SULLY_H60

Any new updates Wayne??

Sorry about the "Biff" thing...I could edit it to "Skippy":)

This post should be renamed "Battle of the rocket science engineers":-) A good read. Arbiter: You keep talking about structure...A good start is a book you can get on E-Bay for around 8 bucks. "The complete guide to Rutan Aircraft" gives a great history on the development of all Rutan designs and all the structural testing that has been completed. The derivatives do not change the basic construction and design; hence the basic "Structure" (G load, etc) has been tested! I am sure Piper and Cessna would agree with you that experimental aircraft should be type certified, that way a Cozy would be on par with a Baron or Cherokee at around a bazillion bucks to the average Joe. I appreciate your input, but you sound more like a lobbyist for certified aircraft than experimental. Marc: It is time for me to do battle with your witts! ..... ..... .....(my head hurts)..... ....(I give up) .... Marc is a smart MOFO and sometimes it takes people a while to get used to his style. Arbiter do yourself a favor and realize that Marc is doing a lot for the community and has his own wiki in his head and if I were going to try something new or different with a design I would pay good money for his consulting and I must add he offers at no cost to most people (whom he likes) and readily offers advice on this and other forums. I am a career pilot in the military and I am a pretty competent aviator, combat tested and proven and if there is one thing I have learned...Engineers are an extremely good bunch and if they tell me the seat will stroke and absorb 10 G's, I say "Roger that". And if I say I got this feedback in the controls after taking rounds, they usually say "We can re-engineer it and make it better and stronger and still shave 2.6 lbs. off" I did get a kick out of both of your post. But on this issue I must say to Marc "Roger that"

Wow, look at that airport on Google maps and it is no wonder. It is so built up on the departure and arrival ends of the runways that it is surprising they don't have more tragic accidents. Poor planning by the city. 5000 foot strips, 130 degree temps, recip aircraft...what are they thinking. The airport commisioner should spend less time berating experimental aircraft and more time reviewing TERPs. I wonder if the "Bubble headed bleach blonde" that comes on at 5 will run an op-ed with her side kick "Biff" on how dangerous twin engine factory built aircraft are. It is unfortunate and that area has clearly outgrown that airport.

Pro Seal is an epoxy...industrial type. The military uses it for all kinds of aviation repairs from sealing composite tip caps on rotor craft to pressurized cabin. It has amazing adheasion properties and you can mix it hot if you need a quick repair. I am pretty sure it will stick to any other epoxy. Shoot Gary an e-mail and he can clarify. It will absolutley seal a pin hole leak ( if you can find it as Lynn pointed out). I know Jeffco is all the rage, but if it were me I would stick with the straight epoxy to seal the tank. Many Longs have been flying for almost 30 years with AVGAS and the original wet application still des not leak. I thought Jeffco was originally an automotive product so the Ethonal should have no effect on it. Gary states in his tech advisory that any repairs must be completely dry before applying any sealants. Burt Rutan in the long easy manual states a liberal wet coat of EZ-poxy...He designed the original tank used in all these variants so I would stick with his method. Does the Velo plan call for Jeffco? Have you posted anything on the AS&S forum? Was the plane ever stored in a storage room where the finished strakes could have really temped out? Epoxy will decure and become plyable if the critical temp is exceeded...hence the white paint jobs. Good luck. A minor set back for what surely will be an awesome airplane. Sully

I have been told Jeffco does not bond well with some epoxy and the area must be absolutly free of any contaminates. I am sorry for your situation. If it were me I would bite the bullet and redo the strakes. Lots of work, but all that peeling Jeffco would be scary as a fuel line contaminate never mind resealing. This is straight out of the repair section for condition inspection: 3.3 Fuel Tanks 3.3.1 Fuel Leaks Fuel tanks are integral to the airframe structure. Resin is applied liberally during the construction process to seal the inside of the tanks. However, once in a great while, someone will discover a leak. Strangely at first, the leak may propagate well away from the tank walls before the fuel finds itself visible to the owner. Capillary action can make the leak propagate to far away places, and even appear in the nose of the plane. You’ll ask, “What is causing that? There’s no fuel up there.” One technique for diagnosis is to partially fill the leaking tank. Then tilt the fuselage at various angles and leave it alone for several hours to see if the leak appears at the exit point. This will take days to find the source of the leak, but it has shown to be effective. And now the repair process. Of course, you will need access to the suspected area, whether it’s on the fuselage side surface or somewhere else on the tank surface. There went the paint job. And you will need to learn how to repair composite structures to finish the job. Don't try to adhere Vinyl Ester resins to Epoxy resins. Although both are fuel resistant, resins bond best to themselves but not so well to each other. Once the tank has been soaked in fuel, it is difficult to get most things to bond to the inner surfaces, even after sanding and abrading. Recommend you buy some Pro-Seal - fuel tank sealant as used in aluminum tanks. This product has been specifically formulated for doing just what you want it to do, i.e. seal leaks. It bonds extremely well and remain flexible yet fuel resistant. It comes in two grades, one grade is rather viscous and gooey to be daubed or troweled into place with an applicator stick. The other is brushable, and intended to be used to line the entire inside of the fuel tank. Take your pick based on what you want to do. They are both about $40 - You will only need small portion, so don't plan on mixing up the whole container. You might look around for some RV builder that may have some left over from sealing his tanks. Or, you can sell him your leftovers. First, remove all the garbage from previous attempts to seal the leak first. Scrape it, sand it, grind it, whatever, get rid of it. As mentioned, the tank inter-skin is fuel soaked. It is highly recommend you find some way to allow it to dry out for day or two. This is especially important for the area you found is leaking. Any fuel weeping from the leak area will definitely keep anything from sticking -especially if was mogas. Apply a heat lamp, from a distance or even just a 40-watt light bulb to warm up the surfaces and drive out any residual fuel. Don’t let it get too hot, no more than about 140F. As a rule of thumb, (perhaps hand) if you can hold your hand flat on the hot surface to the count of ten, the temperature is below 140F. Allow it to cool back down before applying the Pro-Seal. That should do it. Gary Hunter EAA Technical Counselor Heavy epoxy with pro seal might do the trick after the top skin is reset. I am not much help but thought I would pass this info. Good Luck.

That is wacked! Sad too!

An easy solution to the Roncz canard issue is to use the TERF CD for the plans and Eureka CNC for the core. His cores are excellent and cost $200 for the Long EZ. His website talks about the subtle differences between the Long and Cozy canard. http://www.eurekacnc.com/Home.htm The GU has always exhibited flow seperation with leading edge contamination, bugs, rain etc. The vortelons correct some perfectly and others not so much. Building the Roncz with Eureka cores will give you and education in the build process and with a request also probably get an experienced builder to help you along. If the GU pitches enough to scare you in light rain, do yourself a favour and build the Roncz for the experience and the peice of mind. Good luck! PM me if you are having trouble locating the Roncz plans and I will see if I can point you in the right direction. There was talk about posting them on the Open EZ area as well. Peace!

Chairboy, say what you want...we don't see eye to eye on this one and I do not want it to be personal...I just can't see the relevance of posting the guys address on a forum, even if it is a matter of public record. I am sure the NTSB is on top of it, there will not be a preliminary for at least a week and nothing factual for some time. Your UK pool story is out in left field and yes there are professional trolls who scour the internet for information to use for ill purpose all the time. Either way the cause of this mishap on a heavily modified airframe should not halt your build. Good luck. No hard feelings.

Here is my first go details on the link below http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4874

God Bless the crew and God speed to the SQD.

Hey guys, just my opinion, but from one who has to deal with aviation fatalities within the job, querying about a mishap is one thing, but posting names and addresses and personal info is just wrong and slightly inconsiderate. I know the info is available online if you know where to query it but that does not make it right. It feeds the scoundrels who scroll the net to take advantage of others misfortune. Please have some consideration for the family members and let them be informed by the proper authorities or loved ones instead of the internet. I don't want to seem like a buzz kill but come on. My 2 cents. Peace:confused:

That is funny...SUMIE I get,,,the others you will need to elaborate on. I agree that a pilot needs to be very proficient to play with hard minimums in GA aircraft. I fly for a living and in the Army we can shoot the approach regardless of the vis and cielings...fact of the matter is you break out well above minimums most of the time...I think if you are proficient enough to fly instruments in a 172 then a canard would be no different. In military flying the three things disliked most about flying are 1. Getting shot up 2. Thunderstorms 3. ICE You don't see 1 in the US (unless your flying next to a United heavy while the FO is showing off his new TSA approved pistol) Thunderstorms can be dealt with if you can get high enough to navigate around them ( never try to go over one ) and ATC is good about helping you stay out of the heavy precip. If you are IMC at the time you had better have good color weather radar and a storm scope. In a small GA or Experimental aircraft you should just avoid them period and never try to take off ahead of one. Also have a good understanding of Isolated -V- a line...you can't navigate around a line...even in the great state of Georgia:cool: Trace ice on a canard would probably not cause LFS over the cord and you could probably get out of it fine as NASA studies have shown little change with trace. I myself won't be flying a long IFR if icing is forcast period. In my experiance when they usually say trace it is light and when they say light it is moderate. My Go criterea is a check in the NONE block under icing when it comes to light GA/Experimental. Google Nasa+ICE and you will see some very good videos that will convince you a canard like a duck should avoid ice. The RV story is funny and just goes to show you...just because one owns an airplane and has a liscence does not mean they should be flying. Stupid move on thier part...there is a reason why they are called sucker holes... Peace

Waiter let me know when you want to offload the accessories you are upgrading if you want to sell...what type 320 are you running?

Thank you for the encouragement. Another cool feature is the VGA out. This can plug into an automobile 7 inch LCD and display everything for the GIB. They can't manipulate it, but will see everything the front seater has up and that is way cool and very affordable for a second display! Blue MAX...it has been a while...although I do follow your progress on your web page! Your progress is amazing...only surpassed by your undying enthusiasm:cool: ! Cozy Girrrl...will you be selling the same Pitot tube you made for your Cozy?? Just a thought:confused: . Thanks again, Sully

PM Wiater as he has a lot of experience flying in the winter time in his Long. Do you have an instrument ticket? If you want it for commuting to work you will need to have a solid back up plan for days when WX is below mins for IFR.

In a word...yes. If you equip it properly you have plenty of panel space. There are hundreds of IFR equipped Long EZ aircraft...many on this very forum. I believe Waiter has an IFR package in his in addition to his glass upgrade. My stab at an IFR panel is on this forum as well: http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4874 It may cost a few extra bucks to locate 2-1/4" standby instruments, but that is the way to go. Most of the EFIS packages with an HSI take NAV radio inputs so they have tremendous IFR capability. At a minimum I would recommend a 4 pack of standby instruments to do a let down out of the soup if the primary fails. It also depends on the kind of IFR you want to fly. If hard IMC with any ice at all then you may want to consider an aircraft with anti/de-ice capes to get you out of it. My long will be IFR capable to primarily get me on top and shoot the occasional ILS to minimums in warm air as well as maintain instrument proficiency when Uncle Sam stops paying for my fuel. Hope this helps. I have seen a number of EZ aircraft better equipped than most warriors or 152/172s. Equipping it to file and fly IFR is not a stretch. Like any non-ice capable airplane, the level and conditions of IMC you go into is limiting and requires risk mitigation measures and solid GO/NOGO criteria for what you are willing to launch in. To refer to IFR equipped Long EZ pilots as posers is indicative of not understanding their personal needs or goals for the flight profiles they choose to operate in and is ...well... just a tad rude.

image 6 as per the limit

Let me first start off with the cave I have been in for the last 6 months. I moved to D.C. in November and received many warm replies to my question about D.C. area flyers and I am now ready to start networking and taking you guys up on all the gracious offers for rides and to check out your projects. I went to the Army fixed wing course last summer after not having touched an airplane since 1989. I am a very solid helo pilot after 14 years in various models of the H-60 but the 20 hours in a C-182 and then the complexities of the C-12 (super King Air) were fun and challenging. After getting posted to Fort Belvoir in Virginia I basically immersed myself in the King Air to get up as a Pilot in Command as quickly as possible. These are not your average King Airs as the military equips them on par with a heavy in the avionics side (Duel Collins FMS3000, all glass, nice Color WX Radar, TCASII, AP and the list goes on. I got signed off as a PIC in April and after much National and some International flying I can now refocus on the EZ. So I will be in touch guys! And thanks for the patience. On to the panel! I came across a smoking deal on a BM EFIS ONE GEN3 recently checked and certified okay by BMA and picked it up for a song ($1800). I was not sure if I could squeeze into a long ez but got it anyway. My predicament was making the bird fully IFR capable (minus ice:yikes:) so I could punch up through the decks to get me home. I decided to build a mock-up out of wood (1/4" ply) and see if my goodies would fit with the EFIS1 and a standby 4 pack to get a let-down if the glass poops in the soup! Here is what I set up: Terra is taking care of the NAV with a TN200D VOR/Glide slope/ TX 760D for comms/ TRT250D for transponder with mode C and a digital TRINAV C for course and glide slope info. 2-1/4" AS and ALT with a standby digital tach and OIL pressure/temp ( the tach and Oil P/T will be for engine start before I throw the avionics switch ) I also came across a great deal on a B.F. Goodrich 2-1/4" standby Attitude direction indicator with an internal battery source for 15 minutes of unadulterated independent standby capability (nice unit but 24 volt so my decision on voltage system is made for me) RNAV will be via the BME GPS backing up the VOR V / J route. (I may go with a 496 side mount that flips out for certified GPS and XM WX RADAR as the GEN 3 has no WX Radar capes) Image 1 is pre-powered:confused: Image 2 is powered up:dancbana: Image 3 is the EFIS 1 showing the panels happy home in Alexandria with the ADI in terrain mode overlooking the Potomac river as well as the TN 200D tied in as the NAV Source to DCA Image 4 is a non glare shot Image 5 is a close up of the standby array. Unfortunately to make it fit in a long I had to deviate from accepted scan layout for a 4 pack, so I chose to align the BFG ADI and the Terra TRINAV abeam the BM ADI and HSI to keep the scan relatively the same if I have to go to backup instruments. The Tach is top left and the OP is bottom right. The BME1 does the entire engine scanning so these really were not required but I prefer to keep the avionics cold until the main Gen is online so these will be hot off the battery bus. Image 6 is of the back of the panel and the room behind the EFIS display is plenty to mount the gold box and clear the Canard pitch crank hardware:juggle:. I can also mount the box further up front as I am redoing the nose Long to accommodate easy installation of the Electric nose gear and offset W/B for the 160HP O-320 I have for the bird (not to mention the sexy look of the mod). Let me know what you think guys and send any recommendations, suggestions, corrections etc. I don’t know of any longs with a BM EFIS one so if anyone knows somebody flying one have them e-mail or PM me. It is good to be back! Thanks, Sully

Drew, looking foward to it. The XTP course is the Army slang for the Navy Experimental Test Pilot Course. Very few slots are available each year for Army Helo Aviators to attend so he is quite fortunate and from what I understand it is quite a challenging course. When he graduates he will be doing R&D on Army helo and fixed wing mods as well as new aircraft. He is a smart guy...the upper level math makes my head spin so I chose to go operational fixed wing after 15 years of helos. The C-12U and T2 are nice to fly...not as fun as a 14 but a nice break from helos for a while. Be safe. Sully

Hi Drew, that is awesome. I hope we can hook up when you get back. A good friend of mine is at PAX now attenting the XTP Course. I will look you up next summer. Thanks for the response and I will ping you about the 320 mods as that is the route I am going. In the interum, keep your head down on the ground and check six! Be safe and let me know if you need anything down range. Sully

HI, I just got the project moved from Watertown NY down to Alexandria VA where I will be stationed for 3 years flying C-12's (King Air 350 for you civil types) and was wondering if there are any canard builders/flyers in that area whom I could buy lunch over a little conversation. I have been out of the loop for a year and a half in Afghanistan flying H-60s and am working my way back to getting restarted on the Long EZ. I do have some questions about the engine mount and firewall setup as I picked up a 160HP Lycoming O-320. I also aquired an Blue Mountain Efis one Gen 3 and will be doing the long nose mod to accomodate the box. It is good to be home and I have a nice big two car garage to finally get some serious work done on the Long. I should have her in primer by next fall:) It is good to be home and kinda good to be moving to a more temperate location with a nice big garage! Be safe! Sully

Thanks Kilo42 That was quite informative. It is nice to see feedback from a Long EZ pilot on the forums and validates why this forum is such a great resource. StuckInTikrit dont forget Barnstormers.com as they have some nice LEZ's for sale. Also check http//www.ez.org as that is the home of Central States Association and it is another great organization for canard drivers with an excellent classified section. Membership there is cheap and information is plentiful as well as support from other builders/flyers. I have been told three must have memberships are AOPA (legal lobby and fantastic web access for flight planning, weather etc), EAA and CSA. You are so short you could change the oil on a crickett standing up! Keep your head down and get home safely. I am getting ready for a second tour in Afghanistan so I know the feeling. Good luck, stay safe and get home soon! Sully

Thanks Carlos! I appreciate the support...on the builders as well as the national side. Thanks again, fly safe and good luck with the AC! Sully

Hi all uploaded some pics of the EZ project under the other section... http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9056#post9056 Fly Safe, Sully