Wanted: LongEZ O-360

[MitchSnider]

I could use some help from the forum if you all have a minute. I am in the market for a really, really good Longez 0-320 (preferably Roncz canard and plain white, no fancy panel needed, reliable airframe and engine) and have budgeted enough to get a nice one by comparing prices of available ones for sale on Barnstormers, Trade-a-Plane, and Controller (it is just that I have called on all and they all have some serious issues for the 0-320s available like crashes, non-standard 28/14 volt electric system, no speed brakes, or years of sitting, no landing lights, etc. and I am budgeting for a good one and not a fix-er-upper).

 

I have sat in one a few years ago and really liked it. I owned an old Varga Kachina for a few years that is also tandem low wing metal plane with sticks that I have flown to Oskosh a few times and Sun-n-Fun every year but it drowned in a hurricane a couple of years ago from a 100 year storm that had no winds but an unexpected 4 foot wall of water. But have really always wanted the Longez. Infinity looked they were going to make a kit and I almost had enough cash to get the Berkut kit when they stopped making them years ago. I have even looked at the Sunshine Dart but plans are not yet available.

 

My reality for the moment is that I will not have time to build one from scratch until I retire in about 11 years and would like to enjoy flying one until I can build my own if I can find the 'right' one. I have been a Deputy Sheriff for 27 years and work a second job nights as a College Professor for Kaplan University online, run our Sheriffs Office Honor Guard Bagpipe Band and am raising a family of teenagers. I have been flying since I was 14 and have almost 600 hours logged. I have subscribed to Kitplanes magazine for the last 20 years. So the best compromise for me is going to be to try and find a well built LongEZ but have always been leery of the gamble you take in how each person built it (the 2000 ways NOT to buy a canard post here for example). I was at Oshkosh and Sun'n'Fun last year and will make a couple of days at Sun'n'Fun this year too. I sat in Nat Puffers Cozy but it is really more airplane than I need and can't really afford a good Berkut unfortunately (but don't need the extra problems dealing with main gear retracts anyway). I always attend the composite workshops at Oskosh/Sun-n-Fun and had to do continuous and extensive maintenance on my old Kachina every month, for which there were no parts available.

 

If any of know of a really good ship available or coming up (I suppose I can wait a few more months as I have waited so long already and did not want to pick from the 3 I see available on Barnstormers or Controller or Trade-a-Plane as they all have some bad issues after I called the owners/builders and did some research on them) I would really appreciate any help and I am not really interested in the Varieze and am pretty strongly biased toward the 0-320 and Roncz because I go about 240#. I just want a good safe, stable frame from maybe someone who is ready to convert to light sport or move up to a Cozy 4 seater and dont need their Longez any more.

I will be pretty picky but thanks for any help any of you can give if you know of a reliable one coming up for sale (with original plans so I can make repairs as needed). After 8 years on the waiting list I am also finally number 1 for a hangar at Marathon Airport and they have about 3 openings a year on the average so my timing is good there to be able to have a place to protect and work on it as needed.

 

Cheers,

Mitch 'Piper (I play the bagpipes and was the bagpiper for the Oskosh Band at the Theater in the Woods last year)' Snider

 

mitchsnider@mac.com

[Lynn Erickson]

I could use some help from the forum if you all have a minute. I am in the market for a really, really good Longez 0-320 (preferably Roncz canard and plain white, no fancy panel needed, reliable airframe and engine) and have budgeted enough to get a nice one by comparing prices of available ones for sale on Barnstormers, Trade-a-Plane, and Controller (it is just that I have called on all and they all have some serious issues for the 0-320s available like crashes, non-standard 28/14 volt electric system, no speed brakes, or years of sitting, no landing lights, etc. and I am budgeting for a good one and not a fix-er-upper).

 

I have sat in one a few years ago and really liked it. I owned an old Varga Kachina for a few years that is also tandem low wing metal plane with sticks that I have flown to Oskosh a few times and Sun-n-Fun every year but it drowned in a hurricane a couple of years ago from a 100 year storm that had no winds but an unexpected 4 foot wall of water. But have really always wanted the Longez. Infinity looked they were going to make a kit and I almost had enough cash to get the Berkut kit when they stopped making them years ago. I have even looked at the Sunshine Dart but plans are not yet available.

 

My reality for the moment is that I will not have time to build one from scratch until I retire in about 11 years and would like to enjoy flying one until I can build my own if I can find the 'right' one. I have been a Deputy Sheriff for 27 years and work a second job nights as a College Professor for Kaplan University online, run our Sheriff’s Office Honor Guard Bagpipe Band and am raising a family of teenagers. I have been flying since I was 14 and have almost 600 hours logged. I have subscribed to Kitplanes magazine for the last 20 years. So the best compromise for me is going to be to try and find a well built LongEZ but have always been leery of the gamble you take in how each person built it (the 2000 ways NOT to buy a canard post here for example). I was at Oshkosh and Sun'n'Fun last year and will make a couple of days at Sun'n'Fun this year too. I sat in Nat Puffers Cozy but it is really more airplane than I need and can't really afford a good Berkut unfortunately (but don't need the extra problems dealing with main gear retracts anyway). I always attend the composite workshops at Oskosh/Sun-n-Fun and had to do continuous and extensive maintenance on my old Kachina every month, for which there were no parts available.

 

If any of know of a really good ship available or coming up (I suppose I can wait a few more months as I have waited so long already and did not want to pick from the 3 I see available on Barnstormers or Controller or Trade-a-Plane as they all have some bad issues after I called the owners/builders and did some research on them) I would really appreciate any help and I am not really interested in the Varieze and am pretty strongly biased toward the 0-320 and Roncz because I go about 240#. I just want a good safe, stable frame from maybe someone who is ready to convert to light sport or move up to a Cozy 4 seater and don’t need their Longez any more.

I will be pretty ‘picky’ but thanks for any help any of you can give if you know of a reliable one coming up for sale (with original plans so I can make repairs as needed). After 8 years on the waiting list I am also finally number 1 for a hangar at Marathon Airport and they have about 3 openings a year on the average so my timing is good there to be able to have a place to protect and work on it as needed.

 

Cheers,

Mitch 'Piper’ (I play the bagpipes and was the bagpiper for the ‘Oskosh Band’ at the Theater in the Woods last year)' Snider

 

mitchsnider@mac.com

Try David Orr at canardfinder@att.net He has helped many find the right plane.

[MitchSnider]

Thanks for the reply Lynn! I actually did send email to him a couple of weeks ago for help but he will only help people that he personally knows (see copies of emails sent back and forth below) so I am depending on the mercy of others here now to steer me toward and good, safe bird. I still want to build my own after I retire but am middle aged now and don't want to loose out on 11 more good years of flying left in me (not counting build time).

 

 

emails to David Orr and responses:

__________________

 

On Mar 16, 2008, at 11:31 PM, David Orr wrote:

 

I don't find planes for people I don't know anything about.

 

Good luck in your search.

 

Beagle

 

Mitch Snider wrote:

Hello again Beagle,

 

Is this the only one (N14DL)?

 

Cheers,

Mitch

 

------------------------------------------

 

 

On Mar 11, 2008, at 7:09 PM, canardfinder@att.net wrote:

The advice is free. If you find a plane and want all I know, I�ll send it free.

 

The finding is 3% finder�s fee to $50,000 1% beyond that - if I find you the plane you buy.

 

Need the details to best advise.

 

Only if I send you a list and you find a plane from my efforts do I charge you anything.

 

Beagle

-------------- Original message from Mitch Snider <mitchsnider@mac.com>: --------------

 

 

> Hi Beagle,

> That looks nice from this angle. Do you have a panel shot as well and

> a price that he is asking (and other details). What do you charge as a

> finders fee for helping me with this?

> Cheers,

> Mitch

> On Mar 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, canardfinder@att.net wrote:

>

> >

 

 

--------------------------------------------

 

This was just a picture of the outside only. I would like some more details and an inside and panel pics if possible.

 

On Mar 10, 2008, at 4:30 PM, canardfinder@att.net wrote:

 

<N14DL at Mesquite 2006.doc>

 

----------------------------------------------

 

Hope you are still having fun down in Mexico. If you get a chance when you get back to let me know what "fill out the basic information" is about maybe I could help?

 

On Mar 9, 2008, at 5:42 PM, canardfinder@att.net wrote:

Fill out the basic information and I�ll try to hit the computer bar tomorrow - my Long EZ took me 1050nm into Mexico and I�m on vacation down here. As I said, I have about 10 right now. I need to know more about you though.

 

Beagle

-------------- Original message from Mitch Snider <mitchsnider@mac.com>: --------------

 

 

> Hello Beagle,

> Yes I had already read that from your site and it is very helpful.

> Thank you. If you know of any good ships (particularly the 0-320 as I

> go 250#) for sale please let me know!

> Cheers,

> Mitch

> On Mar 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, canardfinder@att.net wrote:

>

> >

>

 

---------------------------------------------

 

I had read this from your website and found it helpful. Thanks!

 

On Mar 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, canardfinder@att.net wrote:

<LONGBROC annotated.doc>

 

 

---------------------------------------------

 

My email to you on March 8:

 

Hello there!

 

I have seen you on the Race 20 Inbound video that I bought and found you here on the website. From what everyone says you are the one that could point me towards a top end Longez that might be for sale. I was hoping for a clean all white one with an 0-320 with a Roncz canard in top shape. I have a budget of about $60k to work with and from what I can tell that should get a really good one (of course I would like to pay less and use the rest to upgrade a panel). Unfortunately the ones I have seen on Barnsormers, Controller, Trade-a-Plane, eBay, and web searches all have 'issues'.

 

I have sat in one a few years ago and really liked it. I had an old Varga Kachina that is a tandem low wing metal plane with sticks that drowned in a hurricane a couple of years ago but have always wanted the Longez. Infinity looked they were going to make a kit and I almost had enough cash to get the Berkut kit when they stopped making them years ago. I have even looked at the Sunshine Dart but plans are not yet available (and I don't really have time for a full build until I retire in 10 years anyway though really even though I have subscribed to Kitplanes magazine for the last 20 years). So the best compromise for me is going to be to try and find a well built one but have always been leary of the gamble you take in how each person built it. I was at Oshkosh and Sun'n'Fun last year and will make a couple of days at Sun'n'Fun this year too.

 

If you know of any available or coming up (I suppose I can wait a few more months as I have waited so long already and did not want to pick from the 4 I see available) I would really appreciate it. I am not really interested in the Varieze and am pretty strongly biased toward the 0-320 and Roncz.

 

Cheers,

 

Mitch 'Piper (I play the bagpipes)' Snider

 

mitchsnider@mac.com

-------------------------------------------------

My emails to you on March 9:

 

Hello Beagle,

Yes I had already read that from your site and it is very helpful. Thank you. If you know of any good ships (particularly the 0-320 as I go 250#) for sale please let me know!

Cheers,

Mitch

 

Hello Beagle!

 

Mexico! I had been thinking about making that trip as the Yucatan peninsula is only about 350 mi from where I live in the Florida Keys. Have fun while you are down there and don't worry about responding to me until you get home and decompress.

 

There was nothing attached to fill out so I guess I will tell you more about me. I like long walks on the beach and.... lol

 

I have been flying since I was 14 (48 now) and have about 600 flight hours in a variety of airplanes. I have already owned aircraft and loved my Varga Kachina (low wing tandem seat metal plane with canopy and sticks) but it drowned when we got some unexpected flooding in a hurricane almost 2 years ago. I have a better plan to get out now (I have to stay down here and work when they come but we got hit with a couple back to back that year that changed course). I will fly it to Orlando next time and rent a car to drive back to work and then go pick it up after the storm passes. I was always good about moving it up to the mainland except for that one time as winds were not supposed to be bad (and weren't, it was a 100 year flood that got me that time).

 

I have been a subscriber to Kit Planes magazine for about 30 years now and always wanted to build a plane but in reality I know that I won't have time to do that until after I retire in another 10 years. I always attend the 'glass' workshops at Oskosh and Sun'n'Fun. I almost got a LongEz when I bought my Kachina as I had sat in one and really liked it but had been told horror stories by the owner of purchasing a used one so I got the Kachina (he later sold his through Trade-a-Plane even though it had been sitting right next to mine and was flooded as well....which makes me even more skittish about buying a used one). I had planned on building the Berkut but they went out of business and now I wish I had bought the kit even without the time or place to build it when they were active.

 

I like flying long cross countries VFR and have flown from Key West to Oskosh twice, Key West to St. Louis about 5 times, Sun'n'Fun almost every year to camp out under my wing, the Bahamas once, Talahassee every year, and mostly just out over the ocean and islands here in the Florida Keys. I like flying at night, especially on July 4th!

 

The problem is I weigh unfortunately nearly 250# and when I looked at the weight/balance on the small engine birds the CG range with no fuel weight limit is usually around 210# max.

 

My 'ideal' LongEz would have a great airframe, plain white paint, 0-320, doesn't even need a vacuum system as I would love to stick one of the new glass Aspen dual gauges in it anyway, Roncz canard, and switches/circuit breakers on the side panel with no unusual electrical systems (one on Trade-a-Plane now has 14/28 volt rigged system with multiple alternator switches and converters). Electric nose is a plus and I have tons of Mode C rings down here in Florida to fly through so a transponder would be good but I could have that put in later. The airframe is first. I have a budget of $60 to work with plus another $4K to cover the taxes. That will leave me with a few thousand extra to start working on panel upgrades and that should hopefully get me a top end bird. I would like the plans to come with it so I could make necessary repairs over the years. It would ideally come for a great builder who has had to move over to the Light Sport category that I hope I am 25 years from needing yet.

 

I realize that I will need some expert help to pick out a really good airplane and want my own plane again to stop renting but am willing to be patient and wait for a really good one to come along, even another year if you know of someone who is making the switch to Light Sport in the next 12 months with a great plane.

 

I really appreciate anything you can do to help me out with this. I see you in the Race 20 inbound video when I break that out ever few months to watch it. I don't really want to race (I think it would be fun and have the flying skills and would want to do it for that reason, I just don't want to stress any airplane engine I own like that because having been an airplane owner already I want to do the most I can to make the engine last).

 

Cheers,

Mitch

 

-----------------------------------------------

My emails to you on March 10:

Hi Beagle,

That looks nice from this angle. Do you have a panel shot as well and a price that he is asking (and other details). What do you charge as a finders fee for helping me with this?

Cheers,

Mitch

 

--------------------------------------------------

My email to you on March 11:

 

Hi again Beagle!

 

I guess we could start with some more details of the outside picture of the plane you sent 14DL. Do you have some panel shots of that as well? What about engine/airframe times? Performance specs? Asking price? etc.

Cheers,

Mitch

[Marc Zeitlin]

Thanks for the reply Lynn! I actually did send email to him...

Boy, it's REALLY bad form to post personal emails on public fora. I'll have to remember not to ever reply to you privately...

[ZUCZZ]

There is one for sale in South Africa, nice machine!

 

http://www.avcom.co.za/

 

go classifieds, look for "Rutan LongEze for sale"

 

or talk to the owner direct at "saupilot@telkomsa.net"

 

this is the link to the advert itself

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30617

 

Hope it works

[Neverquit]

Sounds like some communication gap Mitch. It sounds like maybe you should just wait for Dave to get back in a couple weeks and try to call him. Sounds like he's not looking for a friend but simply stalling with his replies from a hotel room. Seems like he wants more info about the buyer to make a good match. Or maybe he's just cranky from too much hot food, sun, and cervesas.

[Jon Matcho]

Boy, it's REALLY bad form to post personal emails on public fora.

Marc is right Mitch... bad etiquette, but don't beat yourself up. Just consider that your first faux pas.

 

I think Neverquit hit the nail on the head. Sounds like you just need to wait for David to get back and spend some time on the phone with him.

 

Good luck!

[Lynn Erickson]

I could use some help from the forum if you all have a minute. I am in the market for a really, really good Longez 0-320 (preferably Roncz canard and plain white, no fancy panel needed, reliable airframe and engine) and have budgeted enough to get a nice one by comparing prices of available ones for sale on Barnstormers, Trade-a-Plane, and Controller (it is just that I have called on all and they all have some serious issues for the 0-320s available like crashes, non-standard 28/14 volt electric system, no speed brakes, or years of sitting, no landing lights, etc. and I am budgeting for a good one and not a fix-er-upper).

 

 

 

 

 

If any of know of a really good ship available or coming up (I suppose I can wait a few more months as I have waited so long already and did not want to pick from the 3 I see available on Barnstormers or Controller or Trade-a-Plane as they all have some bad issues after I called the owners/builders and did some research on them) I would really appreciate any help and I am not really interested in the Varieze and am pretty strongly biased toward the 0-320 and Roncz because I go about 240#. I just want a good safe, stable frame from maybe someone who is ready to convert to light sport or move up to

 

mitchsnider@mac.com

These are homebuilts and no two are alike as far as options go, and there are not that many O-320 that were built as O 320's, most were converted from O-235 powered flying aircraft. finding one with all the option you would like could be like finding a needle in a haystack. many people think you can go out and buy and fly as you would a certified aircraft. there may be the rare exception out there but most of them are an on going experimental project that is never finished. they require constant maintenance for which there is no standard manual, no standard spec used to determine the original condition , and no guaranty that it was built to an acceptable condition in the first place. Most of the buyer / flyers that I know bought an aircraft that was close to what they wanted and had a qualified person do the modifications that they required. some have bought aricraft with the intent to do many mods but after they had flown the aircraft found that the mods they originally had in mind were not really a good idea after all.

Good luck in your search.

[MitchSnider]

I want to thank everyone who has been sending me such a wonderful list of tips to look for and questions to ask about purchasing an aircraft. I will add that here to help anyone else that may be looking.

 

I want to publicly apologize to David Orr ‘Beagle’ for the posts and an apparent huge miscommunications technical error. I was receiving a reply from him which would simply contain an attachment of an MSWord document of the LongEZ from his website for instance. There was no text in the email at all though on my end. David appended copies of the text that he had been trying to send in those original emails to me in another email today that showed what he was originally sending back to me with all of his replies. We have been sending the originals back and forth from different computers today and it still is not making the trip so neither of us are sure what is going wrong there. David thought I was simply not responding to the text he had sent and I was thinking they were just an attachment only or the short lines of text that I outlined above. I am publicly very sorry for any confusion this has caused.

 

Here is a list of the tips though that I had received before today summarized that might help others in their own search:

 

Asking Price?

 

Pictures of airplane / panel / side panel / interior can be sent?

 

Builder’s name?

 

Past owners list?

 

Is it ready to fly right now?

 

Fixes needed now or at next conditional?

 

Date of last conditional?

 

Corrosion level and checks on metal parts?

 

Cruise and fuel burn performance?

 

Logs complete?

 

Damage history or incidents?

 

Areas deviated from plans?

 

Any burnt/melted landing gear heat melting from brakes? Heat shield in place?

 

Night flying: Landing lights? Panel lights? Position lights? Strobe?

 

Max front seat weight for weight and balance throughout fuel quantity envelope?

 

52 Gal Fuel?

 

Aluminum parts alodined / primered during construction?

 

Canopy clear? Cracks/crazing?

 

Empty Weight?

 

Prop: Wood or Composite? Leading edge condition (rain protection strip?) Is it a ‘performance propeller?

 

Any bubbles, bulges, cracks at wing attach points or other spots, delaminating?

 

Why selling?

 

Plans included with plane to make spare parts?

 

Cabin heat works?

 

Cabin radio speaker?

 

All switches/circuit breakers/fuses labeled?

 

Whiskey Compass?

 

12v accessory plug?

 

Hands off flying flying characteristics?

 

Roncz canard or GU?

 

Flying through moisture response?

 

Where is it based?

 

Hangared?

 

 

 

MAIN THINGS TO LOOK FOR:

 

Definitely go for the 0-320 160 hp variant!

Empty weight: 950 lbs (not over 1000 though or it will be a dog)

Roncz canard preferred

Builder / seller history: not more than one level from builder

Heat shield on gear legs for brakes.

LongEZ experienced A&P to look it over before spending anything.

 

Cheers,

Mitch

[Waiter]

One very important item missing from the list:

 

Would the sellor be willing to do the purchase through an Escrow Agent.

 

Personally, I will not buy any aircraft without the protection of an Escrow Agent. Check out AOPA web site for details and costs.

 

Waiter

[Edge 513]

And you didn't list a mini-bar...so you're going to end up with a rummy airplane anyway. or not, rather. Forget the whiskey compass.

I always liked that word 'rummy', good substitute for crappy.

Ask any buldrer worth his salt...he'll have cupholders and a mini-bar for mass quanities of pretzles and cold Evion in his Cozy as a top modification.

Dingle balls, thats the other feature not on your list.

Dude, get with it.

[macleodm3]

Gosh, this group, we have some issues.

[Big Steve]

You figure out what you want make a list I will tell you how much it will cost and I will build one for you exactly like you want. We both will be happy you get an awsome Longeze I make enough money to finish my Cozy IV and continue being a building junkie. STeve

[rickh]

Ask any buldrer worth his salt...he'll have cupholders and a mini-bar for mass quanities of pretzles and cold Evion in his Cozy as a top modification.

You mean I should bring 'ready made' pretzels in the bag when (if) I fly my tub to RR? Wouldn't it be a whole lot cooler if people just strolled up to my tub and hit the dispenser?

Dingle balls, thats the other feature not on your list.

Fuzzy dice! Now why didn't I think of that?

 

Though a bit terse, I found his list interesting.

 

Rick

 

ps: what's wrong if I fill my compass with whiskey? or rum (for the Gurlz)? Or gin (for moi)?