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Aero-Cad vs. Cozy IV


David Pierce

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Hello,

 

Jeff's never quick with his email. Try calling him, he generaly picks up on the first few rings.

 

Jeffs plans seem to be more up to date than the Cozy. He will also be offering an ammendment section on his plans that covers safe and common modifications to the Cozy i.e. front tilting canopy.

 

Don't let the $50 dollar difference be your deciding point.

 

Many people like Jeff and talk well of him. Nat Puffer isn't one of them.

 

Nat seems to know a lot but he can also be a little gruff.

 

I think that most of my builder support comes from fellow builders vs. the owners.

 

Check the archives at Cozybuilders.org. More info than one human can handle.

 

 

Nathan,

Cozy IV project.

 

Redheaded Stepchild of The Canard Community :bad:

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>Does anyone have an update?

I guess the latest is on the Cozy site www.cozyaircraft.com under "Look-a-like designs". What it comes down to is that Cozy Development and Aerocad have a written, court enforced agreement which you can read on Aerocad's web site. Nat says the agreement is terminated with cause, and Aerocad says is still in force. I think it's up in the air legally until there's a formal ruling to say otherwise.

 

>Does anyone have any experience with Aero-Cad?

I visited Aerocad three or four times during the past 4 years. Jeff and Greg were always VERY friendly, helpful and easy to get along with. I didn't buy any parts, other than a set of gear doors, mainly because wanted to save money and I enjoyed building the parts myself. The parts I saw there seemed to be very well made. The molded parts would probably have saved me a lot of finishing work.

I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net

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>Does anyone have any experience with Aero-Cad?

 

I've purchased a number of their products, and can say unequivocally (sp?), they were of excellent quality. Jeff and Greg have always been willing to lend a helping hand in the advice/support department as well. Only wish more companies used their M.O..

 

FWIW

"I run with scissors."

Cozy MKIV N85TT

Phase One Testing

http://home.earthlink.net/~jerskip

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I'm building the AeroCanard. It has more room in the back seat, many good and convenient premolded parts that save a lot of time. It is well worth the money for me. Jeff really knows the airplane and the business but he has tired of the negative comments and has been persuing other projects right now. I still think parts and plans are availible. Try his cell Phone 772 460 8027.

Long Ez, AeroCanard

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I don't know Jeff @ AeroCanard, but I can say I was VERY interested in what he had to sell. After some research, the problem, for me, became wondering whether AeroCanard would be in business years from now. I once was close to buying a Berkut kit, a great Long-EZ kit, but they closed doors.

 

The result has been my decision to buy Cozy plans, control the manufacturer (me), and build as I see fit. Given the last reply here, I wouldn't feel at all comfortable calling someone's mobile phone as opposed to a full-time place of business.

 

Calling Co-Z Development and having Nat Puffer pick up the phone convinced me that I'd have everything I needed in his plans. His plans are now my plans, and I am moving forward without any worries whatsoever about anyone other than me.

 

Buy the plans, build it yourself.

 

Jon

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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  • 2 weeks later...

An update... browse to www.cozyaircraft.com, click the 'Look-a-like designs' link on the sidebar, and read the 8/29/03 news for the latest developments between Co-Z Development and Aerocad, Inc.

 

Jon

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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See below for the latest from the Aerocad web site. I also wanted to point out that I have nothing against Jeff or Aerocad, and would consider purchasing prefab parts from anyone who provides good product and service. However, I remain convinced that the best approach is to buy Cozy Mark IV plans directly from Nat/ACS and manage your decisions from there...

 

Aerocad has gone thru some major changes. AeroCad was sold to a couple in the Denver area and their intent was to keep the factory at it's location in Ft Pierce, Florida. The sale was in October, 2002. In March this year, we were notified by these people that their home not selling back in the Denver and this was making their purchase with us more than they could handle. They had been fully trained and were making high quality parts. They walk out of the purchase of AeroCad and Greg and I were faced on what to do next. We talked to a few other people that were wanting to make parts for a living and found a new home for the factory. The factory has now moved to Naples, Florida. We have 2 qualified builders that wanted to start making parts professionally. I am going thru foreclosure to take the corporate stocks back. Parts and plans are still being sold at this time. Sorry for this confusion but we had no idea that these people were not going to work out. Thanks for your support and I will keep you posted on any up coming news.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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  • 1 year later...

All right guys, the first version of the plans are now up on the new AeroCad2.com website. This is a shareware set of PDF files that you

can download for reading or to print your own copy.

 

There are still some of the images not loaded correctly but I will keep updating the files as I find them. Some of the images are not as readable.

 

Have fun! :)

 

Jeff Russell / AeroCad2, LLC

772-370-2638

Jeff Russell / AeroCad Inc.

772-460-8020

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  • 2 weeks later...

All right guys...

Wow Jeff... you chose an interesting thread to dig up from the dead. In the year that has passed, I've since decided to purchase AeroCanard SB/FG plans AND have built AeroCanard FG-sized bulkheads!

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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  • 3 months later...

If interested? An now "the rest of the story" is on

www.AeroCad2.com It also has The official transcript of the

last court proceedings. AeroCad Inc is under contract

with AeroCad2 to purchase the remaining rights to the

AeroCanard Plans along with the Cozy plans. If this goes

thru, The free down loads will be turned off and only the

printed plans and drawings will again be for sale at the

higher price. If you have been dragging your feet, you better

hurry if you have not down loaded your copyand purchased the

drawings :envy:

 

Jeff Russell/ AeroCad2

772-370-2638

Jeff Russell / AeroCad Inc.

772-460-8020

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  • 1 month later...

The free down loads will be turned off and only the

printed plans and drawings will again be for sale at the

higher price.

I see the downloadable plans have been taken down from www.aerocad2.com, AND as far as I can tell the 'new' www.aerocad.com is not selling plans (at least not advertising on their Web site that they are). It appears that AeroCad is looking to sell kits and parts only (hopefully keeping a focus on canards).

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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I have placed the Shareware Downloadable version of the plans on my web site.

 

Goto www.iflyez.com, and look under DOWNLOADS, Aerocanard

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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I see the downloadable plans have been taken down from www.aerocad2.com, AND as far as I can tell the 'new' www.aerocad.com is not selling plans (at least not advertising on their Web site that they are). It appears that AeroCad is looking to sell kits and parts only (hopefully keeping a focus on canards).

 

Big things happening at Aerocad.

 

It is my understanding that plans, kits, parts, etc will soon be available as a one stop shopping experience, again, for the Aerocanard.

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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My guess is that the new AeroCad may be trying to play nice with the community at large by taking the plans controversy out of the picture -- out of sight, and out of mind. Just my suspicion/hope, but would be really nice if it were true and they do indeed renew the business of making Cozy and AeroCanard parts.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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My guess is that the new AeroCad may be trying to play nice with the community at large by taking the plans controversy out of the picture -- out of sight, and out of mind. Just my suspicion/hope, but would be really nice if it were true and they do indeed renew the business of making Cozy and AeroCanard parts.

 

Yes, Jon, what you said.

 

I visited Al (the new owner) about 3 weeks ago and saw a bunch of newly minted strakes (looked very high in quality), as well as a shop benig assembeled in a large hanger for the new business. Al seems to be moving along well with this new venture, if not at great speed. he seems to be covering all the bases and seems very positive about what he will be able to do and what his new company will provide. They are making my SX kit. I am now reviewing the videos (on DVD).

 

I will, from time to time, keep all informed about my experiences with them, on this and canard community.

 

At this point I am cleaning out my hanger to begin construction of this, my second glass airplane (first was a dragonfly). My bulkhead templates and preliminary cutting of bulkhead foam and firewall is completed. Hopefully the parts will arrive toward the end of june, so I can start, in eranest, after the marriage of my son. (Although I would like sooner)

 

Al is an aeronautical engeneer, currently with Boeing on the F-15 project, his resume includes working with the Eclipse team. He is located on the Bowling Green (MO) airport which I believe he owns (or gave to the city to get it paved). Give him a chance to get this endeavor started and moving and I think his presence will be very positive for canardians.

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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They are making my SX kit. ... At this point I am cleaning out my hanger to begin construction of this, my second glass airplane (first was a dragonfly).

Congratulations on that move! Tell us about the SX kit... is it basically an AeroCanard FG with new top and forward opening canopy? Any better pictures than what they show on the Web site? I'm trying to imagine how you get in and out, but think that the SX top shown on their Web site gets cut at some stage of assembly.

 

I am now reviewing the videos (on DVD).

Lucky! I bought those big bulky VHS tapes. I need to watch one to see how the AeroCanard kit pulls off a front bench seat. Not sure if I'd want that anyway though -- maybe.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Have you received any flak for that yet? Do you expect to?

As long as I uphold the conditions of redistribution that are clearly define in the material, I don't see any problems.

 

My Web host may start charging me more if the downloads continue at the pace they have been! :o

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Rich,

 

Is Aerocad making you just the SX top? or the whole Magilla... I am interested in the top...looks nice..I checked the website, did not see anything WRT price for the SX top.

 

JD

 

Greetings,

 

Having Been through the whold mouldless making with my dragonfly, I decided to have them make the whole Magilla.

 

The SX top is available separately for about $2725 and mates with the Tub that they make which is wider in the back. I believe that someone is adapting one to the standard homebrew bottom, and that was listed on their website. Looking at it today, the site seems to have changed, however it is probably still available and the fact that it has been done before means that doing it again is probably possible. Give Al a call.

 

I have seen the molds. They are really beautiful and seem to be first rate work.

 

Since Al has just started, (still installing ventalation in the construction hanger,) and is going through the training, there might be a little wait for the part. It seems, however, as if it will be worth it.

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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Congratulations on that move! Tell us about the SX kit... is it basically an AeroCanard FG with new top and forward opening canopy? Any better pictures than what they show on the Web site? I'm trying to imagine how you get in and out, but think that the SX top shown on their Web site gets cut at some stage of assembly.

 

Lucky! I bought those big bulky VHS tapes. I need to watch one to see how the AeroCanard kit pulls off a front bench seat. Not sure if I'd want that anyway though -- maybe.

Thanks John,

 

the only difference, that I can see, at this point, is that it is a different top, the windscreen is less pointed, & higer with different back windows. The top comes as one piece from the nose cover (nose ocne is separate) throgh the top cowl. Inconstruction, you separate the pieces. I believe that he forward opening canopy is a selection that you make while constructing it. The Aerocanard uses 600X6 tires although you can use 500X5s. They suggest a nose mounted oil cooler for cabin heat.

 

Jeff uses a lot of Triaxial and some Biaxial in the construction, great materials if you handle them correctly, however you must use special caution when handling the tri-ply since it is easy to disrupt the Uni layer necessitating straightening with plyers. Handled properly the upset doesn't happen. It is a real time saver. In my dragonfly I used Biaxial with an overlayer of UnD.

 

The hanger will be ready this weekend. My glass rack (made of PVC pipe) and plastic is done. My construction table is also complete. The majority of the templates for bulkheads are finished and the foam is cut, soon to be glassed.

My epoxy box (masonite with a light bulb) is finished and I am testing the temperature stability that I can achieve.

 

In addition, my wife has stopped calling the project the "are you out of your Fu----g mind thing" to "that plane" :bad: In the past 38 years she has suffered with 8 other planes, 3 of them surprises.

 

things are getting exciting

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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the windscreen is less pointed

What/where is the windscreen on a Cozy/AeroCanard?

 

They suggest a nose mounted oil cooler for cabin heat.

I don't think this one is worth the effort or necessary. I read in a recent Cozy newsletter that someone improved the "standard" heat muff to have more than enough heat (t-shirts in winter).

 

Jeff uses a lot of Triaxial and some Biaxial in the construction, great materials if you handle them correctly, however you must use special caution when handling the tri-ply since it is easy to disrupt the Uni layer necessitating straightening with plyers. Handled properly the upset doesn't happen. It is a real time saver.

This is for the kit-built AeroCanard; the plans-built AeroCanard doesn't use either of these. Just FYI everyone.

 

In my dragonfly...

That had to be a fun and nimble plane. How long did that take you to build?

 

The hanger will be ready this weekend. My glass rack (made of PVC pipe) and plastic is done. My construction table is also complete. The majority of the templates for bulkheads are finished and the foam is cut, soon to be glassed. My epoxy box (masonite with a light bulb) is finished and I am testing the temperature stability that I can achieve.

You go! That sounds great. I have several week's worth of major property/dwelling upgrades to coordinate before building again, but after that I'll be year-round capable.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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What/where is the windscreen on a Cozy/AeroCanard?

 

I don't think this one is worth the effort or necessary. I read in a recent Cozy newsletter that someone improved the "standard" heat muff to have more than enough heat (t-shirts in winter).

 

This is for the kit-built AeroCanard; the plans-built AeroCanard doesn't use either of these. Just FYI everyone.

 

That had to be a fun and nimble plane. How long did that take you to build?

 

You go! That sounds great. I have several week's worth of major property/dwelling upgrades to coordinate before building again, but after that I'll be year-round capable.

 

With the standard aerocanard, the windshield seems to be more of an expanded Long-EZ (copied from the MK IV) type which comes more to a point on the front deck and expands out to the shape of the rear. The SX is more of a RV type affair, somewhat broad and I believe starting a little further forward and going higher before going horizontal. I did see the molds for both tops.

 

Al is now working on a new plug for this windscreen as adaptations of existing screens have proven unsuccessful.

 

Following the forums, I am having second thoughts, also about the nose mounted oil cooler. I will hedge my bets by installing the lines (very simple) in case I decide to use them. Some velocities use a nose oil cooler, with what degree of success, I am not sure.

 

The Kit built uses Triax and biax, among other places, for bulkheads, and uses 8 (I think) triax plys for the solid glass inserts on the main gear bulkheads as well as the landing gear pads (I think they use 16 plys for each layup here).

 

The dragonfly was indeed fun and nimble. Because I kept redesigning it, built 3 offices underwent lower spinal reconstruction and life, in general during its construction, I built it over a period of about 20 years. That which was learned there is: unless you are young and have lots of time left, go according to plans and let other people do the R&D for you. Although doing your own R&d is fun and rewarding, it burns up time like a cheap clock in a fire, especially after you spend months developing something which you think is real good, and after looking at it, decide that there is a simpler and more elegant way to accomplish the same thing.-- A vicious cycle. I conservatively estimate that in that one craft, I built at least 3 planes, throwing away two of them

 

It was ultimately powered by a Mid-west Rotary (nee Norton) Owned by Diamond with a 3 blade electric C/S Airmaster prop with warp drive blades.

 

Failure of engine to accelerate after a letdown to 1000' AGL resulted in an arrival, downwind in 35K gusting tail winds, on the short only available landing postage stamp which destroyed the aircraft but allowed me to walk away. When the aircraft came to a stop, the engine was still running, although unable to accelerate, ---albeit with a much shorter Prop.

 

Love that glass and the reclining seating position.

 

Year round capability is great. I have heat in my hanger, however I am not insulated and leaving the heat on for curing gets somewhat dear. Of course you could ask why I don't insulate--Reference the song of the Arkansas Travler--

 

I do have the capability of turning the heat on from my home, so that the hanger will be nice and warm by the time I get there (about 40 min). The hanger is at ENW, (kenosha Wi)

when I get the major parts, I will post it and everybody is welcome to view, criticize and possibly help.

 

Even though I am still sick today, and played hookey from my office, I probably will go out to the hanger to finalize things. (priorities has priorities)

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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Rich;

 

If you have the ability and inclination, creating a builder-log website for your kit would be very useful to the community at large. I think the Aerocanard is more or less invisible simply because nobody's out there on the web with information like that provided by Slade, Zeitlin, etc. etc. etc.

 

I have Cozy plans, but I do admit that the kit-built route appeals to me. That's a whole debate in itself that has already taken place...builders of plans-built airplanes argue that it's not a significant time saver, and they may be right. But I wonder...since they haven't built a kit-built airplane, how can they say for sure?

======

Not started yet, maybe never will (currently having an affair with an RV project...shhh...don't tell my set of Cozy plans)....

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