Decision troubles

[mond-EZ]

Hi everyone

My name is Luis, my goal is to build a Varieze, I feel that is right for my right now and I like it better than others designs. So I’m looking for plans. But … in this process I’ve been in touch with Waiter (Iflyez.com) and Tait (Terf.com), and they told me nothing but discouraging things about the Varieze, trying to make me change my mind to the LongEZ, basing their advices on the support, parts availability, performance, superior safety and superior design of the LongEZ.

I find it hard to believe that Varieze is a bad choice, there are a lot of them flying and all the owners seem to be happy.

What can anyone tell me about this?

Thanks a lot

Luis

[ZUCZZ]

Nothing wrong w VariEze from where I stand, but for not much more you could build a LongEze ... which is slightly better and a later design ... and so is the Cozy, which is what I ended up building

 

You just have to do what you have to do ... don't pick anything that you see a lot of them falling out of the sky ... so far so good ...

[Waiter]

Luis;

 

If your heart is set on a VariEZ, I think thats great.

 

You asked me in a private e-mail if you were making the correct choice in building a VariEZ?

 

I indicated to you that you need to also look at a LongEZ, as I had three concerns about the VariEZ:

 

1) As I indicated, the LongEZ will cost about 10% more to build, in both money and time. For this 10% increase in cost and labor, you'll have a substantially improved aircraft.

 

2) The LongEZ is fully supported with both materials and technical support.

 

I also mentioned that I was concerned about parts availability for the VariEZ. in particular the wing attach box assembly. This would be tragic if you started investing time and money into this project, then hit this obstical. Of course, its just a special piece of metal and could be built by most competent machine shops, but at what cost. This could be a show stopper, check into it.

 

3) Depending on what you want in the final product, the LongEZ is larger, offers greater payload, longer range, improved stability and handling, etc.

 

 

Regardless of what aircraft you decide to build. It sounds like your on the right path of asking questions before to take the plunge.

 

Good luck and welcome to the Canard Comunity.

 

Waiter

[macleodm3]

Luis,

Have you seen a Long-EZ? To me, they look Alot like a VariEZ. Same designer, same type construction, I just don't see where there is an issue with choosing a Vari now the the "improved" Long is available.

 

and they told me nothing but discouraging things about the Varieze, trying to make me change my mind to the LongEZ, basing their advices on the support, parts availability, performance, superior safety and superior design of the LongEZ.

 

1.) support - yes, this is important

2.) parts availability - important

3.) superior safety - important

4.) design - important

 

Try not to be discouraged, you have Wonderful choices for building a new airplane. Could you explain what you like about the Vari, that you don't like about a Long-EZ? Maybe that will help determine if the Vari is truly your best bet.

[Kent Ashton]

I don't know why someone would build a Vari unless they are planning to set fuel consumption records or plan to trailer the airplane to the airport a lot. The Long-EZ is no more trouble to build and just slightly more expensive to operate. And the plans are free, here! I vote Long-EZ. There, it's settled.

-Kent

[mond-EZ]

Well… First of all thank you for welcoming me and for all the answers I got,

and, Waiter I’m sorry if maybe I didn’t act the best way in naming you here when actually I talked to you in a private email, I apologize, I just though that maybe here they know you better and would explain your thoughts differently, but finally you did, thanks a lot.

Second, here is my story.

I was trying to get a Falcon XP (I don’t know who of you guys know it, but is a totally different machine, canard pusher but ultra light, very nice for an ultra light, it doesn’t look like a kite) as those are very hard to find, I got tired of waiting and searching the web and started to look at different options. Then, I found Varieze very interesting and by the way a big jump in performance and look, keeping a good feature for someone who find hanger expenses very expensive, this feature is trailer ability.

So, what still pulls me to Varieze is that (trailer), fuel efficiency (very good), size (a vari would perfectly fit in my two car garage with my wife’s SUV), building cost even though is not that much and the fact that some folks out there are buying plans on ebay and building them (will they know all this we are talking about).

But… as every body everywhere says, safety come first and we are not the exception, and before the minimum indication of a safety issue with variezes I will have to make a different decision.

So, I need to find out how serious the wing attach concern is.

I’m open to read what you guys can add to this

Thanks again

[Big Steve]

If you are set on a varieze I have seen several for sale as partially complete to almost complete on the web for sale. The prices are way cheaper than what it would cost you to buy the materials and you could save several years of building. They also have those hard to come by wing attatch parts. You might look into that just bide your time and have cash in your pocket. STeve build on.

[Kent Ashton]

If you expect your wife to fly in the back of a Vari, you ought to find one locally and let her try it out. My wife wouldn't like it although she is pretty happy in the Cozy front seat. Depends on the lady. Some are pretty hardy lasses. Mine is getting old and cranky.

 

As I understand it the wing attach is not a problem if you build it correctly and keep it dry.

 

Ever heard of the Rough River flyin? Tons of canard airplanes show and worth a trip from Texas if you are thinking canards.

-Kent

[Marc Zeitlin]

... Then, I found Varieze very interesting and by the way a big jump in performance and look, keeping a good feature for someone who find hanger expenses very expensive, this feature is trailer ability....

So, I need to find out how serious the wing attach concern is.

You seem to hold the notion that you can trailer the VE to the airport, attach the wings in a short time period, go fly, and then take the wings off in a short time period and trailer it home. This is NOT what will happen, or what the airplane was designed for. I do not know of anyone with a VE that uses it in this fashion. Putting the wings on and off is non-trivial - not really a one person job, and can take an hour, easily. The wing attach hardware was not designed to be used with this frequency - most VE drivers don't remove the wings even for their Condition Inspection, so the attach hardware isn't used even once/year. I think you're making a large mistake in believing that you will save tiedown/hangar costs by having a VE. The LE fits into the same category - if you HAVE to have easily foldable/removable wings to justify owning a plane, neither of these planes is for you. Look at the Glastar or Europa, for well performing 2-seaters with folding/removable wings.

[RGlos]

Mark hit the nail on the head.

 

Forget the trailer and don't worry about hanger fees. See

 

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=817

 

It's been outside since 1986

[Lynn Erickson]

You seem to hold the notion that you can trailer the VE to the airport, attach the wings in a short time period, go fly, and then take the wings off in a short time period and trailer it home. This is NOT what will happen, or what the airplane was designed for. I do not know of anyone with a VE that uses it in this fashion. Putting the wings on and off is non-trivial - not really a one person job, and can take an hour, easily. The wing attach hardware was not designed to be used with this frequency - most VE drivers don't remove the wings even for their Condition Inspection, so the attach hardware isn't used even once/year. I think you're making a large mistake in believing that you will save tiedown/hangar costs by having a VE. The LE fits into the same category - if you HAVE to have easily foldable/removable wings to justify owning a plane, neither of these planes is for you. Look at the Glastar or Europa, for well performing 2-seaters with folding/removable wings.

this is not entirely true the vari ez was designed with trailering in mind and there were some who did this back in the day. Burt did design it to be under the hiway width limit. when Burt first starting selling plans this was talked about at the saturday sales pitch at Mojave. it does take about an hour and a half to get it rigged and ready to fly but it does take some help and three people is best. the aileron and elevator tubes have a slip joint with a clevis pin and cotter pin that is easy to assemble as does the rudder cable. the wing has a male /female joint and tapered bushings and two bolts on each. the canard is held on with two bolts and two alignment pins there was a guy at chino that had all the rigging equipment so he could do it by himself. there was one in Canada that would trailer it to the airport a the start of the summer and leave it at the airport all summer tied down outside and took it home for the winter. the hardware is similar to what some sailplanes use and it done all the time in the glider community. even though it is possible most of the vari owner do not trailer their aircraft. they find having it ready to go at the airport preferable. heres a link for a vari ez trailer for sale. http://www.fri-prod-dev.com/plane/addtnl.html

[Terry]

I ave a set of unused wing fittings and a set of vari-eze wing cores that are surplus to my needs. Make me an offer. I am in Michigan.

Terry

[ErlendM]

Mark hit the nail on the head.

 

Forget the trailer and don't worry about hanger fees. See

 

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=817

 

It's been outside since 1986

How cool - is it this one?

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.991363,-88.1033&spn=0.001358,0.002296&z=19

 

The third plane from the top - in the middle row is a canard and by the picture it looks like it's on the same place.

 

Competition: How many can spot their planes on Google Earth/Google Map?

[RGlos]

How cool - is it this one?

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.991363,-88.1033&spn=0.001358,0.002296&z=19

 

The third plane from the top - in the middle row is a canard and by the picture it looks like it's on the same place.

 

Competition: How many can spot their planes on Google Earth/Google Map?

 

Yes, Thats the one

[mond-EZ]

Rglos

So, that plane has been outside for more than 20 years, that's quite of a durability test, even more for the canopy.

I think I should check the tie down rates in my area.

Luis

[mond-EZ]

Summarizing all this I think I can make a better informed decision.

I should get an already started VE to get the parts availability issue solved and only think about trailering the plane on summer and winter time.

I’m sure that if I had a more comfortable budget I would pick the LE, it’s an amazing airplane.

[mond-EZ]

Hi guys

After what you all have said, I’ve come to the conclusion that a Vari project would be my best option, based on budget and time.

Now I’m in need of your opinions again. I’m looking at a 1981 VE that it’s been in a hard landing in 1994 and then it’s been stored inside for 15 years, a new main gear has been fitted and it has some work done on the nose, (nose gear still the old one), there was no prop strike and the wings did not touch the ground. It has no engine, no instruments.

What do you all think about this? Could it be an easy or a hard one to make it safe to fly again? What should I look for? And, what would it be a fair price to pay?

I’ll appreciate all you can say.

Thank you all very much

Luis

[Lifessamsara]

Hi Mond, and happy New Year.

 

I think that if this aircraft has had a hard landing that has caused enough damage to see the main gear replaced, you should find a local experienced builder/flyer of a Long or Varieze to have a look over the aircraft with you. This way they will be able to look at the critical areas, and also assess repair options if required. Then you can make an informed decision about whether to pursue the project, and a fair market offer to its current owner.

 

I did this when I purchased my Longez remotely (Im in Australia), and it was bloody good advice.

 

If you are not already a member of the Central States Association (CSA) I strongly recommend it as it makes you part of a great information and support community for EZ builders and fliers.

 

All the best with your quest,

 

Bruce.

[mond-EZ]

I’m looking for assistance in the Houston, TX area to look at a Variese for sale that I’m intending to purchase.

Or if nobody is available in the area, I’ll appreciate the best any of you can tell me by looking at the add and pictures I got.

What to look for. Critical areas and how they should look. Opinions on the price.

This is the link to the add

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESSID=108493939743dc38168cfb2e1a6b0848

and these are the pics I got

[mond-EZ]

One more pic

 

Thank you all very much

[TMann]

Are you a member of Central States or a member of your local EAA chapter?

Either of those should provide some local contacts.

 

I don't know how you could go wrong at $3500.00.

With some elbow grease, you could be flying that one to rough river.

 

Some of these guys get real nervous about possible liability and sell their plane as a project vs. a flying aircraft.

 

I would give this a thumbs up. I don't think it will be available for long at that price.

 

I could not get your link to take me to the plane. Anyone looking at this should sear on the term 'VARIEZE' in the quick search and it come up as a 12/20/2008 ad.

[CBarber]

I can't really say I am an expert, but I am in the more final areas of my Velocity w/a 13b rotary build out at Ellington Field. My glass work is all but done and I have been in this build since 2002 (started with some confidance after going to the SportAir composite and electrical workshops (also, the Bob Knuckles workshop which we hosted)

 

I am the past presedent of EAA 12, Houston's EAA chapter. My hangar mate, Richard Sessions is the curent president and is restoring a VariEZ. Our next meeting is this coming Wednesday at 7:00 pm at "Southwest Services" at Ellington Field. You may be able to get Richards number from the Chapter 12 website, www.eaa12.org

 

My cell phone is broken but I should be getting a replacement VERY soon (it drives my S/O nuts to not be able to call me on my leash....uh, cell phone. My leashes number is 832-818-CELL (2355). I am a cop in Bellaire and work til 11:00 pm the next two nights, so if you are near by, flag one of us down and ask for Cpl Barber. I would be pleased to help as I can. Also, I am a lawyer, so I can help with the sale.....or not....too much liability being a lawyer these days <g>. OH, I just noticed you are in Ft Worth (my ex was from there), so I guess you won't be driving by....

 

At $3500 I don't think you can go too wrong. Where is the plane located? As I said, I work in Bellarie, just south of the Galleria but I live in SE near Ellington Field...but, since I have lived in Houston most my years, driving around this huge town is second nature.

 

All the best,

 

Chris:cool:

[Snoopy]

I bought a really nice VariEZ (less instruments) several years ago for $17,000, and am in the process of updating the cockpit and several other mods. I have gone to Oshkosh twice in a VariEZ and a lot of local flying. The VariEZ is a great airplane, but it does have its limitations. Takeoff roll is longer than a LongEZ, the cockpit is somewhat smaller, less storage, etc. Due to its smaller size and high performance wing the VariEZ can generally fly faster than the LongEZ with a smaller engine and less fuel burn. My friends plane would go 220mph with a modified O-200. However, with two 180lb guys, 20lb of baggage each, and full fuel we would not attempt a takeoff in high density altitude conditions.

I highly recommend that you get someone with composite construction experience to look at the airframe you are considering purchasing. I believe Norm James lives somewhere you...he is a VariEz builder with a lot of experience. Looking at the pictures it seems that this plane has had a hard life and the some of the workmanship seems a bit sloppy.

I would also suggest that you spend some time looking at different VariEz and LongEZ and talking to as many builders as possible before you make any decisions....

Best wishes in your quest...

Jim

[Edge 513]

In that overhead satellite photo I liked how that Vari was neatly parked in similar fashion to all the other planes...

Prop and big wing facing forward, little wing with elevators facing backwards...

just like all planes should.

 

The ramp guys are very orderly there!!!

[mond-EZ]

Finally I got no more decision troubles; I got a VariEze project (no engine, no instruments).

Thanks a lot for all your help and especially to Richard Sessions from EAA Chapter 12 Houston, who took the time to go and take a look at this project.