Administration

Re: posts

Dust wrote

>screw you

>please stop writing me, say it to me on the forum, as i asked

 

The administrator wrote

 

>You're just not willing consider that some members do not want to listen to your yapping. For the good of the forum, I volunteered to stick my neck out for you to chop it off. I also see you didn't like what they had to say on the COZY list either, and your ran away to over here.

 

It is not what is said on the cozy list, it is how it is said, if you read the history of my feelings on the subject you would understand this, the list is too disjointed to be of optimum value. the mail list is combersome and doesn't reach a large enough audience, you have to join it, the forum is open to newby's and experienced allike, i feel if the forum format was available when the decision was made for the use of a mail list, it would have been chosen. I was on the cozy list for years and the same stuff just kept coming around and the archives had so much text they were useless to search through. the MAIN reason is you don't know what to look for

 

On this forum, HOW DO YOU KNOW TO LOOK UP PLASTIC PEEL PLY, you don't

 

You want me to stop posting, then ban me

 

you want me to stop copy and pasting repitive replies, i did it twice in 75 posts, big deal

 

you dislike me having a signature with my Full and complete Name and my sig of Mike, one complained that people were hiding behind nicknames, i did that to sooth a diferent ego than yours

 

you are tired of "enjoy the build", if you start building you might appreciate it

 

you wrote

 

>In the spirit of your "screw you", I am compelled to reply, "Shut the F up already."

 

Then they can easily block me. My efforts and agenda are clear, i am here to help, both in writing and in person

 

I saw this forum and the lack of activity and thought it was a good thing and new for it to survive it need info.

 

I HATE WRITING, i hire people to write letters for me, I CAN NOT STAND IT. Supporting this forum was very hard for me, in the beginning, but I did it

 

I planned on using an alias, dust, and when i wasn't needed anymore, i would just fade away.

 

New people come on constantly and we, the three musketeers are here to help

 

well I can't fade yet, it is not time, I need to learn more, I am the first to turbo and continental a cozy and i believe a long or others and need the help

 

If you were planning this type of project you would understand, it is obvious you don't

 

I hate negative crap like this and I can not believe you have sucked me in on this petty argument.

 

If the forum wants me out then fine i'll learn what i need to somewhere else, NOTHING STOPS A BUILDER

 

I'm tired of seeing the same posts and seeing info lost, so I AM DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT

 

The only ones that will lose out is all of my slaves/helpers and others.

 

I told you I have no use for yor petty additude and to not write me agin in private, air your feelings in public, block me, do what ever the ADMINISTRATOR wishes

 

enjoy the build

You just quoted a personal and private e-mail discussion that was between you and I.

 

If anyone did this to anyone else, I would do the same by deleting the post. Yes, this is moderation, but the practice of quoting private and offline discussion is unacceptable.

 

Any disagreements we may have that are kept offline must remain offline. I assumed this was/is understood.

I asked you not to write me except in PUBLIC

 

Please put the post back on, you were on notice that i would put it in the public forum

 

is there something that you said that was untrue, i worked very hard replying to each of your complaints

 

 

enjoy the build

 

mike

Mike,

I want and need your expertise, but I will have to side with Jon and others here............Please take some time to listen.....Your knowledge of building tech. and you concerns are well noted.

 

Nobody thinks you want to do anything but help.

 

If you insist on rage, you will loose peoples interest in looking to you for advise.

 

I do hope, with all that is me, you will still be my friend and help me. I can not imagine you doing any thing else.

 

A forum like this is more than building airplanes, leave the experts to the "Setting up, How a Forum Opperates"

 

You are a teacher and a builder.

Originally posted by dust

...you were on notice that i would put it in the public forum

You did not tell me you would do that, and at no time did I even consider you would do such a thing.

 

Everyone, the private messaging system is for private messages. Unless you get explicit permission from the other end of your discussion, private messages (an emails) generally should not be made public without the other's permission. This is just courtesy.

 

Seems like we need to add this to the guidelines (my apologies to those that do not use IE 6.0).

 

Mike, neither I nor anyone else is asking you to fade away. Just take a moment for a breather. I'd say more, but I don't want to incite riots and looting and so I will only hope the forum is still here when I wake up.

So i see you edited out your comments to me, they were, quite frankly un true and who ever told they were true was lying.

 

I didn't run from the mail list I IGNORED IT

 

the same stuff over and over, disjointed conversations, the wrong format, end of story

 

Do others have the posibility to edit others posts??? I DON'T think so, so you did

 

everyone is on notice, you can post on the forum anything i write, i have a clear agenda and i say the same things in private as in public.

 

I REQUESTED THAT JON STOP WRITING ME PRIVATLY, telling me off, i don't need the agrivation and he kept going after i said it was for public discussion only

 

he then did it again and i replied to it in public and he deleted the post and then put it back on and edited out his words

 

you want less drible, then make rules for all not just me, you don't like my posts, ignore them, do not censor them.

 

This conversation is absolute stupidity, i am here to help and learn.

 

enjoy the build

 

mike

Hello Trendsetters,
If I may add my tupence worth.

Anonymity
After the brief flash of my identity, I am afraid I must again become anonymous. I really don't like having my personal information on a public forum, or on the internet at all.
I subscribe to another forum, where I mainly listen , and some times ask questions of airline pilots, flight engineers, and ground engineers from around the world. That forum is totaly anonymous, and so I cannot see why this one should not be aswell. The aviation business is a small world, and as it is my chosen proffesion, I hope you can respect my point of view.

Administrator
When Nat decided to pass the plans over to Spruce, there was a thread for a while, where people voted on who should be at the helm.
http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=543&perpage=15&highlight=moderator&pagenumber=1
I was some what surprised to see Jon Matcho on his sixth post put himself forward, and be succesfuly chosen as administrator. It was a descision that seemed to be made against the general consensus. No offense to you Jon, but I see you still have not begun building, and I am not sure if you hold a pilots license. Checking the posts, you have not added much to the forum.

Can you not see that Dust might be upset by the fact that a newbie, non builder, non pilot has moved in, within the last six months, taken over, and started hinting at registration and rearrangement of this forum?

I was led to believe that non moderation was the backbone of this site.

I appreciate your plan for the canardzone, but that website is not particularly brilliant. In the time it has run it still only contains the list of canards I posted over Christmas, and a few links. It doesn't appear to be very proffesional, useful, or a site run by a true enthusiast.

Since becoming a member of this forum, Dust has been the most friendly person here, and by his experience, the first I would ask about construction. His enthusiasm is contagious, and if geography would allow I would be a regular slave for sure.

John Slade has nearly finished his Cozy, is an experienced pilot, would like to go into the composite aviation business, and works with computers. I am sure he put himself forward to be administrator. He had my vote then as now. It defies belief for me why he was past over for Jon.

Jon,
I know you have website experience, have seen all this before, and can quote reports and statistics about managing forums, but that just gives me the creeps. I like to come here and discuss things with other builders, wannabes, and pilots, not have a computer person tell me how it should be.

Dust,
Please calm down bro, being rash is just making things worse. This is your forum as much as ours, and losing your input would be very sad indeed.

It would be nice if folks could be nice.

 

I would rather suffer through building without any help. I think I will just "Lurk", from now on.

 

People have a responsibility to step up to the plate. There are many great web-pages that builders in this forum, and other forums, have put together for no other reason than to help others understand something.

 

Anyone that moderates a "Forum" or builds a "web-site" to help, deserves respect in my book. I barely have enough time to deal with my projects at home.

John Slade, Marc Zeitlin, Nick Ugolini, and yours truly are all the administrators here. I have not and will continue not to do anything without first gathering consensus. Administration is not a popularity contest, otherwise I would not be the admin. My posts mainly deal with the following, in this order:

 

1) Administration and tech stuff

2) Setting up shop

3) Buying plans

 

I readily admit that this is the extent of my Cozy experience -- as my posts show. I am also a new builder, and so have had legitimate questions and feedback -- like everyone.

 

The physical server hosting the Canard Zone forums is setup in a temperature controlled datacenter at my office, where it is monitored and cared for regularly.

 

When Mike/Dust began spamming the forums with 'dustspick', I noticed we had an unusually high list of online members. Why? Because their inboxes were filled with "Someone replied to your message at the Canard Zone". John Slade, co-admin, shared my opinion that Mike/Dust should stop this activity. I took the liberty to remove the single-word posts from the end of 20 threads that contained only 'dustspick'.

 

As John said, Mike/Dust's sentiments were appreciated, but the manner in which he was trying to effect Thread Rating had far more problems than good. Not I nor anyone else is disagreeing whether thread #283 should be called out -- I am sure Mike/Dust is right on for thread rating. However, knowing this software intimately, I can tell you the approach and means for tagging threads needs further review and analysis.

 

Originally posted by No4

I appreciate your plan for the canardzone, but that website is not particularly brilliant.

I'm sorry you do not care for the Web site, but it is optional viewing. Regardless, I have heard the voices and am working towards improving it.

For the past several days I have been getting bits and pieces of some sort of struggle between some of the people on this forum. Since I registered in '02 I had NEVER seen any struggles on this forum. One or two "newbie's" have had to be straightened out so as to stop writing offensive posts to get their points across.... but nothing else.

 

Here we are in '03, and all we've got is controversey. What has changed?

 

This is not going to help attract new builders.

We are not portraying teamwork.

 

No moderation is allowed with this forum.

 

Any person NEEDS to be allowed full access to this forum. If someone is here its because they are interested. There should be no sort of areas that only "experts" can post in... NONE OF US are experts! (Well, certainly not me ) I don't want to be part of a limited country club.

 

Now lets quit all this. Now for something I learned a long time ago, in a galaxy far fa........... Start Building

Okay... I stayed out of the discussion of administration before the website moved. I held my thoughts when all of the trial balloon changes were floated as innocent ideas for improvement. But enough is enough.

 

Leave Dust the Hell ALONE! So you don't like him inserting "Dustpick" in posts he thinks need to be saved or marked. Get over it! Sure its an inefficient way of marking good threads, but right now you have no way of sifting diamonds from dirt. Dust, a self-proclaimed non computer person, has come up with a solution while others are still considering the problem for months. Get busy writing code to change this and leave Dusts' breadcrumbs alone until you have paved the path!

 

And who the Hell says this forum needs to be another repository of collected information? Does the internet NEED one more canard archive of information? Don't the UCS, CSA, mail lists, cozy newsletters, et al cover every technical detail?

 

The value is not in the archive... the value is in the people! I'd rather ask a builder a question than sift through the archives and hope the answer I find hasn't changed! So WHAT if the question has been answered 500 times. Don't tell people to go look it up in the archive! The real repository of information is people like Dust and John who are doing it.

 

One value of this site is to be able to ask a question and have it answered by several people. The other value, and this is the only one exclusive to this forum, is to be able to "shoot the breeze" and have fun discussing wild outlandish ideas unmoderated.

 

At this point I wanted to illustrate my point by telling the story how my favorite restaraunt was ruined when it decided to become more "respectable"... but I'm out of time, and I think you get the point.

Seems I was drafting a reply in one area while you guys were all huddled in another corner discussing this. Ah well. I'll add my 2c here, then I'm off down to the hangar. I have a damn plane to finish.

 

Jon took over the "software admin" part because he offered the resources and time to do it. My offer of server space had a potential business advantage to me attached to it, and was deemed inappropriate. No problem. I'm happy with the overall direction, and I'm too busy trying to get through this last 2% of building to dedicate time to admin functions that Jon is doing. Once he gets into building, and I'm flying, perhaps I can help out more. Maybe I'll be having too much fun to even visit here.

 

Dust - consider my idea about a new thread with a single post listing your "picks". I think it would work well, and others (including me) could add posts containing their favorite threads.

 

Native - don't lurk - ask questions. That's what we're here for.

 

I understand Jon's concern about posting private messages. This should not happen. Having said that, I once had a problem with a certain airplane designer who kept sending me nastygrams. I put that person on notice that future private messages were subject to publication. The nastygrams stopped immediately. I disagree with Jon here. Once put on such notice, be prepared to have FUTURE private messages posted in public.

 

I wish we could all get together in a bar somewhere and discuss this stuff in person. Maybe one day we will. I think we'd find that we're all very good freinds.

 

Off to fit an alternator belt.

Chat amongst yourselves while I'm gone.

What in your message ot dust did you not want us to see Jon?

 

Let me get this straight, you are a software guy and internet savy, Right?

 

And you sent a message on the public internet to a public forum and EXPECTED it to be private? Even forever?

 

Is there an expectation of privacy? But you have a huge problem anonomus posters? Who arent realy anonomus, because most all of us know each other, have met face to face?

 

Again Jon, why do you feel you should say to dust something that cant be made public?

 

Maybe you shouldnt have said it?

On my posts to Dust in the Private Messaging system here, I was sharing constructive criticism to Dust directly. By nature of the name 'Private Messaging System', I believe it is understood by all that messages there are to be kept private.

 

John, at NO TIME was I put on notice that my e-mails would be made public.

 

Now that that this sh*t-storm is blowing, I have restored Dust's original message. In the future, I suggest the policy be that any post of private messages result in an immediate deletion of the entire thread with no exceptions.

How about we make a policy of no secrets?

 

Private messaging means you dont clutter up the threads with "Hi how are you" messages. It should be called "Individual Messaging". Any suggestion that ANYTHING on line is private is silly. Any statments or suggestions that reenforce that silly idea is propigating sillyness.

 

Click on my sig "we know who...". No privacy on the web. Dont let anyone belive it. It's not fear, its fact.

I suggest the policy be that any post of private messages result in an immediate deletion of the entire thread with no exceptions.

No, Jon. Lets not go too far to the right here. Next we'll be putting babies on the mountainside and keeping just the ones that survive. I understand that you drive a business during the day. Been there. Done that. Sometimes you just have to cut the crap and take action. Try to be a little gentler here. This aint a business - it's essentially a chat club. Knowing you have friends out there going through the same thing makes building alone much easier.

 

While nothing on the internet is ever entirely private, direct email and the PM system are, nevertheless, typically used for saying things you might not say in a public. I don't think private messages should be made public without prior warning that they will be.

 

If I got a message asking that a private quote be deleted I would delete it. The quote, that is. I'd replace it with "Private quote deleted at the request of ...".

 

Now I'm really off-line for the rest of the day.

Enjoy the build. (especially you Dust, since that's you're tag line)

Originally posted by LargePrime

How about we make a policy of no secrets?

Fine w/me, so who the heck are you?

 

I doubt however that the membership would be happy with giving everyone access control to view the contents of other member's private message mailboxes.

"I was sharing constructive criticism to Dust directly"

"I suggest the policy be"

"so who the heck are you?"

Jon if you havn't noticed, some of us are not so appreciative of your input as you might think. Sorry mate, you just can't move in and take over like this.

I know Largeprime, we all know him, so should you.

No one wants to read each others PM's. But as he says, this place holds no secrets if you know which buttons to press.

 

"Try to be a little gentler here. This aint a business - it's essentially a chat club"

Try reading John's post again.

 

Good Day:cool:

Good God! What's happened in the last day?

 

Private Messages are just that: private

 

Jon, your efforts are appreciated.

 

Dust, your experience is appreciated.

 

John, finish your plane. I want to see you and dust race. (I'm one of dust's slaves, but unlike Pete Rose, I won't bet on this one)

 

I'm a member of a few different forums and I've noticed that there are a lot of people that like to ask questions and get direct counseling from members and not use the search button and then there are a lot of people who will search first and ask as a last resort. We should try to accomodate both. Perhaps we can have a sticky thread for newbies that has a list of important posts that have been selected by members such as the ones that dust picked.

 

It's the people that make the forum what it is. I like the archive of old posts; there is a lot of good information there. I like the coffee house; the free expression of thoughts and ideas and general chit-chat.

 

Let's get back to work, building, brainstorming, or whatever...

Originally posted by mplafleur

Good God! What's happened in the last day?

 

We should try to accomodate both.

It's the people that make the forum what it is. I like the archive of old posts; there is a lot of good information there. I like the coffee house; the free expression of thoughts and ideas and general chit-chat.

 

Good Gawd do I agree. I hate that the fact that y'all fighting bothers me. Even though I have only met one person on this list, I feel like I know ya. I know who's style is more harsh, who is more full of themselve (a quality I kinda like) and who is a sponge for information. This is a community, that is what makes it fun. I love the destraction from my livelyhood to see what input has been added in the last couple of hours (or, as last night, few minutes )

 

Is there a way to rank the post via user input? If doable, this would seem to address some of the concerns.

 

I have difficulty understanding folks getting uptight about chatting....after all, IMO, this is a VIRTUAL HANGER. I come here to learn, teach, share and BS. I am able to share more now then when I subscribed a year ago. I am now an experience builer and even though I have been flying since 1978 (still have very few hours until recently), I have been a plane builder wannabee since 1961 (now age 42 <g>). I was a wannabe for 40 years, now I am a doer...this forum helps me do that. I look forward to my visits here.

 

As to privacy, I have bared all since day one, who, where, what etc. I think the alieses are kinda funny. But I don't really care. I do like some history on folks 'cause it gives me a little more insight....using only a nickname provides some too. To each there own.

 

That being said, I love the fact I can go to John Slades site and get some information. I have been averaging about 5 contacts a month (email, phone calls...even, yesterday, an Instant Meassage) as a result of my webpage. WOW, I have "friends' I don't even know yet...from all over the world. I love it. Ok, in my typicle wordy way I guess I am just saying WE ARE EXTREMELY LUCKY to have the net and this forum. I DREAD the idea of building like the guys and gals did only a few years ago. Mostly alone. Here, we are Independent but not alone.

 

Different Talents, Convictions and Temprements.

 

Damn, I should just hit delete....NOT. AND, being a Velocity Builder, I may be a second class member anyway <g>.

 

Thanks for the vent (hey, something else we can do here)

 

All the best,

 

Chris Barber

Houston, GSOT.......Super Bowl in 5 days

www.LoneStarVelocity.com

Is this a bad time to mention I found the article on the Avanti... and that I was right?

Originally posted by CBarber

Is there a way to rank the post via user input?

Chris, yes. We can have it done right, or we can have it right now, but we cannot have it done right, right now.

 

The Thread Rating feature is hooked up with the Moderation features, which I'm trying to separate so we can have all members vote.

 

I would rather wait to do this until the same time we implement the revised forum hierarchy. To me that makes best sense.

I understand that. I do like the idea of the ranking system. It may not do much for old posts, but I feel it could be great for the future. Unless some of us like the idea of reviewing old post as to relevance. It may even be a feature that would give us an edge over other media.

 

I look forward to a solution to the current discourse. I like this forum too much to see it self destruct.

 

 

All the best,

 

 

Chris

Men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all the other alternatives.

 

-- Abba Eban

 

Adminisrators have a Big Responsibility, to do.

 

Key Word is Do.

 

I CAN NOT be the only person seeing an incredible drop in conversation, and in Moral.

 

Censorship may be the last resort, but it also may be the right one. It is hard to know when to censor, but hindsight being what it is, 20/20, It should be before This kind of Ruckus ever gets going ever again.

 

For someone to step into this "Room" if you will , and read some of this Inhumane treatment of humans is unconscionable,Unconstructiveness.

 

I Think It would Be wise To clean out The Trash, Again ,If you will allow me to call it that. .Out of Sight Out of Mind

 

I realize it will not be an easy task, In that some will fume about it. But for Newcomers, and the future of the forum, Gather Up The People And

and VOTE, then CLEAN UP THE FILES.............and quick.

 

I doubt you can find one person that wants all the recent "Trash talk" to remain in the files.

 

Oh- Yeah,.............Where are all the People from Way Out West.

I doubt you can find one person that wants all the recent "Trash talk" to remain in the files

 

Well I guess you found him. I think all should be left in. The good and the bad. At least this way if the argument flares up again 6 months from now we can actually go back and look and see what was said instead of dealing with the antagonist's selective memory.