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Jon Matcho

Unfortunate Situation / Canard Aviation, Inc.

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Yesterday, John Slade launched a new business, Canard Aviation, Inc. to provide various aviation services.

 

Unfortunately, John also decided to join with Eric Ruttan (LargePrime) and Mike Skorija (dust) in an effort to effectively turn this forum off. I began to wonder whether something was brewing last week, when John asked me to export all posts by dust. I had to decline, as this would have been a great deal of work for me, with no upside for the Forum Membership. These events were also close in time to a series of ill-willed posts directed towards the Canard Zone administrator (me). Sensing something, I reluctantly decided to disable John's administrator privilege. Seeing from the system logs that John hadn't administered anything on the CZF for over 3 months, I thought the only way John would notice would be if he would actually try to export dusts posts. If I was wrong, I could easily change back.

 

Last night I was monitoring the server performance, and noticed quite a bit more e-mail activity than usual. Looking more closely, dust and LargePrime were sending hundreds of e-mails to individual members petitioning everyone to leave this forum. If anyone didn't get a copy of their message, send me an e-mail and I can forward to you.

 

Not supporting this, and working alone, I felt the best decision available was to restrict access for the members of the coup to stop the mayhem. Rest assurred that their accounts have NOT been deleted, nor have any of their posts. Prior to now, no user has ever been kicked off of this forum, and never has any post greater than a single word in size ever been deleted.

 

This forum is and has always been 100% open to discussion.

 

However, this time was different, I did not agree with their intentions, and felt it best for the community at large to make a quick decision. I think it's fair to say that somewhere between calling me a jackass and making a guerilla attack on the forum membership is cause for some restrictions to be applied. I will soon restore full access to these three, but understand from their e-mail that they do not intend to post here anyway.

 

So here we are, with yet another source of information out there. The question I ask is, "how much is too much, and is the community at large now better off?" That question has been asked by those on the Cozy Mail List of the CZF. Marc Zeitlin and I have had sincere discussions on this topic. My hope is that someday the technology will allow a unified membership, which I equally hope Marc will consider supporting. Marc and I will continue to freely discuss this topic, the present technical constraints, and what would have to happen to allow each membership to seemlessly exchange posts with one another. For me, this would be a great achievement. If you want to talk about a knowledgeable community, it is this one AND the members of the Cozy Mail List.

 

I personally prefer the user interface of forum software over the e-mail list provided by Marc. With that said, I find it inconceivable that one would not also consult with the Cozy Mail List or the other robust information at www.cozybuilders.org.

 

In spite of these recent distractions, I promise to continue running this forum running as best I can, and continuing its evolution as a community process -- not one that is tied to any single vendor or company. Brickhouse Software, Inc. and Jon Matcho are the "patron sponsors" of the Canard Zone. Brickhouse is a software company, and so neither it nor I have anything to gain here, we do not have a bias towards selling you anything or hoping you'll need services. My motivation has been honest and clear from the onset of my efforts -- I want for this forum to be useful during the course of my building period; for me and anyone else that happens to want to participate here. The Canard Zone will continue to be operated as a vendor-independent community for many years to come.

 

When we act like one, we become one. I posted this here for open discussion, so please feel free to make any comments you like -- just don't call me a jackass. ;)

 

Respectfully yours,

Jon Matcho

Cozy IV Builder #1185

Canard Zone Administrator

Community Proponent


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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Keep up the good work Jon. I'll have a look at the other, but like the format here, and don't need 802 new posts every day to make it seem more important (see below for time spent on forums...)

 

I do note some duplication of effort, I see the same subjects and even the same posts appearing here, on Marc's list, the many detailed builders websites, the Homebuilt forum and even the EZ Squadron "hangar flying". This is the format I prefer for reference, particularly with its canard focus. For following a discussion/arguement I like Marc's, especially as it is easy to salt away interesting snippets for future reference. If I tried I could go full time just reading stuff and never build anything!

 

Sorry to here there are some dogs eying off your bone, but isn't it the American Way to try and wring some bucks out of anything? :cool:


Mark Spedding - Spodman
Darraweit Guim - Australia
Cozy IV #1331 -  Chapter 09
www.mykitlog.com/Spodman
www.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane

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Jon and all others.

I have never taken sides over this issue, mainly because I REALLY do not care. HOWEVER,,,,,you convienantly only tell ONE side of the story here in the open where EVERYONE has a chance to read what is going on. The bottom line is the way you dealt with valuable members of the forum. You were rude and abusive to them in private, then tell everyone in public what a nice guy you are,,, and how wrong THEY were,,,, they are a bunch of liers. Then you complain openly when your private messages were made public!!! Stop lying to everyone here!!!! You DID BAN Largeprime from posting!!! End of story!!! I see Largeprime and Dust every week so I KNOW whats going on!! Others do not!! STOP LYING TO EVERYONE!!! I'm moving over to a forum that in uncensored, open, polite, informative, and is not run by bullies such as yourself, or Zeitlin!! I encourage all others to do the same. Its the ONLY way to get a new administration since Jon would not cooperate voluntarily.


Dave Clifford

"The Metal Man" Musketeer

Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!!

 

Cozy MKIV Plans #656

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Dust asked me to allow him access to say "goodbye", and so I did the same for John Slade, LargePrime (Eric Ruttan), and dust (Mike Skorija). Part of me says this is a mistake, but if they want to be deviant enough, they can do anything they like -- I only have so much energy.

 

Dave, you have taken sides plenty of times.

 

 

Then you complain openly when your private messages were made public!!! Stop lying to everyone here!!!!

Most everyone tends to get upset when a private message is made public. I am not a liar. Dust and I did exchange "words" privately, which I felt HE took the first turn for the worse. I never denied this exchange. If you like punishment, you can even read it in all its ugliness here.

 

Since the "dust incident", I tend not to write many private messages here. Everything anyone writes remains on these forums (except for the one-word 'dustpicks' posts -- I did delete those).

 

Sure, I regret the courses some threads have taken, and wish for some of that NOT to be recorded for posterity, but as you can see everything is still there.

 

My position on keeping all posts might change within the next few hours, depending on what posts LP, dust, and JS will write (understanding that they told most EVERYONE they would no longer post here).

 

A post I WILL remove will be one telling everyone to leave this forum. That simply does no good at all for the Cozy community at large.

 

I do hope we can get back to enjoying each other's questions and successes, without the heckling. I just received materials for chapters 4-7 today! :o

 

Please feel free to post anything you like.


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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Minor Points

 

I decided to start a new forum, I invited John and Largprime. I worked very hard on this forum for a long time to make it a place to be. Jon, when YOU took it over, you made it quite clear YOU don't like me or what I brought to the forum. I found out last week that you own the forum and that no attempt was going to be made to bring this forum up to the standards I want to be associated with and I decided to leave and start my own.

 

You said - guerilla attack on the forum

 

I will disagree, using the complete list of all members of the forum as of three or six or whatever months ago would have been a guerilla attack on the forum. We chose not to do that. That was just a PIA announcement.

 

BTW, I have been complimented that it was a very polite announcement, i worked very hard to keep it that way.

 

There are many posts here that I made and I plan on copying, I wrote them and I will copy them, i will also copy the answers as I desire.

 

Glad you recieved the supplies, cmon over to [pirate URL removed by admin] if you have any questions, we will be glad to answer them, as you know, I specialize in helping newbys out, as always:

 

enjoy the build

 

dust


maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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allow him access

 

Why shouldn't he, or anybody else not be allowed to post? I don't know of anything that anybody has done that would cause posting privliges removed.

 

One friend of mine belongs to 14 different automotive forums and even moderates a number of them.:eek: I doubt any of them gave any thought about it at all.

 

Anybody who asks questions, gives anwers, etc.. politely, should be welcomed here. :thumbsup:


Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
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THATS what is part of the problem here. Sorry Jon.

Dave Clifford

"The Metal Man" Musketeer

Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!!

 

Cozy MKIV Plans #656

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Why shouldn't he, or anybody else not be allowed to post?

Mike, John Slade essentially asked me if I or he could download the forum data so that dust "could put his posts on another forum or website". This raised my brows, especially coming from John.

 

Only when I was forwarded a copy of the e-mail did I make the decision to momentarily ban their activities until I had a chance to begin this thread. Their privileges have been fully restored for days now (with the exception of John Slade as administrator), and the "ban" was less than 1 day.

 

Anyone and everyone can post whatever they like now. I finally feel myself to be a member of this forum, and can look forward to posting without worry of angry rebuttal towards even the smallest things.

 

Having just received material for chapters 4-7, I expect to have some of the greenest questions anyone has seen, as any member of this forum should have.

 

Post away everyone! Give it a try, and see what happens.


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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Which brings up the question of intelectual property. To whom or what entity do my thhoughts (posts) belong to once I press that reply button? Does dust have the right to have his posts? Personally, I don't see any problem with it.

 

One reason may have been to make sure they weren't lost. I know of one other fellow who was removed from an automotive forum. All his posts were deleted and so was any thread that he started. We lost a lot of good intelectual data overnight that may never be replaced.

 

Now that you're building, when will you have time to administer? Better start training another non-building replacement.


Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
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To whom or what entity do my thhoughts (posts) belong to once I press that reply button?

All posts made on this forum, unless otherwise indicated by the poster, are in the public domain. This does not mean that you can post copyrighted material without a reference. A general rule of thumb is that if you post content from somewhere else, you should give credit to the source.

 

 

Does dust have the right to have his posts? Personally, I don't see any problem with it.

Neither do I. The only problem I had was John Slade asking me to perform a wholesale export of the Canard Zone Forums database for import into another forum database. I declined and felt it necessary to remove his administrative privileges, making him a regular member just like everyone else.

 

 

One reason may have been to make sure they weren't lost. I know of one other fellow who was removed from an automotive forum. All his posts were deleted and so was any thread that he started. We lost a lot of good intelectual data overnight that may never be replaced.

That simply has not and will not happen here. From what I have been told, this "new and improved" forum has already deleted posts and entire threads.

 

 

Now that you're building, when will you have time to administer? Better start training another non-building replacement.

Administration was not my time-sink, it was politics. Nick Ugolini and Marc Zeitlin are co-administrators, able to step in if I accidentally epoxy myself to my garage wall. ;)

 

Part of my day job involves building "knowledge" communities (information centers) for corporations. I enjoy my work there, have enjoyed making improvements to this site, and have been discussing a number of ideas with Nick and Marc. I am really looking forward to getting back to the fun, and this equation is where I am at with this "project": software stuff + building my Cozy + the community at large = major fun hobby


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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All posts made on this forum, unless otherwise indicated by the poster, are in the public domain. This does not mean that you can post copyrighted material without a reference. A general rule of thumb is that if you post content from somewhere else, you should give credit to the source.

Is there an implied copyright to posts that I make here (or any forum)? I don't think so, unless I specifically add a copyright statement.

 

If I quote myself, I don't need to give credit to me.


Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
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OK. I'll respond once, then I'm outta here.

 

First, lets get the chronology and the motivations straight. Nick & I started this forum 18 months or so. Up until last week I was one of the main supporters of this forum as a new improved medium of communication.

 

Last week Dust asked me if I could dump all his posts. I saw nothing wrong with it, since he owns them, (and I now read that Jon agrees) but felt I should run it by Jon rather than just do it. Not having messed with the new version (to save treading on each other's toes) I asked Jon if dumping the posts to a text file would be an easy task. Jon responded with something of a tirade in his PM which ended with the question "What am I missing?" Disgusted with his protective attitude, I responded simply "Pretty much everything". At this juncture I had no thoughts of starting a replacement forum, or of launching my corporation so early. I had planned to wait until I have the 40hrs flown off and would be ready to travel for business.

 

Sensing something, I reluctantly decided to disable John's administrator privilege.

Big mistake. It is just this sort of attitude, and downright insulting behavior, that made me decide that the forum under Jon's command (word choosen carefully) was not something I wanted to remain involved in. I founded this place and built an airplane. Jon strolled in 6 months ago and, to my knowledge, hasn't even made a bulkhead yet. Who knows best what is better for the community? The internet has added tremendous tool for airplane builders, and the more we can centralize the information the better. This said, this medium is not about copyright, control, power or ownership. It's about helping other people have as much fun as you're having, openly and honestly.

 

As an administrator I could have cut off Jon's account, or Nicks, or Marcs at any time. Would I do it? Never in million years. Why? Because it would be wrong, and it would be an in-your-face insult since it pretty much says "I think you are going to deliberately damage the forum in some way. I don't trust you, and I'm cutting you off before you can harm us".

 

If had a problem with a "co-administrator's" behavior I would speak to him/her about it and discuss the issues openly, not simply cut them off without any warning, email or phone call. My mistake, I suppose, was that I thought I was working in a team. I think it is this kind of "leadership" that we're over in Iraq fighting against, but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

Anyway, when Jon objected to dumping Mikes posts, and then cut me out like a bad apple, Mike suggested that we make a new forum and do it our way. At that point the idea made sense to me. We needed a server, so I ordered one, brought forward my corporate annoucement and allowed Mike and LP to install the forum under it.

 

As was said in the email the guys sent, enough is enough. I think we have created a happier place with, as Joe P would say, good karma. Many people who had gotten fed up of the BS here have apparantly "come out of the woodwork" to join us. This will be my last post on this forum. If anyone wants to know how my exploits are progressing they know where to find me.

 

As for you, Jon. I wish you the best. You are embarking on a wonderful journey. I hope you complete it, and I look forward to flying alongside you in a Cozy formation one day soon - Just not too close, if you don't mind. :D

 

Regards, and may the winds always be at you're back (except during takeoff and landing)

John Slade


I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net

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I'm not one to say " I told you so!" but Jon, "I told you so!". We all did, six months ago, but you couldn't take a hint.

 

Now look what you have gone and done, another canard website formed because of your bad manners.

 

Instead of making this site stronger, you have driven away the very people needed here.

 

Good Effort :thumbsup:


The Coconut King

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Hello everyone,

 

I want to share my thoughts with you for the future of the Canard Zone, but first want to take a moment to address the obvious tension between John and me, as well as with some other members. The tension has been evident since "Day 1", when I was promoted to Lead Administrator by Nick Ugolini, the original founder of this forum (BTW, I am glad Nick is still here as an administrator). John and several others were very much against anyone other than John to take control of the forum, and unfortunately I was never able to make these members happy. You can relive these awkward moments by reading the "Day 1" thread as well as the recent "Last straw" thread.

 

I realized on "day 1" that my primary concern, as a member owning plans, was for this forum to exist independently of any corporate aviation entity. When John suggested he attach the forum to his business then, I reacted as a member, and offered my time and support so that the forum may move forward as an independent organization. This forum continues to operate today un-biased and free of any influence other than that from the membership and the 3 administrators.

 

There's 3 sides to every story, and John has done an excellent job of convincing everyone that all this "just came up" this week. I have tried to handle the outbursts, some for the smallest of things, in the best manner I could. I can only imagine the riot that would have happened if I actually implemented the changes now available at the "new and improved" forum to the letter!? :scared:

 

While I do not agree with the premise behind Canard Aviation, Inc. setting up another discussion forum for canard-types, anyone is free to do whatever they like. As a business owner, and a builder with intentions to become a rotary canard aviator, I can appreciate John's entrepreneurship and sincerely hope for CAI to "take off".

 

At this point I hope we can all move on, without further posts that do nothing more than fan these flames of distraction. There are many sources of relevant information available, with the Canard Zone being just one of them.

 

For all those that have sent in their words of support and appreciation -- thank you very much! :) You can be certain that the Canard Zone will continue with every intention of becoming the premier stomping ground for canard aviators. I look forward to "seeing" all of you here as well as meeting in person at an upcoming fly-in or project visit.

 

This forum is yours to use how you like -- I do hope you enjoy it.

 

Most sincerely,

Jon


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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Is there an implied copyright to posts that I make here (or any forum)?

By posting here, the Canard Zone makes no copyright on a member's "literary work". However, it is important to understand that by default, each member has a copyright on the text of their own posts.

 

This hasn't been much of an issue until recently with CAI-related events, but let me try to answer your questions. While I am not a lawyer, I have written 3 software books and am somewhat aware of the implications of referencing external works (read plagiarism :scared: ).

 

Here's the FAQ from the US Copyright office.

 

The Canard Zone is like a newspaper, essentially publishing articles on behalf of its members (authors). In order for one to properly reference material from another source (with the Canard Zone being a source), you must reference both the source AND author, clearly identifying how the reader is to find the original "literary work". This includes the publication name (Canard Zone), article name (thread name), page # (post #), and author name.

 

Mike, if these questions specifically relate to copying posts from here over to the CAI forum, then you just need to get permission from the original authors (not the Canard Zone). There seems to have been a fear that everyone's posts would be deleted, but that's clearly not going to happen.

 

I hope that helped.


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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Some very pointed statements have been made about this forum and me which are clearly unfair and hurtful, let alone not true. I've left this alone for some time now, but it seems some actually believe the hype. If silence implies "truth", then I must speak up -- so that some factual information is available for everyone to judge for themselves.

 

 

Jon responded with something of a tirade in his PM which ended with the question "What am I missing?" Disgusted with his protective attitude, I responded simply "Pretty much everything".

Following is my so-called "tirade", the 3rd out of 3 replies to John asking me to export this forum's data. Here is the exact text of my final reply:

 

 

(to John Slade via private e-mail)

This must be how Marc Zeitlin felt when the CZF showed up -- seeing it as fracturing the community. I felt the same when dust posted a link to homebuiltairplanes, and especially now, since...

 

>He probably wants to repost the data on a website or another forum.

 

I thought the same, and why on Earth would I want to encourage such a thing?

 

>Do you have a problem with me trying to help him?

 

Yes, because I do not want to encourage yet-another-canard/cozy-support-group.

 

John, to be frank, I am feeling as though you are positioned against me in more ways than one. I took offense to a post a while back, which we cleared up. Recently, Largeprime (Eric Ruttan), called me a "jackass" in public. Rather than defending your co-administrator and team member, you just threw a bit more gas into the fire. You're just sitting there now, letting dust say "the knowledge here is weak". Your silence is offensive in itself. I would have certainly stood up for you.

 

I'm sorry John, but unless I am missing something, I do not see how you are helping me administer this site. In fact, I feel you are a force against it moving forward.

 

What am I missing?

 

Jon

...and John's 3-word response:

 

 

Pretty much everything.

Which I find hypocritical when compared with this next statement:

 

 

If had a problem with a "co-administrator's" behavior I would speak to him/her about it and discuss the issues openly, not simply cut them off without any warning, email or phone call.

Evidently not what John chose to do, and exactly what I was trying to do. Not once did I receive any type of personal communication from John, or anyone else, to "discuss the issues openly" even when I asked for such a discussion. In the mail just prior to the one above, I wrote to John, "What is going on here? Give it to me straight John, here, one-on-one." John's response continued to focus relentlessly on how to dump this forum's data for purposes that I now see as apparent.

 

 

At this juncture I had no thoughts of starting a replacement forum...

Considering the posts John made in this thread over 6 months ago, I find it hard to believe that this thought never crossed his mind.

 

Also consider these public statements John has made, directed my way:

  • "No. No No"
  • "Make ASSumptions? This is when I suggest that it's best to STFU..."
  • "You don't [yet] have the background to know what will work well and what won't."
  • "I think it is this kind of "leadership" that we're over in Iraq fighting against..."
Would you be able to keep from being offended by these statements? Finally, I'm not sure whether the following statements should be considered contrary or just ironic:

 

 

Before: "Unless we control it, we do not feel it will be done."

After: "These mail-lists, forums and archives are not about power, ownership, control and copyright..."

 

Before: "The last thing we need is another place to check for information. No-one gains if we split the information between two places."

After: "we have decided to politely bow out and start our own forum."

I know this isn't going to change anything in terms of the forums at Canard Aviation Inc., but I had to get this "out there" once and for all.

 

The Canard Zone Forums will continue as an open and independently run community, with everyone welcome to post, and not to be dominated by any business or personal agendas. After this "reboot", you will see that there's a new crew of builders and flyers attaching themselves to this site. I welcome everyone to join the discussion, and feel equally privileged to read posts from everyone -- from the experts to the novices alike.

 

Please help yourself to use this forum as you like -- it is as much yours as it is anyone else's, and rest assured we'll be here for a very long time.


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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"After this "reboot", you will see that there's a new crew of builders and flyers attaching themselves to this site." :o

 

But I bet it won't take them too long to realise one site is administered by an egotistical nerd from la-la land, who in 18 months has got as far as hanging a spanner from his garage wall, and the other by someone who has actualy finished a fantastic Cozy Mk IV, with an excellent web site to boot. :D

 

see you all next door :thumbsup:


The Coconut King

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hi jon ! i look at the forum every morning and enjoy it very much. i,m not a person with many words but i do know horse shi! when i see it, i feel your doing a super job with the forum . keep up the good work.jim-m

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I just can't believe you justify yourself by trying to say that John Slade and I started a new forum for John Slade to make money.

 

Just absolutely ludicrous

 

Your view of life is twisted, so what exactly is my bad intention, as it was i that started the new forum.


maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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But I bet it won't take them too long to realise one site is administered by an egotistical nerd from la-la land, who in 18 months has got as far as hanging a spanner from his garage wall...

Come on, you don't find this picture funny?

 

I just can't believe you justify yourself by trying to say that John Slade and I started a new forum for John Slade to make money.

I hope he started Canard Aviation, Inc. to make money.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

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Can I make a comment here? I'm nobody. Just a flyer wanna be that loves reading these posts. But in life I've noticed many things. One of them is that you can't take words back. Please be careful what you say. I'll name no names but I see both "sides" as being both right and wrong in what they've said and done. The question is, why do you continue the fight? Is it really that important? Yes, mistakes have been made by ALL parties involved and this is something that cannot be changed. However, this is how we human beings learn and in the grand scheme of things, this works pretty well. We invented airplanes didn't we!?! Anyway, no matter what has happened or how you feel, this forum is still a wonderful place. I learned something once about parking in a parking lot that I think applies here. People come and people go. It'll all be OK.

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I agree.

 

When I get the urge to make a blatantly disagreeable remark which may raise another's hackles, I've learned to get away from the computer and go into the workshop and build. MUCH more productive, AND my blood pressure stays within semi-normal limits, (I just LOVE salt!!) :D


"I run with scissors."

Cozy MKIV N85TT

Phase One Testing

http://home.earthlink.net/~jerskip

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...I hope he started Canard Aviation, Inc. to make money...

I'm sure John did start CA,I to make money, and to finish his plane...But I don't see any evidence that he started the forum to do the same. Least ways, I haven't seen shameless plugs for CA,I except on the home page. If you bookmark the forum, you don't even see the homepage either.

 

To my thinking, if you are not getting pop-up or unsolicited e-mails via registering with the forum John really isn't working very hard to make bucks through that vehicle.


Nathan Gifford

Tickfaw, LA USA

Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330

Better still --> Now at CH 9

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Gentlemen,

 

Let's be honest here, this appears to have started as most "palace coups" start, over who will be in control. After all the talk of spanners hung on the wall vs airplanes flying, administering a site like this requires patience, time, and computer skills. The administrator is not authoring the technical information, he is moderating the site and keeping it running.

 

I only just started here, and surprisingly (lol) found the community excellent and the site useful even without the contributions of the coup participants. I hope to enjoy this site for some time to come as I build my Mark IV and need advise and direction. Not to say I will never visit another site, but so far this site seems to be a great place.

 

For all the administrators, thanks for contributing your time and effort!

 

Mark Boyles, PE

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Gentlemen,

 

Let's be honest here, this appears to have started as most "palace coups" start, over who will be in control.

I think you have missed about 5 years of drama. After dust et. al. split away from this forum to go 'start their own' several years back... they SPLIT THAT FORUM UP AGAIN (in 2007). Many, MANY members who jumped ship back then have come back here, and many people who joined the new forum have come back here, and vowed never to return to a forum run by those other guys.

 

Not to disparage anyone else.. but really.. bailing on your community twice? I don't think so. :irked:

 

EDIT: I am basing my opinions on my OBSERVED actions of others, Dust, Slade, Jon M, etc, etc. Not words.

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