going to diminish any structural integrity of the IP? Also will it cause any future problems with the build in later chapters? I'm fine with the idea that I can simply replace the foam that was removed and re-fiberglass the IP to make it conform to the plans. In the end I just don't want more headaches then necessary. I think I will call the seller today and ask him why he made the cuts the way he did. If anyone else has any more comments on this I would appreciate them. Also is $1500 a decent price for a project this far in the build? I added up the cost of materials including epoxy and it seems to be a good deal.

 

Craig

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Craig,

 

I and some other builders have also eliminated that part in order to have more leg room under the panel. The seat bottom is cut short by an inch or two just under the thighs. This gives more room to get legs under dash.

 

I of course have no idea if this was the previous builders intention or just a mistake that would be easy to fix if you wanted to make it like the plans.

 

Here is a pic of my instrument panel:

post-673-141090161479_thumb.jpg

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You should not be too concerned about the modification. Either leave it as is or modify it to conform to the plans. There is no need to cut out the entire panel to add the missing foam and glass. I have built two MKIV's , a Long EZ and parts for other machines too. It would be best to take a friend along who has experience in glass layups to inspect the work. Be prepared to take a few measurements. In particular you want to check to squareness of the fuselage, and take two carpenters levels to check for any twist in the fuselage.

 

Mike

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In my opinion, $1500 is too high for the current status. I purchased a tub a couple years ago that is in about the same stage. I paid $561 for the tub off ebay.

 

I later sold it before we moved to OZ and IIRC I received about $300-350 on ebay.

 

These early uncompletely cozys are not even worth the materials invested.


Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer)

---

www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! :cool:

---

Brace for impact...

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Is having it cut out this way going to diminish any structural integrity of the IP?

Probably not. What's removed on the left side should allow more leg room for the co-pilot.

Also will it cause any future problems with the build in later chapters?

Maybe. The nose wheel may interfere, the seat pan may need to be modified. But see how Wayne Hicks did his front seat pans first.

Also is $1500 a decent price for a project this far in the build?

Would you be pleased with spending $1500 for it? ;)

 

I know I've several months into mine to get it to the tub stage, I figure I have $10,000 invested in time/materials :rolleyes:

 

Rick


Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.

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I'm not implying that there not $1500+ invested. But past browsing on ebay sells is proof enough as to resell value.

 

Would I or the seller be happy selling for less? Absolulty not. But reality is reality.


Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer)

---

www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! :cool:

---

Brace for impact...

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I'm not implying that there not $1500+ invested.

Alas, you're right :sad:

More motivation for me to finish :)

 

Rick


Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.

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These early uncompletely cozys are not even worth the materials invested.

I beg to differ (someone is holding a gun to my head). How could they be worth less than the materials? The only way that would be possible if the workmanship was very much not good or incorrect.

 

The general rule of thumb I have seen is that they're worth about as much as the materials, rounded up for your $0.02/hour labor fee.


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Developer & Builder
Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Building Cozy Mark IV+ (widened rear)

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I beg to differ (someone is holding a gun to my head). How could they be worth less than the materials? .

It's the old supply & demand thing. At any given point only so many are available for sale and so many buyers willing to bid. The supply & demand appears to vary greatly. It's no different than any other asset. How many homes are now for sale that are worth less than they were last year, or even new? It's doesn't change what's invested, just their resale value. Resale value doesn't necessarily match investments. Watch the stock market recently. Ok, enough of me trying to teach economics, I barely grasped the concept in college when I was studying it.

 

I figured I better back up my statement or admit ignorance. So here a quick sample of old sales that I could quickly find. Unfortunately Ebay removes old auctions so we don't know what closing price is on some of these. Asking price does appear to following material costs, but not always. The final selling price on these would be really helpful.

 

Somebody like David Orr would be the best person to ask on resale value of uncompleted planes.

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cozy-MkIV-4-Seat-Composite-Canard-Airframe-Project_W0QQitemZ270232511229QQcmdZViewItem

$3300 Tub & Canard

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COZY-MK-IV-Project-Fuselage-assmebly-complete_W0QQitemZ270235003432QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270235003432&

$2999 Ch9 Tub on Wheels

no bids

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4227&highlight=sale

Asking $8k

If I had to guess, I say he has more than $8k invested.

 

Up through Ch14

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2741

Invested $11k Asking $7500 Reduced to $6500.

 

Early Stage Tub

http://forum.canardaviation.com/showthread.php?t=2953

Sold for $1080 estimated $2000 invested

 

Part way through CH6

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cozy-Mark-4-Project_W0QQitemZ4579593805QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$500 - good deal

 

Ch7 Asking $2000

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=950

 

To Ch7 & Ch10 Asking $1800

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458

Invested $34k, Asking $19k

 

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811

Asking $3500, Defiantly more invested.


Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer)

---

www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! :cool:

---

Brace for impact...

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I was thinking about selling my Cozy project last year (summer 2007) and I had chapters 4-7. I had started the instrument panel and cut out f22 & f28 and thought I was get a reaction to the fiber glass cloth (when I was cutting and readying the cloth I would get a irritated nose and throat, now I just wear a mask whenever I do anything) and thought I should just sell the whole thing. I listed on barnstormers and some of the offers I got were just crazy 200-800 for NEW materials that I had just paid (July) more than 3000.00 for ( bought some tools also) so after thinking about it for the winter, I just started building again this summer and now I'm working on it every day and ready for chapter 6 real soon. :cool:

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as the Austrian's say "good on ya, Mate"

 

That great news. From thinking of selling to active builder. keep it up.


Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer)

---

www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! :cool:

---

Brace for impact...

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the Austrian's say "good on ya, Mate

They say that in Australia too, amazing :bad:


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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They say that in Australia too, amazing

And we have Eucalypts... Do you get Drop Bears?

 

Well done MadMan:cool:


Mark Spedding - Spodman
Darraweit Guim - Australia
Cozy IV #1331 -  Chapter 09
www.mykitlog.com/Spodman
www.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane

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