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Posted

Well, this was the worst builder day I have had. That includes the day I realized I had to build a new rotary engine.

 

As the collective from the various list I am on may recall, I have had persistent fuel leak issues. A few weeks ago I had a visit from the fine men of the Ellington/JSC/NASA fire department when I leaked a few gallons on to the hangar floor while I was at home sleeping late. Also, I thought my original clear factory tubes failed due to ethanol. They had turned color and became brittle (turns out they had not YET leaked.

 

I tried sucking new Jeffco into where I thought the leak was (very hard to reach area behind the spar. I found a loose hard point and since I was having some fuel seep through the floor of my cabin I thought maybe the fuel was seeping in behind the hard point into the foam to the cabin floor. Since the two hard points from the strake fuel line were both put in per plans years ago (before my choice to use a rotary, thus auto fuel) they were installed with EZ-84/flox. Since the flox around the loose hard point seemed a bit "off" I decided to redo both of them with Jeffco. At the same time I also took out the factory fuel elbow fittings as mentioned above and installed Vance Atkinson's gages. I did this over the last few days.

 

I thought all was well, but when I added fuel to the right strake only, I still had fuel seeping through the cabin floor. So, I am having fuel leak though the inner foam. I spoke with Velocity, Inc who stated I could either go into the inner skin around the stake storage area or cut a hole in the top of the strake to find the leak. I chose to go into the top of the strake as I thought it would be better to not try to patch a leak from the outside. So, I cut a hole in the strake to apply Jeffco to try to find/cure the leak.

 

EEEEEEAAAAAKKKKK. I opened up the top right strake and the Jeffco on the top of the strake was sitting in the bottom of the tank. OMG!!!!. Almost all the Jeffco from the top of the strake had fallen off. It was all flaky and not adhering. Also, a number of places from the sides and bottom had also fallen off.

 

I called Velocity, Inc and they said they had never had this issue before. They suggested I look in the other stake to see if the problem was there too. We discussed when I applied it and how. Now guys and gals, I am not a complete incompetent. I know I sanded stakes before I applied the Jeffco, I mixed it well and per instructions. Also, the top strake Jeffco was applied at a different time/batch from the sides/bottom. The Velocity top strake is a pre-built piece and is laid on the strake sides/bottom in a separate step and the Jeffco is applied to the top before you seal it, then you seal it with more Jeffco.

 

I have never had more than about 20 gallons of fuel in the system (about 60 total capacity). I have had the fuel sit in the strakes for a long while though. I used the Jeffco since it is supposed to be more resistant to fuels like diesel and auto, even with ethanol...at least that was my understanding. Some ares of the strakes seem pretty good (but I don't trust any of it now). I did get TWO, one gallon kits of Jeffco back when I did this part of the build. My first thought is that perhaps one of the buckets was a bad batch. Donno.

 

I did cut into the pilot strake too. It was not as bad. The top of the strake looks good, but I do have some flaking on the sides. There are four compartments in each strake. I cut into one on the co-pilot side, and three on the pilot side so far. One on the pilot side seems perfect (so far). The inconsistency has me confused currently. But to be honest, after dealing with this for a while and trying to be philosophical about it...such as I would much rather find it now, I walked away and worked on re-attaching my ailerons after balancing them.

 

I am posting the pix on the Canardzone but I am posting this message on a few sites like FlyRotary and the Velocity Builders site. The factory asked me to post too so they could have a look and determine if this may be a isolated incident (such as me missing something) OR if it could be a bigger problem. Well, here are some of the pix I took....if they are blurry, don't worry, it is only my tears......

 

All the best,

 

Chris

Christopher Barber

Velocity SE/FG w/yoke. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

www.LoneStarVelocity.com

 

Live with Passion...

Posted

More...yeah, it looks really sad all cut up like that. <SIGH>

 

Also, on a wild hair, when I made my sump tank, I painted it with Jeffco. The Jeffco on the sump is fine....donno about how the Jeffco in the sump is. FWIW.

post-306-141090163425_thumb.jpg

post-306-141090163427_thumb.jpg

post-306-14109016343_thumb.jpg

post-306-141090163432_thumb.jpg

Christopher Barber

Velocity SE/FG w/yoke. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

www.LoneStarVelocity.com

 

Live with Passion...

Posted

Well, this was the worst builder day I have had....

EEEEEEAAAAAKKKKK. I opened up the top right strake and the Jeffco on the top of the strake was sitting in the bottom of the tank. OMG!!!!. Almost all the Jeffco from the top of the strake had fallen off.

I hate to pile on to what is obviously a bad situation from the Jeffco adherence issue, but you've got another, possibly as bad or worse situation, judging from your photo #3 (the one that's almost all white (grey) ).

 

It looks to me as though the flox that you piled onto the top of the strake ribs to form the attachment to the strake top is barely touching the strake top in many places. It looks as though you used the plans methodology, rather than the more robust "T-hat" method, and that either not enough flox was used, or that not enough weight/pressure was applied to the strake top when it was installed.

 

Personally, I'd be at least as worried about the strake top attachment (from a structural and leak standpoint) as I would be about the Jeffco. If it's not adhered on the ribs, how well is it adhered to the spar?

 

Good luck with both of these issues.

Posted

how did the glass look under the top skin ? did it shine a little or was it dull?

is there any spots the flaked off that was dull (like it was just sanded ?)

it it all the same thikness ? or some thin and some thick (ie the thin failed and the thick worked) was the epoxy dry all the way befor the jeffco or was it fresh as in it could have moved and or glossed off ??

more tips plz

sorry to here this.

you wanted to look in side any way:o and so did i:bad:

Steve M. Parkins

Posted

like mark said....

will you let us know if you get some help from out side this forum.

perhaps jefco has some words? or the rotto heads?

thanks for letting us sheir in your grif :sad:

my boss fell today and needs a tube in his lung and will be out for a wile

hope that helps you feel better:rolleyes:

hows the mazda run ?

Steve M. Parkins

Posted

Actually, I did do a modified "T" hat install. I just did it as more of a half-T...or inverted "L" version. Its lip is on the opposite side of the picture and does bond all the way. The fiberglass "L" used with my install was very springy upward and shoved right up to the top of the strake. I did a "pre-bond with flox laid on thick onto the duct-taped top strake first, removed the top strake, repeated once, then finally bonded the top on without duct tape/release agent. The part you can see was on the extreme edge away from the "L" and was actually bonded well through. The L provided a small channel between the bulkheads and the "L" and most of my flox went along this channel so as to give is a stable platform.

 

That being said, I don't trust any of it now.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

Christopher Barber

Velocity SE/FG w/yoke. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

www.LoneStarVelocity.com

 

Live with Passion...

Posted

Brrrr, that's ugly! In a Cozy or EZ it wouldn't be that hard to saw away the strakes and build new ones. In a week of hard work you would have them back on, clean and pristine.

 

I don't know if that'd be practical on the Velocity but it doesn't sound much harder than scraping, cleaning and repairing your existing tanks. Something to consider. It might also work to remove more of the tops and take a sandblaster to the opened tanks. Good luck with it.

-Kent

-Kent
Cozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold

Posted

I have been told Jeffco does not bond well with some epoxy and the area must be absolutly free of any contaminates. I am sorry for your situation. If it were me I would bite the bullet and redo the strakes. Lots of work, but all that peeling Jeffco would be scary as a fuel line contaminate never mind resealing. This is straight out of the repair section for condition inspection:

 

3.3 Fuel Tanks

 

3.3.1 Fuel Leaks

 

Fuel tanks are integral to the airframe structure. Resin is applied liberally during the construction process to seal the inside of the tanks. However, once in a great while, someone will discover a leak. Strangely at first, the leak may propagate well away from the tank walls before the fuel finds itself visible to the owner. Capillary action can make the leak propagate to far away places, and even appear in the nose of the plane. You’ll ask, “What is causing that? There’s no fuel up there.”

 

One technique for diagnosis is to partially fill the leaking tank. Then tilt the fuselage at various angles and leave it alone for several hours to see if the leak appears at the exit point. This will take days to find the source of the leak, but it has shown to be effective.

 

And now the repair process. Of course, you will need access to the suspected area, whether it’s on the fuselage side surface or somewhere else on the tank surface. There went the paint job. And you will need to learn how to repair composite structures to finish the job.

 

Don't try to adhere Vinyl Ester resins to Epoxy resins. Although both are fuel resistant, resins bond best to themselves but not so well to each other.

 

Once the tank has been soaked in fuel, it is difficult to get most things to bond to the inner surfaces, even after sanding and abrading.

 

Recommend you buy some Pro-Seal - fuel tank sealant as used in aluminum tanks. This product has been specifically formulated for doing just what you want it to do, i.e. seal leaks.

 

It bonds extremely well and remain flexible yet fuel resistant. It comes in two grades, one grade is rather viscous and gooey to be daubed or troweled into place with an applicator stick. The other is brushable, and intended to be used to line the entire inside of the fuel tank. Take your pick based on what you want to do.

 

They are both about $40 - You will only need small portion, so don't plan on mixing up the whole container. You might look around for some RV builder that may have some left over from sealing his tanks. Or, you can sell him your leftovers.

 

First, remove all the garbage from previous attempts to seal the leak first. Scrape it, sand it, grind it, whatever, get rid of it.

 

As mentioned, the tank inter-skin is fuel soaked. It is highly recommend you find some way to allow it to dry out for day or two. This is especially important for the area you found is leaking. Any fuel weeping from the leak area will definitely keep anything from sticking -especially if was mogas.

 

Apply a heat lamp, from a distance or even just a 40-watt light bulb to warm up the surfaces and drive out any residual fuel. Don’t let it get too hot, no more than about 140F. As a rule of thumb, (perhaps hand) if you can hold your hand flat on the hot surface to the count of ten, the temperature is below 140F.

 

Allow it to cool back down before applying the Pro-Seal. That should do it.

 

Gary Hunter

EAA Technical Counselor

 

Heavy epoxy with pro seal might do the trick after the top skin is reset. I am not much help but thought I would pass this info. Good Luck.

Posted

Second picture, post number 3.

 

That looks like more than just pealing. It looks like paint after stripper has been applied i.e. chemical reaction. It looks shriveled up and not just flaked off.

 

At this point what do you trust? Good judgement and common sense should be your guide.

 

Take a piece of the cutout area, sand it down and appy epoxy over it to see if it holds. This may test to see if the gas or something in the gas has left something on the epoxy which prevents further adhesion.

Posted

BIG BUMMER.

Mind boggling Chris. VERY, VERY sad to see what happened to you here. One positive is you didnt get off the ground somewhere and find yourself with a small chunk clogging your line without enough altitude to get down safely. If there is even a SMALL decomposing of this Jeffco stuff, it might lead to a clog.

So...best to you in your decision. IMO, I would remove all the tops, and soda blast the interiors. The 'sump' has got to be done too...

 

FWIW, I was helping another builder build his strakes 2 weekends ago, and we were just talking about coating the insides of the fuel cells. We had concluded that if a couple thousand of EZ type planes had ben built with only the plans epoxy wipe method..why use the heavier Jeffco? Your dismaying situation has just added fuel to our argument. We had thought Jeffco was just another ''improvement'' that adds weight to the plane. I hope a bunch of guys get out a flashlight and a mirror and check what they can on their Jeffco coated fuel cells...I hope. regretfully, yours is the only one.

Anyway,

Good luck.

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

Posted

Even more pix.

Did I mention this really sucks <g>

Arrrghh... say it ain't so, Chris!! Thanks for flagging the issue for fellow Jeffco users.

 

The last pic ('pile of bad day on the floor') looks like the Jeffco that peeled off is brown on the back side. Did it take a thin layer of epoxy with it?

 

Best of luck with the repair. Keep us posted!

 

D

Posted

Not sure yet, but it appears it may have. A couple of folks have noted the brown on the back of the flaked Jeffco. The top of the right strake is the wose. I will compare what the stuff that flaked off there to what has peeled/flaked off in areas where genarl adheasion is better. I did clean the prefabbed strake tops with alcohol before I applied the Jeffco and sanded them. However, if there was a problem with a prefabbed unit being contaminated, that does not answer what happened to the bulkheads that I created from scratch. I wishe it were that easy.

Christopher Barber

Velocity SE/FG w/yoke. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

www.LoneStarVelocity.com

 

Live with Passion...

Posted

Very sorry to see this happen. Maybe you can send some samples to Jeffco and Velocity and have them do some analysis. This is a very dangerous situation that needs to be understood. Please keep us posted and best of luck to you in getting it repaired. Hopefully this will soon just be a bad memory.

Phil Kriley

Cozy #1460

Chapter 13 - nose

Right wing done - working on right winglet.

Posted

Chris,

 

I too am sorry about your having to live through this problem. I am concerned, also, since my tanks are Jeffcoed.

 

Did you spray or paint the Jeffco?

 

How long after you alcoholed the surfaces did you apply the Jeffco?

 

What kind of fuel was in the tanks?

 

What did your fuel filter look like. ie were the "chunks" large enough to have been stopped by the in-tank strainer, or were there chunklets that found their way to the sump and filter?

 

Again, my sympathies. With a little surgery you will be up and running again.

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

Posted

I painted in the Jeffco.

 

Not sure how long after I cleaned the surface with denatured alcohal I applied the Jeffco, but I am assuming it was contemperaniously with the application. So, likley within 20 minutes or so, but I am not certain. Also, seems it was really hot...and humid....shocking for Houston. I need to review my webpage and see if it refreshes my memory.

 

Auto fuel, 87 octane was in the tanks. A label on the pump states "up to 10% ethanal." I don't think I have ever had more than about 20 gallons in the tank, but it has set in the tanks for a while.

 

I had just replaced the hardpoints for the fuel flow since they were originally installed with EZ-84/flox and I found one loose. Also, the flox seemed a bit chalky where it was loose. I thought this was the source of my leak into the cabin floor. Since the hardpoints on both sides were installed the same way, I replaced both of them using Jeffco to ward off fuel contaminant issues. This was done this last week and ws one of the issue that led to my discovery. I am mentioning this again since I had just removed the finger strainers from the tank and they had NO clogging. I am guessing that this may be due to the flakes floating on the surface. This is pure speculation though.

 

I have not been back out to the hangar but when I return I am gonna open up the rest of the strakes (ugh) and see about genral adheasion. I am curious about the brown on the back of the pieces that have flaked off. I am also speaking with my hangar mate about sand blasting to remove the old Jeffco. He did this with success with the VariEZ he is restoring to remove old filler/epoxy.

 

NOW, I would love to hear opinions concering what I should use to seal the tank once I clean up the mess. Jeffco may not in any way be the problem. Same for Ethanal. It could be a builder error or a wiered anomoly. I just don't want to do it again, again.

 

Gary Hunter, the glass guru, piped up on another list and stated that Jeffco went bankrupt last year and its founder is now working for a company in San Antonio. However, Jeffco still seems available, according to the AS&S website. Don't know if the formual was sold off or just reserved stock (it is kinda pricey). Gary mentioned in a tech cousellor report someone posted that Pro-seal has been used in fiberglass tanks as well. I thought this was for AL since all the RV guys seem to use it. I donno.

 

Insight, comment, opinion or just smart ass remarks are solicited and appreciated. Thanks.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

Christopher Barber

Velocity SE/FG w/yoke. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

www.LoneStarVelocity.com

 

Live with Passion...

Posted

I don't think 'bummer dude' even comes close. I am glad your found out now instead of 200AGL over the barbed wire fence though, real glad.

 

By the time I'm ready to fly, I anticipate AVgas may be in short supply so I'm planning on an alternate fuel. At the very least, planning on being able to carry alternate fuels. That said, the following is a bit factual, a bit anecdotal, with a smidgen of opinion tossed in. Read: Cover my butt :)

 

My understanding is any epoxy based coating is not 100% resistant to alcohol. Confirmed by an e-mail from a Pro-Set engineer. Epoxy works fine for a few days, but alcohol in the fuel softens epoxy formulations over time.

 

I have no idea what/how Jeffco is made.

 

Methanol makes some nasty crud if left in the heat. Read: old gas. I don't know about ethanol, other than with Coke over ice.

 

POR-15 is the cats PJ's for sealing up pinhole leaks (rust throughs) in automotive and motorcycle tanks. It's a one part slosh coating. Long term longevity (20 years say) unknown, but it appears intact after five years. Same for a product called Kreem.

 

I'm investigating a top/final coating of vinyl-ester resin in my fuel areas. Either a simple brush/squeegee coat, or used with a thin (2oz?) veil of cloth. It's my understanding some formulation(s) of vinyl-ester are used in underground fuel storage tanks. Compatibility with epoxy/cloth layups unknown (peel strength, delam, scuff to bond, if it'll bond, ...). And there's different formulations of vinyl-ester too, some are made to be chemically resistant.

 

I stumbled across a KR builders website (so you know it's factual ;) ), he'd placed various test coupons in bottles of 10% ETOH, pure premium grade mogas, and 100% ETOH for extended periods. Excellent results, but he didn't really 'stress' test the coupons in solution. Like in the sun, under flex, nicked coating, ...

 

So, I dunnow...

 

Rick

Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.
Posted

Chris,

 

Before I would reapply Jeffco, I would sure want to find out what the bonding problem was, so that I didn't have the same result.

 

If you supply some epoxy-type chemical laboratory with some of the flakes, and possibly a small section (layup only) of one of the baffles from which a flake came, it would seem that an analysis would be of great help in deciding what to do. Velocity may be able to help you there.

 

I do have a question.

 

I know that you can bond epoxy to vinylester or is it vinylester to epoxy with no problem, but do the reverse and there is no bond. ( I can't remember which order is the only correct one.)

 

Vinylester has been used successfully for fuel tanks (as a matter of fact, most of the modern below ground fuel tanks at service? stations are of this material.) Is it possible that Velocity made their fuel tank area with the vinylester material to be more fuel resistant (or put a vinylester coating over it for the same reason) and that your putting the jeffco (epoxy) on top of that (assuming that you can't get a good bond with epoxy over cured v-ester) is one of the reasons for the flaky delam?

 

Just a thought from someone who can't remember which goes first the chicken or the epoxy.

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

Posted

I painted in the Jeffco.

 

Not sure how long after I cleaned the surface with denatured alcohal I applied the Jeffco, but I am assuming it was contemperaniously with the application. So, likley within 20 minutes or so, but I am not certain. Also, seems it was really hot...and humid....shocking for Houston. I need to review my webpage and see if it refreshes my memory.

 

Auto fuel, 87 octane was in the tanks. A label on the pump states "up to 10% ethanal." I don't think I have ever had more than about 20 gallons in the tank, but it has set in the tanks for a while.

 

I had just replaced the hardpoints for the fuel flow since they were originally installed with EZ-84/flox and I found one loose. Also, the flox seemed a bit chalky where it was loose. I thought this was the source of my leak into the cabin floor. Since the hardpoints on both sides were installed the same way, I replaced both of them using Jeffco to ward off fuel contaminant issues. This was done this last week and ws one of the issue that led to my discovery. I am mentioning this again since I had just removed the finger strainers from the tank and they had NO clogging. I am guessing that this may be due to the flakes floating on the surface. This is pure speculation though.

 

I have not been back out to the hangar but when I return I am gonna open up the rest of the strakes (ugh) and see about genral adheasion. I am curious about the brown on the back of the pieces that have flaked off. I am also speaking with my hangar mate about sand blasting to remove the old Jeffco. He did this with success with the VariEZ he is restoring to remove old filler/epoxy.

 

NOW, I would love to hear opinions concering what I should use to seal the tank once I clean up the mess. Jeffco may not in any way be the problem. Same for Ethanal. It could be a builder error or a wiered anomoly. I just don't want to do it again, again.

 

Gary Hunter, the glass guru, piped up on another list and stated that Jeffco went bankrupt last year and its founder is now working for a company in San Antonio. However, Jeffco still seems available, according to the AS&S website. Don't know if the formual was sold off or just reserved stock (it is kinda pricey). Gary mentioned in a tech cousellor report someone posted that Pro-seal has been used in fiberglass tanks as well. I thought this was for AL since all the RV guys seem to use it. I donno.

 

Insight, comment, opinion or just smart ass remarks are solicited and appreciated. Thanks.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

Sorry to see you have to go through this problem.

Heres my take on the problem. if the fuel tank structural material will be affected by the fuel that you are using in the tank then any coating that you could put on the tank surface will be a potential problem. if you coat the tank with a material that is designed to seal the tank all it takes is one pin hole or one little chip and the entire structure is in danger of being destroyed.

I have seen this problem with jeffco before. I have seen the same problem with pro seal. I have seen the same problem when ez poxy that was applied on a cured ez poxy surface and the surface was not sanded well enough. I believe it is surface preparation that causes the peeling. it also seems to effect the top more as it is the vapors that do the most damage. every time I have seen a tank that has been coated to fix a leak it has not worked. we always end up going into the tank and fixing the leak the old fashion way.

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

Posted

Pro Seal is an epoxy...industrial type. The military uses it for all kinds of aviation repairs from sealing composite tip caps on rotor craft to pressurized cabin. It has amazing adheasion properties and you can mix it hot if you need a quick repair. I am pretty sure it will stick to any other epoxy. Shoot Gary an e-mail and he can clarify. It will absolutley seal a pin hole leak ( if you can find it as Lynn pointed out). I know Jeffco is all the rage, but if it were me I would stick with the straight epoxy to seal the tank. Many Longs have been flying for almost 30 years with AVGAS and the original wet application still des not leak. I thought Jeffco was originally an automotive product so the Ethonal should have no effect on it. Gary states in his tech advisory that any repairs must be completely dry before applying any sealants. Burt Rutan in the long easy manual states a liberal wet coat of EZ-poxy...He designed the original tank used in all these variants so I would stick with his method. Does the Velo plan call for Jeffco? Have you posted anything on the AS&S forum? Was the plane ever stored in a storage room where the finished strakes could have really temped out? Epoxy will decure and become plyable if the critical temp is exceeded...hence the white paint jobs. Good luck. A minor set back for what surely will be an awesome airplane. Sully

Posted

Sorry to hear of your problem. I used the Jeffco sealant on my Stallion which held 230 gallons in its wings. I know that because I walked up a ladder 6X with a 5 gallon can to fill and calibrate the fuel sensors. Yes that is over 250 trips up the ladder! Either I was stupid or dedicated.

 

My Stallion had carbon fiber wing skins but lots of fiberglass in ribs and gussets and the spar web and I had no leaks or other problems. Getting to your situation, I was told by some of the "old dogs" who had used Jeffco that it was important to apply while the ambient temperature was falling to prevent air in pinholes from expanding and causing problems with bonding. I followed this suggestion and applied in the late afternoon and we had very few pinholes and this is for a 140 ft. sq. wing.

 

It could be that you had significant outgassing of the pinholes which lifted the Jeffco just enough in enough places to cause later damage.

Posted

> Also, seems it was really hot...and humid....shocking for Houston.

 

Don't work with epoxies when the relative humidity is over 65%. A hygrometer is a must have item in every epoxy shop!

I (and others) have mixed feelings about solvent wipes, too. Depending on the type of contamination these wipes might just spread the contamination around even more. Rags exposed to fabric conditioners, room heaters, compressed air etc. are all sources of contaminants which might affect the epoxy bond.

 

> Epoxy works fine for a few days, but alcohol in the fuel softens epoxy formulations over time.

> I have no idea what/how Jeffco is made.

> Pro-seal has been used in fiberglass tanks as well

 

There are no wonder epoxies, they all work according to the same principles, most have substantial similar lists of ingredients anyway and many of them are pretty fuel resistant (especially the cheaper, higher viscosity non-laminating resins without added reactive diluents).

 

> I'm investigating a top/final coating of vinyl-ester resin in my fuel areas.

> Compatibility with epoxy/cloth layups unknown

 

Epoxy adheres well to polyester and vinylester, but adhesion of these resins to cured epoxy is poor.

Posted

Uh, humidity below 65%????? Have you ever been near Houston???? We MAY get ten of those. I will try to plan accordinly.:rolleyes:

 

Houston, Texas...Home of drinkable air.

 

Thanks for the insight though.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

Christopher Barber

Velocity SE/FG w/yoke. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

www.LoneStarVelocity.com

 

Live with Passion...

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