New Builder In Westchester County NY

[lhendrick]

Hello all. I recently posted in the Marketplace Section looking for plans for a Cozy Mk IV and am pleased to say I was able to purchase a set and I got M- drawings from ACS too.

 

I am planning on staying close to the plans as published, but I am gathering information on electric-retract-nose-gear, and moving the fuel selector close to the throttle quadrant ala Wayne Hicks. Lycoming engine per plans. IFR capable. I will be looking at the AeroCanard molded parts for possible ways to speed up the build where available. Cozy Girl hardware to save fabrication time.

 

About me: I'm 59, married, former IT Executive. Private Pilot, ASEL, 400 hours in Archer,Arrow, TB9, TB20 and C172, out of KHPN (under the NY Class B). A year of protracted frustrating instrument training which I will now have to repeat or find a good finishing class (like Marc Z did). Will be joining a flying club out of KHPN to keep skills sharp.

 

 

Here's where I am so far:

 

1. I'm planning to take the Sportair Composites class in Feb at Chesapeake, Va. for some exposure to the whole composites process.

 

2. I'm putting together a first order for Chapter 4-7 materials, required tools and supplies.

 

Question: I'm thinking of using MGS epoxy. Which type, 285 or 335 for my rather cool climate (2 car attached garage under house, Southern New England climate, ability to heat the space as required for cure.)? Also, how many gallons should I order to have enough for Chapters 4-7 and some practice layups?

 

3. I live in Waccabuc, NY, zip 10597. Nearest airport is Danbury (KDXR), CT and then Westchester (KHPN), NY. I plan to join a local EAA Chapter to make some contacts, hopefully someone building similar craft. All leads appreciated as I don' t know if the EAA chapters in my area are very active. Here's the google maps link to my home location:

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&q=waccabuc,+NY+10597&ie=UTF8&ll=41.722131,-73.372192&spn=1.836781,3.537598&z=8&iwloc=addr

 

Anyone in the NY, NJ and CT areas that is interested in sharing information contact me to discuss? I am available to help with layups as an extra pair of willing hands to learn the ropes.

 

4. I reviewed the Cozy Girls recomended Tool Package available through Wicks and it looks like a good deal for some helpful tools to get at once.

 

5. I'm planning on using a scale for epoxy ratios. From what I've read a pump is nice but I thought this might be a place to save some $$. I know, I know, I'm looking at spending tens of thousands in the coming years, but no sense throwing it away.....we'll see how that pans out.

 

6. Tomorrow I get the lumber to build my worktable, a 4 x 12 footer using I-Joists and plywood and the car starts living outside.

 

Well, that's enough for now. Look forward to posting progress. I'll put together the obligatory web site to document my build and resist the temptation to start an aviation based business

 

 

Larry

Carnardiologist

[Cozy Girrrl]

Welcome Larry

 

If you are going with a scale thats fine, please take a look at Jerry Schneider's web site...ugh I just went there, no don't! Jerry used to have it worked out with the resin and hardner in cans in a heated cabinet above the scale with a pair of ball valves controlling flow above the scale, nice and simple.

After the big layups where you needs lots of resin RIGHT NOW you can later switch to pouring straight from the cans, faster, simpler for small amounts.

 

You're in a good place to be building/flying. I used to live up on the Cape, later worked down in Scarsdale and over in Jersey. I think a couple Cozy's being built up in CT, a C-III & Mk-IV out on LI, Ken Miller way out on the island, some great planes being built in PA as well.

 

Regards, Chrissi

[TMann]

6. Tomorrow I get the lumber to build my worktable, a 4 x 12 footer using I-Joists and plywood .......

Excellect choice, the I-Joist. Makes for a good table.

 

I'm using 335 and vacuum bagging. I'm using electric blankets to address the heat issues during the winter. Always looking to make it warmer.

 

Out of curiosity, what was the plans number?

Just curious as to how many have been sold to date.

[lhendrick]

Welcome Larry

 

If you are going with a scale thats fine, please take a look at Jerry Schneider's web site...ugh I just went there, no don't! Jerry used to have it worked out with the resin and hardner in cans in a heated cabinet above the scale with a pair of ball valves controlling flow above the scale, nice and simple.

After the big layups where you needs lots of resin RIGHT NOW you can later switch to pouring straight from the cans, faster, simpler for small amounts.

 

You're in a good place to be building/flying. I used to live up on the Cape, later worked down in Scarsdale and over in Jersey. I think a couple Cozy's being built up in CT, a C-III & Mk-IV out on LI, Ken Miller way out on the island, some great planes being built in PA as well.

 

Regards, Chrissi

 

Excellent! Thanks for the builder leads. And that sounds like a way to go on the resin delivery.

[rickh]

Scale is nice, and I think it's real quick to portion epoxy. Set the cup on, pour 100gm of resin, add hardener to 130gm and mix. Wrap it with a sheet of disposable poly, and it'll do double duty in the kitchen too.

 

Engineered materials for the table are also recommended (no/minimal warpage), though I question making it 48" in depth. It'll be difficult to reach the center when doing a larger layup. Mine is 36" in depth, and I find that more than adequate. The raw length is 10' too, but the outer 3' is loose, and can be (is) extended to 12' for doing the canard.

 

Find someway to keep the shop heated to 70F during work sessions. Final cure (like over night) can be made by tenting and a heat source of some sort. Though I don't use an epoxy hot box, warming the epoxy cans to 80-90F does make for easy/quick wet-out. Warm them in a sink of hot water works. Buy in quantities to last six months.

 

MGS is nice epoxy, good TG also. So is Pro-Set and Aeropoxy. Pro-Set seems to be the best wetout, MGS is highly rated, Aeropoxy is used by many. To a point, epoxy choice is somewhat personal, all the recommended epoxies will make a go-fast four seater plane with the little wing in front

 

Rick

[rickh]

I forgot to add, if you don't have the CSA Canard Fly-In at Rough River (2i3) penciled in on your calender, you're an idjut. Be there, or be trapezoid. It is total canard immersion, and some pretty cool people are there too

 

Rick

[steve]

I forgot to add, if you don't have the CSA Canard Fly-In at Rough River (2i3) penciled in on your calender, you're an idjut. Be there, or be trapezoid. It is total canard immersion, and some pretty cool people are there too

 

Rick

dont do RR, there are no plane rides there !

just some kid running around getting notches in his belt:bad:

p.s. welcome, 3 feet, 285, scale, cg, router-temp, plactic-ply, if you get a ride and it gose upside down your face will look like the jokers. even now i am smilling (thanks paul and linda) about my last ride

[JTest]

Hello all. I recently posted in the Marketplace Section looking for plans for a Cozy Mk IV and am pleased to say I was able to purchase a set and I got M- drawings from ACS too.

 

I am planning on staying close to the plans as published...

 

5. I'm planning on using a scale for epoxy ratios. From what I've read a pump is nice but I thought this might be a place to save some $$. I know, I know, I'm looking at spending tens of thousands in the coming years, but no sense throwing it away.....we'll see how that pans out.

 

6. Tomorrow I get the lumber to build my worktable, a 4 x 12 footer using I-Joists and plywood and the car starts living outside.

 

Well, that's enough for now. Look forward to posting progress. I'll put together the obligatory web site to document my build and resist the temptation to start an aviation based business

 

 

Larry

Carnardiologist

G'day Larry

 

Just my 2 cents here...

 

5) Get the $265 pump from ACS. If you join EAA (as you should anyway) and get the Visa card you will get a discount. I have been building for just over a year and I use it almost every building day..... I went a year without the digital scale ($20 from Target (Save the TaTa's (Breast Cancer Awareness) Pink).

 

6) I built five of the EAA 100 standard work tables. I bolt them together as I need and level them with a great digital level you can get on Amazon.com for about $45 (about $100 savings put it towards the pump). The super large table will be to big for many parts and in the way.

 

Just my 2 cents .... Oh, you may wish to spend the next three months looking for a Cozy IV project for sale. You will save thousands of dollars and help the other guy free up space in the garage. You may even get them to help you with the build. Most people I know that sell their projects do want to see the plane fly. They often are happy to help with what was their dream come to life. I wish I had done it; now I have about $12,000 invested in what I could have purchased for under $6000.

 

Oh, get that signed agreement with your wife! Big Steve is right. When she comes out and starts to give the significant other opinion of the time investment; you can always point at the agreement. Or better yeat get her involved, cheaper than the lawyers later....

 

Good luck!

 

Jeff

[Big Steve]

Larry welcome to the addiction:

 

Having built 1 3/4 airframes using eze poxy and or safety poxy I highly recommend using a pump. It is worth the money and it will pretty much last forever. When you are done you can sell it to another builder. I build most of my parts by myself and it would take twice as long to measure and weigh all that epoxy on big lay-ups. Others will argue but it would be fun to have a race. Just remember building an airplane is like eating an elephant. take one bite at a time keep at it and it will eventually be done. STeve build on

[TMann]

...... I highly recommend using a pump. It is worth the money and it will pretty much last forever.

Ditto. As a matter of fact, I have two, One for fast hardener and one for slow. With the MGS 335 epoxy you can pump 3 of this and two of that to fit the occasion.

[lhendrick]

Thanks for all the replies and avice:

 

@TMann - I bought a set of first edition plans here on the marketplace so can't help with the total number sold to date. They were already updated with Newsletter changes.

 

@rickh - I agree that 12' x 4' is too wide for table, it was a typo - should have said 12' x 3' wide. Thanks for the catch. I'm hoping my two oil filled 1500 watt radiators will get the garage up to 70 working temp for layups, no problem then heating in a tent for overnight cure. One reason for MGS use is I here it doesn't smell up the place (house is above garage)

 

and I am planning to attend Rough River as I like Kentucky.

 

@JTest - I am waiting for my EAA sponsored Visa card to come in before I place my initial big order.

 

Regarding purchase of someones project, I considered this but I really like to build.

 

@Big Steve - regarding the pump vs scale, it seems to me that pump would be better for someone working every day vs the scale for someone with several days gap between steps since as I understand it (?) you leave the resin and hardener in the pump and leave it all in the heated cabinet. Is this correct?

 

Finally, can anyone advise how may gallons epoxy to order for Chaps 4-7 with enough for some practice and foul ups?

 

Thanks all

 

Larry

Canardiologist in Training

[rickh]

Five gallons should do it, unless you flock up something major.

 

Carbon monoxide doesn't smell either...

 

Rick

[lhendrick]

Thanks. As a matter of fact I have a CO detector in the stairway to the living area and occasionally get a beep when my wife pulls her car in. Plan is to move the cars out to a to-be-built carport next to the house. Good catch. Of course, this gives me a 2 car sized work shop with 2 huge doors to outside, pity:D

[rickh]

Erps, meaning just because the epoxy doesn't smell, doesn't mean it won't harm. A few people have a reaction, and they don't necessarily have to be in the same room. Glass particles, foam dust, ...

 

Rick

[lhendrick]

Oh, that danger. I will have to have my wife hermetically sealed for the build.

[Steve Innova]

Just my 2 cents .... Oh, you may wish to spend the next three months looking for a Cozy IV project for sale. You will save thousands of dollars and help the other guy free up space in the garage. You may even get them to help you with the build. Most people I know that sell their projects do want to see the plane fly. They often are happy to help with what was their dream come to life. I wish I had done it; now I have about $12,000 invested in what I could have purchased for under $6000.

 

To put a plug in... I have a project for sale. $1600 or best offer gets you a fueslage, mostly completed through Chapter 13, plus armrests and other components.

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5320

 

Because I already sold the plans, take $250 off. New price $1350.

[Drew Swenson]

<snip> A year of protracted frustrating instrument training which I will now have to repeat or find a good finishing class (like Marc Z did). Will be joining a flying club out of KHPN to keep skills sharp.<snip>

 

If you understand the concepts, and have freshly completed your inst exam, and need more stick monkey skills---consider taking one of the 10 day emmersion inst courses (simulators and flying everyday for 10 days, baby!).

 

I am south of you in Monmouth, NJ.

[lhendrick]

Yep, that's what I was referring to. I read Marc Zeitlin's account of his total immersion instrument training and it seemed so much more efficient than dragging it out through a traditional school approach. While all the expense gets compressed I believe that it would be a great savings in calendar time and total cost over traditional. I also think the quality of instruction may be better too with a dedicated instructor.

[argoldman]

Yep, that's what I was referring to. I read Marc Zeitlin's account of his total immersion instrument training and it seemed so much more efficient than dragging it out through a traditional school approach. While all the expense gets compressed I believe that it would be a great savings in calendar time and total cost over traditional. I also think the quality of instruction may be better too with a dedicated instructor.

I'm all for immersion training. When I did my instrument training [in the late '60s:irked: ](with the precursor to American Eagle), I flew, only on Saturday's and spent all day Saturday for about 2 months. I got my ticket in 40 hours. 20 hours of it were in actual conditions (which I consider a must). My first solo flight was actual IFR and I felt, and did well (at least I survived).

 

There is one problem with doing it so rapidly, and that is that unless you specifically go for additional dual, you will be flying in only one, or possibly on the cusp of only 2 seasons, with an instructor. In our part of the country we have 4, and if you use your ticket for travel, even though you may, personally, have only one season, you will ultimately be traveling through 4 of them.

 

The gremlins are different in each of the seasons, so if you do immerse, get some additional dual in the other climes.

 

Getting the ticket is just one step in staying safely.

 

Get the ticket and fly safely.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Here's where I am so far:

If you haven't already done so, you should read through all of the COZY newsletters at:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/newsletters/

 

and ALL the corrections to the plans listed there as well, making sure that they're ALL captured in your set of plans.

 

You should join the COZY mailing list by supplying the info requested at:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/mail_list/

 

There are 600 folks on the list, of which over 300 are builders and close to 80 are flyers.

 

You should read the FAQ available at the same page. You can also peruse the archives of mailing list discussion topics.

 

Once you have done these things, you will be in a position to ask intelligent questions about things that haven't already been answered by these information sources, and you will have ensured that you're doing all that's required by the designer. At least then when you decide to change something, you'll understand many of the ramifications of doing so.

[Big Steve]

@Big Steve - regarding the pump vs scale, it seems to me that pump would be better for someone working every day vs the scale for someone with several days gap between steps since as I understand it (?) you leave the resin and hardener in the pump and leave it all in the heated cabinet. Is this correct?

 

I dont understand what you mean every day vs several days gap?? If you dont work on the plane every day it will only be a pile of fiberglass not a plane??

I keep my pump in a insulated box I made out of foam insulation. It has a light bulb and a thermastat. I turn it up before big layups to about 110 degrees I keep it at about 90 degrees the rest of the time. When you do a big layup like the fuselage bottom the sides a shear web or a spar cap you dont stop, you work until you are done.... Even if it takes 12 hours or more. If You want your plane strong and light that is how you do it. You dont do a couple of layers get tired peel ply and come back that is no bweno in my book.

 

You could do what you want with a couple of gallons of epoxy. But if you ever run out you cannot go to Home depot for epoxy!!!!! You always have extra epoxy to build with it stores good in unopened containers kept in the house somewhere warm. I keep 5- 7 gallons on hand all the time in my closet. I have never run out in the middle of a crucial layup.

 

@rickh - I agree that 12' x 4' is too wide for table, it was a typo - should have said 12' x 3' wide. Thanks for the catch. I'm hoping my two oil filled 1500 watt radiators will get the garage up to 70 working temp for layups, no problem then heating in a tent for overnight cure. One reason for MGS use is I here it doesn't smell up the place (house is above garage)

My table is one piece 4' X 12' sometimes it is pretty big but I can work on one side like have a spar jig set up and do other work on the other side of the table for something else I generally work on 3 projects at the same time that way I can be doing something else while epoxy cures. I want a plane someday not a pile of foam and glass. Buying a project is a good Idea if you are building to plans will save a ton of money and time I wish some of these deals were around when I first started. I might build another cozy Iv someday and if I do I am buying a project. Remeber it is an addiction that is why you need the paper on the wall with your wifes signature. STeve build on

[lhendrick]

If you haven't already done so, you should read through all of the COZY newsletters at:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/newsletters/

 

and ALL the corrections to the plans listed there as well, making sure that they're ALL captured in your set of plans.

 

You should join the COZY mailing list by supplying the info requested at:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/mail_list/

 

There are 600 folks on the list, of which over 300 are builders and close to 80 are flyers.

 

You should read the FAQ available at the same page. You can also peruse the archives of mailing list discussion topics.

 

Once you have done these things, you will be in a position to ask intelligent questions about things that haven't already been answered by these information sources, and you will have ensured that you're doing all that's required by the designer. At least then when you decide to change something, you'll understand many of the ramifications of doing so.

Thanks Marc, I am half way through the Newsletters and working at it, and updating my first edition plans with the changes noted. Lots to learn.

[lhendrick]

I dont understand what you mean every day vs several days gap?? If you dont work on the plane every day it will only be a pile of fiberglass not a plane?

 

I can appreciate that, as I am now retired, no kids, working wife and plan to put in many 8+ hour days per week. There is no way I will drag this project out for the number of years I have been reading about, as there are other things I want to accomplish in my life, not the least of which is actually flying. By my reckoning 2500 build time divided by 40 hours per week = 62.5 weeks, so anything more than 1 1/4 years is just wasted time.

 

I haven't made my mind up regarding a pump vs scale, still reading and digesting all those newsletters, mailing lists and all that Marc is making me read before I make an ass of myself here.

[Jack Morrison]

Your schedule is very doable, I built my E Racer in 18 months, from start to first flight. Takes patience, dedicated time and the funds. It gets expensive near the end, engine,avionics, upholstry and paint. Absolutely worth all the effort.

 

Jack

E Racer Extreme

[steve]

Thanks for all the replies and avice:

 

@TMann - I bought a set of first edition plans here on the marketplace so can't help with the total number sold to date. They were already updated with Newsletter changes.

 

@rickh - I agree that 12' x 4' is too wide for table, it was a typo - should have said 12' x 3' wide. Thanks for the catch. I'm hoping my two oil filled 1500 watt radiators will get the garage up to 70 working temp for layups, no problem then heating in a tent for overnight cure. One reason for MGS use is I here it doesn't smell up the place (house is above garage)

 

and I am planning to attend Rough River as I like Kentucky.

 

@JTest - I am waiting for my EAA sponsored Visa card to come in before I place my initial big order.

 

Regarding purchase of someones project, I considered this but I really like to build.

 

@Big Steve - regarding the pump vs scale, it seems to me that pump would be better for someone working every day vs the scale for someone with several days gap between steps since as I understand it (?) you leave the resin and hardener in the pump and leave it all in the heated cabinet. Is this correct?

 

Finally, can anyone advise how may gallons epoxy to order for Chaps 4-7 with enough for some practice and foul ups?

 

Thanks all

 

Larry

Canardiologist in Training

i ordered 2 gal...=1.5 gal