SULLY_H60

Any new updates Wayne??

Sorry about the "Biff" thing...I could edit it to "Skippy":)

This post should be renamed "Battle of the rocket science engineers":-) A good read. Arbiter: You keep talking about structure...A good start is a book you can get on E-Bay for around 8 bucks. "The complete guide to Rutan Aircraft" gives a great history on the development of all Rutan designs and all the structural testing that has been completed. The derivatives do not change the basic construction and design; hence the basic "Structure" (G load, etc) has been tested! I am sure Piper and Cessna would agree with you that experimental aircraft should be type certified, that way a Cozy would be on par with a Baron or Cherokee at around a bazillion bucks to the average Joe. I appreciate your input, but you sound more like a lobbyist for certified aircraft than experimental. Marc: It is time for me to do battle with your witts! ..... ..... .....(my head hurts)..... ....(I give up) .... Marc is a smart MOFO and sometimes it takes people a while to get used to his style. Arbiter do yourself a favor and realize that Marc is doing a lot for the community and has his own wiki in his head and if I were going to try something new or different with a design I would pay good money for his consulting and I must add he offers at no cost to most people (whom he likes) and readily offers advice on this and other forums. I am a career pilot in the military and I am a pretty competent aviator, combat tested and proven and if there is one thing I have learned...Engineers are an extremely good bunch and if they tell me the seat will stroke and absorb 10 G's, I say "Roger that". And if I say I got this feedback in the controls after taking rounds, they usually say "We can re-engineer it and make it better and stronger and still shave 2.6 lbs. off" I did get a kick out of both of your post. But on this issue I must say to Marc "Roger that"

Wow, look at that airport on Google maps and it is no wonder. It is so built up on the departure and arrival ends of the runways that it is surprising they don't have more tragic accidents. Poor planning by the city. 5000 foot strips, 130 degree temps, recip aircraft...what are they thinking. The airport commisioner should spend less time berating experimental aircraft and more time reviewing TERPs. I wonder if the "Bubble headed bleach blonde" that comes on at 5 will run an op-ed with her side kick "Biff" on how dangerous twin engine factory built aircraft are. It is unfortunate and that area has clearly outgrown that airport.

Pro Seal is an epoxy...industrial type. The military uses it for all kinds of aviation repairs from sealing composite tip caps on rotor craft to pressurized cabin. It has amazing adheasion properties and you can mix it hot if you need a quick repair. I am pretty sure it will stick to any other epoxy. Shoot Gary an e-mail and he can clarify. It will absolutley seal a pin hole leak ( if you can find it as Lynn pointed out). I know Jeffco is all the rage, but if it were me I would stick with the straight epoxy to seal the tank. Many Longs have been flying for almost 30 years with AVGAS and the original wet application still des not leak. I thought Jeffco was originally an automotive product so the Ethonal should have no effect on it. Gary states in his tech advisory that any repairs must be completely dry before applying any sealants. Burt Rutan in the long easy manual states a liberal wet coat of EZ-poxy...He designed the original tank used in all these variants so I would stick with his method. Does the Velo plan call for Jeffco? Have you posted anything on the AS&S forum? Was the plane ever stored in a storage room where the finished strakes could have really temped out? Epoxy will decure and become plyable if the critical temp is exceeded...hence the white paint jobs. Good luck. A minor set back for what surely will be an awesome airplane. Sully

I have been told Jeffco does not bond well with some epoxy and the area must be absolutly free of any contaminates. I am sorry for your situation. If it were me I would bite the bullet and redo the strakes. Lots of work, but all that peeling Jeffco would be scary as a fuel line contaminate never mind resealing. This is straight out of the repair section for condition inspection: 3.3 Fuel Tanks 3.3.1 Fuel Leaks Fuel tanks are integral to the airframe structure. Resin is applied liberally during the construction process to seal the inside of the tanks. However, once in a great while, someone will discover a leak. Strangely at first, the leak may propagate well away from the tank walls before the fuel finds itself visible to the owner. Capillary action can make the leak propagate to far away places, and even appear in the nose of the plane. You’ll ask, “What is causing that? There’s no fuel up there.” One technique for diagnosis is to partially fill the leaking tank. Then tilt the fuselage at various angles and leave it alone for several hours to see if the leak appears at the exit point. This will take days to find the source of the leak, but it has shown to be effective. And now the repair process. Of course, you will need access to the suspected area, whether it’s on the fuselage side surface or somewhere else on the tank surface. There went the paint job. And you will need to learn how to repair composite structures to finish the job. Don't try to adhere Vinyl Ester resins to Epoxy resins. Although both are fuel resistant, resins bond best to themselves but not so well to each other. Once the tank has been soaked in fuel, it is difficult to get most things to bond to the inner surfaces, even after sanding and abrading. Recommend you buy some Pro-Seal - fuel tank sealant as used in aluminum tanks. This product has been specifically formulated for doing just what you want it to do, i.e. seal leaks. It bonds extremely well and remain flexible yet fuel resistant. It comes in two grades, one grade is rather viscous and gooey to be daubed or troweled into place with an applicator stick. The other is brushable, and intended to be used to line the entire inside of the fuel tank. Take your pick based on what you want to do. They are both about $40 - You will only need small portion, so don't plan on mixing up the whole container. You might look around for some RV builder that may have some left over from sealing his tanks. Or, you can sell him your leftovers. First, remove all the garbage from previous attempts to seal the leak first. Scrape it, sand it, grind it, whatever, get rid of it. As mentioned, the tank inter-skin is fuel soaked. It is highly recommend you find some way to allow it to dry out for day or two. This is especially important for the area you found is leaking. Any fuel weeping from the leak area will definitely keep anything from sticking -especially if was mogas. Apply a heat lamp, from a distance or even just a 40-watt light bulb to warm up the surfaces and drive out any residual fuel. Don’t let it get too hot, no more than about 140F. As a rule of thumb, (perhaps hand) if you can hold your hand flat on the hot surface to the count of ten, the temperature is below 140F. Allow it to cool back down before applying the Pro-Seal. That should do it. Gary Hunter EAA Technical Counselor Heavy epoxy with pro seal might do the trick after the top skin is reset. I am not much help but thought I would pass this info. Good Luck.

That is wacked! Sad too!

An easy solution to the Roncz canard issue is to use the TERF CD for the plans and Eureka CNC for the core. His cores are excellent and cost $200 for the Long EZ. His website talks about the subtle differences between the Long and Cozy canard. http://www.eurekacnc.com/Home.htm The GU has always exhibited flow seperation with leading edge contamination, bugs, rain etc. The vortelons correct some perfectly and others not so much. Building the Roncz with Eureka cores will give you and education in the build process and with a request also probably get an experienced builder to help you along. If the GU pitches enough to scare you in light rain, do yourself a favour and build the Roncz for the experience and the peice of mind. Good luck! PM me if you are having trouble locating the Roncz plans and I will see if I can point you in the right direction. There was talk about posting them on the Open EZ area as well. Peace!

Chairboy, say what you want...we don't see eye to eye on this one and I do not want it to be personal...I just can't see the relevance of posting the guys address on a forum, even if it is a matter of public record. I am sure the NTSB is on top of it, there will not be a preliminary for at least a week and nothing factual for some time. Your UK pool story is out in left field and yes there are professional trolls who scour the internet for information to use for ill purpose all the time. Either way the cause of this mishap on a heavily modified airframe should not halt your build. Good luck. No hard feelings.

Here is my first go details on the link below http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4874

God Bless the crew and God speed to the SQD.

Hey guys, just my opinion, but from one who has to deal with aviation fatalities within the job, querying about a mishap is one thing, but posting names and addresses and personal info is just wrong and slightly inconsiderate. I know the info is available online if you know where to query it but that does not make it right. It feeds the scoundrels who scroll the net to take advantage of others misfortune. Please have some consideration for the family members and let them be informed by the proper authorities or loved ones instead of the internet. I don't want to seem like a buzz kill but come on. My 2 cents. Peace:confused:

That is funny...SUMIE I get,,,the others you will need to elaborate on. I agree that a pilot needs to be very proficient to play with hard minimums in GA aircraft. I fly for a living and in the Army we can shoot the approach regardless of the vis and cielings...fact of the matter is you break out well above minimums most of the time...I think if you are proficient enough to fly instruments in a 172 then a canard would be no different. In military flying the three things disliked most about flying are 1. Getting shot up 2. Thunderstorms 3. ICE You don't see 1 in the US (unless your flying next to a United heavy while the FO is showing off his new TSA approved pistol) Thunderstorms can be dealt with if you can get high enough to navigate around them ( never try to go over one ) and ATC is good about helping you stay out of the heavy precip. If you are IMC at the time you had better have good color weather radar and a storm scope. In a small GA or Experimental aircraft you should just avoid them period and never try to take off ahead of one. Also have a good understanding of Isolated -V- a line...you can't navigate around a line...even in the great state of Georgia:cool: Trace ice on a canard would probably not cause LFS over the cord and you could probably get out of it fine as NASA studies have shown little change with trace. I myself won't be flying a long IFR if icing is forcast period. In my experiance when they usually say trace it is light and when they say light it is moderate. My Go criterea is a check in the NONE block under icing when it comes to light GA/Experimental. Google Nasa+ICE and you will see some very good videos that will convince you a canard like a duck should avoid ice. The RV story is funny and just goes to show you...just because one owns an airplane and has a liscence does not mean they should be flying. Stupid move on thier part...there is a reason why they are called sucker holes... Peace

Waiter let me know when you want to offload the accessories you are upgrading if you want to sell...what type 320 are you running?

Thank you for the encouragement. Another cool feature is the VGA out. This can plug into an automobile 7 inch LCD and display everything for the GIB. They can't manipulate it, but will see everything the front seater has up and that is way cool and very affordable for a second display! Blue MAX...it has been a while...although I do follow your progress on your web page! Your progress is amazing...only surpassed by your undying enthusiasm:cool: ! Cozy Girrrl...will you be selling the same Pitot tube you made for your Cozy?? Just a thought:confused: . Thanks again, Sully