Rutan Designs

[DavidHawks]

Check this out.

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4103

 

#1 post asks why there are not many Long EZ's present at flyin's.

Read the #5 post! Maybe he needs to show up at the Rough River flyin!

[TMann]

#1 post asks why there are not many Long EZ's present at flyin's.

Quite simple really ............. I'm currently building Long-EZ Plans#1668 (which I puchased over 20 years ago.)

What would the latest Cozy plans serial number be?

[Chairboy]

I got mine 3 years ago, #1432.

[rickh]

#1477 here. Ryan recently purchased #1552. Suspect someone is close to buying #1600 'bout now.

 

Rick

[Vortal]

What i love (not) of the guy that posted post #5 and some of you guys also (you'll reconize yourself) is that endless amount of pessimism : it's always "nah don't do that it useless, you'll only gain a few percent, keep it with the good old 30 years old design, works fine!

Agree, it works fine, but 30 years ago, gas was much more cheaper (i couldn't say who much, i wasn't even born!)

Now days, running after each percent is worth it, but you need to come out with new solutions, walking away from that nice paved well known road and try new more rough paths

try more efficient airfoils, smoother aerodynamics (or just different approaches), weight savings...

I do agree that all of this has a cost, but nothing is free any more, so the final question is, what can you afford ($$$$ of gas or $$ of airframe) to keep on flying without busting your not so unlimited budget?

 

That's were i'm going, it's about experimental aircrafts isn't it?

[Vortal]

Sorry if i was a bit aggressive, I'm dealing with Cm's an airfoil right now, trying to understand the eppler mod, and it's heavy for the brain,

I'll open a new post i think...

[ZUCZZ]

We presently have 17 flying canard types in South Africa ...

 

Please peruse and correct me where you can :-)

Latest updated summarised information so far we are 17 flying Canard Planes (sure hope this is mostly correct)

 

CapeTown / Weideman W / ZS-VPB / VariViggen

FASI / Malcolm Laing / ZS-WVF/ VariEz

xxxx / Adcock M A / ZS-UJU / VariEz

xxxx / Van Rensburg S I / ZS-UKV / VariEz

FAQT / Sahd Mark / ZS-UKI / VariEz

FASY Marco Schmidt ZU-xxx / Velocity XL (?)

FABB / Alfons Gessl / ZU-DZU / Velocity XL

FASY / Chris Van Hoof / ZU-CZZ / Cozy Mk 4

FALA / Jannie Versfeld / ZU-DAR / Cozy Mk 4.540

FABB / Dave King & Chris Carsten / ZS-VUF / Long Ez

FAKR / Dave Lister / ZS-UWT / LongEz

FASH / Shawn Uren / ZS-VFA / LongEz

xxxx / Alison G L / ZS-USS / Long Ez

xxxx / Steinkamp / ZS-WNN / LongEz

Swazi / Dave O'Neil / ZS-VMX / LongEz

xxxx / Allison G L / ZS-USS / Long Ez

FAHC / Von Schoenebeck ZU-AND / Bateleur

 

 

This is as good as I can do with the research in our South Africa ... of course there are a lot under construction ... but not counted here!

 

Chris Van Hoof - Architect - Johannesburg

ZU-CZZ / Cozy Mk IV / latest info on:

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/cvh/index.htm

[bferrell]

The Velocity is ZU-CYJ of Marco Schmidt (a Long Wing "173" RG)

 

http://wiki.velocityxl.com/index.php?title=ZU-CYJ

 

 

His site is at http://www.usda.co.za/

[ZUCZZ]

Thanks for that info, unfortunately I can't update my earlier post

[Arbiter]

I do notice quite a bit of pessimism from people about modifying these aircraft. I am not sure if it's more of "Don't do anything that if you blow up you smear good names" or if it's more of "These plans were perfect when they were made, why would you ever dream of changing them". Maybe it's neither...

 

Also, since they are 30 years old, can one of these guys get their airfoil designs properly digitized?!?! I have been searching day and night for a data file containing points for the Cozy IV, Aerocanard, wing and canard airfoils. I know they are not the same as the original Epplers, so I want to get them right when I do my 3D model. This way I can have some configuration control when I do modifications, and I can see in real-time the implications my choices are making.

 

I am curious though, why did Rutan stop selling plans and such? I thought Long EZ plans were very popular...

 

Anywho, I am just rambling at this point in my post... Anyone care to share either the moment they decided to build, Very first day of build, when they got plans the first time experiences.

 

For me, it has been a long road. I guess when I was very young my Opa kept showing me kitplanes magazines. Every year we would go through the special section with the plans you could buy or the kits. He always said he was going to do it. He wanted to build a small easily buildable plane, I did not. I wanted something fast, sleek, and kick butt, drop your jaw on the tarmac when you see it aircraft (They don't sell plans for a 1/3 scale Tomcat do they? ). He even build his house with a large enough basement especially for it. Unfortunately, we never did build a kit plane, and he has since died. Fast forward to a few months ago. I met a person at my work who was building a Cozy. He and I have been talking for a while now, sometimes at great length about his endeavor. I then remembered what my Opa and I had planned to do, but never did. I decided then, that no matter what, I was going to get a kit, and build it. It may sound corny, kinda like "For Grandpa" ish, but it's not the primary reason for me doing so, only a catalyst. I realized recently, that I have been ignoring my basic need for flight. I've been licensed since 17, and it has been on the back-burner since I've been in school, gotten married, and have a full-time job. NO MORE. I can't ignore one of the fundamental parts of my life that brings me great joy. So, I hope that building a plane will give me reason to continue flying (And keeping current hopefully) and a goal at the end of a long adventure. I hope my wife gets on-board with me and helps and supports me in my build. I know I can find the time if it's a priority, and I think I can find the money over time to do it the way I would like to. We'll see, But enough of my rambling. Hope to hear some others' stories! Take care!

 

-Chris Z.

[ZUCZZ]

"...I wanted something fast, sleek, and kick butt, drop your jaw on the tarmac when you see it aircraft..."

 

Then the Cozy is your plane or similar design. Suggest you build something w 4 seats ... keeps the family together for longer

[Arbiter]

 

Then the Cozy is your plane or similar design. Suggest you build something w 4 seats ... keeps the family together for longer

Only going to have 1 youngling, and not enough useful load for the family... We're bigger, not the same size as the "Perfect 170 Lb" person aero engineers plan for .... If I want to take the family somewhere as a whole we'll drive or fly commercial/air taxi. Let's be realistic, unless you have a fairly large aircraft (Above 172 or warrior size) it's not comfortable on longer trips, and on top of that, you can't carry full fuel with more than 2 grown people in there, so no point on trips : ).... We'll see though, I am more interested in a plane for Boondoggling with my wife, my kid, or my friend. Maybe there will be room for 3, we'll see !

 

-Chris

[Jason Heath]

I am curious though, why did Rutan stop selling plans and such? I thought Long EZ plans were very popular...

To add to the pessimism, "YOU" would be my first answer and your right, the Long was very popular if not the MOST popular plans built plane to date and was supported by RAF for more than twenty years, and Nats support of the Cozy line until 2004.

 

Neither plane or plans were perfect but they were designed and tested as such and attemting the changes your talking about would have gotten you a very cold shoulder from either of the designers.

 

Liability, lawsuits and the desire to move on to other things would be my guess. Some folks are asking you to name your creation something else for a good reason, you truely are experimenting! While you'll receive alot of "what if's" around here from some very knowledgable folks, you won't find anyone that is going to draw you a pretty pictures of how it all goes together, not for free at least.

 

Nice story and good luck!

[ZUCZZ]

Man, am I ever glad Nat Puffer did what he did and helped me to get what I wanted!!! Can't tell you people how much I appreciate my Cozy!

[Edge 513]

Thanks ZUCZZ- thats a very common sentiment among those who actually FINISH the airplane and FLY the airplane. THe plans plane IS a PROVEN aircraft that enjoys a record that allows it to be insured without huge expense. When somebody modifies it, it shouldnt be called exactly a Cozy and jeopardize the insurabilty.

The huge majority of guys just LOOKING at the airplane and dreaming, DONT build it...but they are the guys who post the most.

...or they post that their few starting first years of 'changes' to the plans are reverberating through the aircraft and it is a much bigger job than they thought.

Its hard enough just building the plane to plans. Building this plane for 7 years in an unknown/untested configuration is a real leap of faith. I think it wears some guys out. Since it is a plans bird, all the new guys think that its easy to do what ever they want with it. After a year usually they are tempered due to the realization of how huge the task is. I too was thinking like this.

 

Not to rain on the parade, but this has just shown up many many times as guys sell their projects at the tub stage...or modified tub stage..and they dont even recapture their materials expense in their sale. Reality is reality. It takes a lot of effort for many years to actually BUILD. It takes little effort to do otherwise.

[emteeoh]

.

The huge majority of guys just LOOKING at the airplane and dreaming, DONT build it...but they are the guys who post the most.

I resemble that remark.

[Big Steve]

I think that guys without plans who seem to post the most want to build but are not for what ever reason. Those of us who are actually building dont have time to do all that posting we are busy in the shop making the dream. STeve Build on

[Edge 513]

Dreams are important. Dreamers are important. Vision is needed or one cant even muster up a good future to pursue. But one great guy comes to mind in all of this and that is Drew's story. Drew held off for a longggg time. Went to Australia and had a mental crossroads, travel with wife and see the sights or Television all evening, or build??? Now that he has been building for several months he is doing GREAT...and he wishes he had started earlier. He also started documenting everything with a laborious webpage and cool computer updates...and then gave it up because it took to much TIME. He found out about building, by building, not typing. And now he has a tub, instead of dreams.

 

So thats the stuff...that TIME thing. THe modifications however small and simple to the plans plane take time and reverberate through the the airplane taking MORE time and make things difficult. If a guy is a builder and less of a flier, maybe the guy is happy, but maybe it all becomes to onerous, and draggggggs him down.

 

I am just bringing up this as it is said about every 6 months to try and breath reality back into the forum. At the risk of personal injury...ask John [this forums owner] about his difficulties building...its a big enough project just building it to plans, let alone creating a 'one off' airframe that 'seems' like no big deal. Build for a year and then see how much vim and vigor you've got in ya...it's a real test of your commitment.

If you love modifications, it may be the Achilles heel to your finishing a good aircraft.

[Arbiter]

If you love modifications, it may be the Achilles heel to your finishing a good aircraft.

It could be, on the other hand, these mods can inherently become part of an adventure. One of the nice things about plans is the brush it gives you is virtually limitless in possibility. Now, like you said, if you mod too much, that's going to cost you in time, and that is the consequence. Another potential consequence is safety, and re-work. For me, I have pretty much settled on Aerocanard plans, the SX version, which gives me the added comfort I want pretty much per plans . The modification I am going to do has more to do with cockpit layout than structural changes, so I am very confident that with thought (And a little 3D modeling) I can do the mods I want without much trouble. Actually, with only 1 person in the front there should be more room for controls and such, and in the back there will be the "stock" room for controls with the added Aerocanard comfort . I think as long as mods aren't delving too deep (Notice I didn't say at all) into the structural aspects of the plan, then they should be executable without too much hassle. Of course, as one would point out, I am only armchair at this point, but I think once I get into the build, I will know a lot better what my limitations are. The designs are certainly timeless, but as always, can be improved upon. I say, if people want to build to plans, awesome, they get into the air faster and it may suit them just fine. I am a tinkerer by heart, and I look forward to spending countless hours in a Mock-up Cockpit laying everything out ... I will be satisfied doing this (Ah the child in me comes back out!) because it gives me pause to think long and hard about every detail, which will allow me to build a better and safer plane in the end! Good luck to all those who have started already, and for those of us who are still just dreaming, don't give up on the dream, there's always a way to make it happen! Night, errr I mean Morning, all!

 

-Chris Z.

[ErlendM]

I am working on chapter 3 now, so I am a real newbie here. I chose the Cozy because of "...I wanted something fast, sleek, and kick butt, drop your jaw on the tarmac when you see it aircraft..." and the possibility to have my wife and kids in the plane and not to mention that I can finance the plane as I build.

 

My way so far has been reading ALOT on the net, I've gone through many builders websides and read the different forums. I bought the plans and have read all the newsletters from #73 to the last one. I am now starting with the first on the CD (#4 actually). I have looked through the plans, read some chapters and just skimmed the others. I have had the pleasure to fly an E-Racer this summer so I believe I know what I am up to.

 

I also had many modifications planned in my head, but again and again I remember the phrase "do you want to fly or do you want to spend your time building" - even though I enjoy building very much. The goal for me is to fly the plane, and when I know the original design - with the changes from the newsletters and mail-group - is well-proofed the choice is easy. "If it works - don't fix it!".

 

My main problem has been getting the proper materials since I don't live in the US. Seems I have found sources for the most now. I have even got help from Nat! Now I am finished with my bookstand and my kids was SO impressed. I am mentally ready to start on chapter 4, as soon as I get my papers back from my local FAA. And I will stick to the plans. At least for now...

[macleodm3]

Build your own airplane!?!?! Are you guys NUTS?!

My neighbor comes over once in awhile, Bill is his name, he runs a front end loader and loads coal trucks at work. He built his own barbeque grill and does cookouts on the weekends, so you'd THINK he would understand. He just stands there, kinda dumbfounded looking, and says, "so, you really gonna ride around in this thing?" YEAH! I say... you coming with me? "mmm,,, , i dunno."

 

I just am so glad we're able to build our own airplanes.... it seems so out there.

 

 

I remember in the summer of '02, when I first realized that building one of these beautiful Canards was even a distant possible reality. (first saw one in Oshkosh, 2001)

 

The mods I knew I was gonna do....

wider fuselage

retract gear

front hinge canopy

mazda turbo rotary

 

Now, I'm not doing ANY mods, maybe Cozygirrrl strakes, and hopefully the typical bolt on mods (elect nose gear, Matco brakes, fuel injection).

 

Its really nice, for me, to have a set of plans that works. Something as simple as as a fuel valve mounting bracket. I was sure I was gonna mount a fancy Andair up front, ala Wayne Hicks.... but I've got the old plane jane $24 valve, boringly monted at the front seat back.... how BORIng. But its there, its finished, it works.

 

I have seen WAY TOO MANY BUILDERS dissapear, and I don't want to be one of them that just fades away.

 

I have a wife who supports the build, but doesn't help actually build.

 

Now, Chris, how does your family feel about the build? Thats truly the main issue, ample funding... No, not Cash... funding the build with your time. For some, it may take awhile to get family cooperation for a project like this.

[macleodm3]

We need to all go back and look at the posts of 2002, or even 2005. Many of those builders have dissapeared... Where are they? A few are flying through the skies at 200mph, some are still chugging along, building the aircraft of their dreams. The rest... floating aroung in the nether. I am going to finish (it'll be awhile though, a 6 yr old and another daughter on the way... but I'm looking forward to flying them to college).

[CBarber]

Been here since June of 2002, chugging along on the project. Even with my strake/Jeffco problem, still fighting the good fight. I REALLY need to update my webpage though. I have just been too busy building and dating...both can be really exhausting

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[Edge 513]

You are one of those 'pillars' in our community Constable/Esquire Barber...thanks for hangin' in the group.

[CBarber]

Heh, really? Thanks. Guess those pillars are built on set backs Hey, it is a learning experience...one that is about to cost me some bills as I order more Jeffco, EZ-84 and fiberglass from Aircraft Spruce.

 

All the best,

 

Chris