Steve Innova Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Has anyone considered adding aerodynamic speed brakes to the strakes or wings? Something like this perhaps: http://preciseflight.com/products/speedbrakes/mooney_m20 http://preciseflight.com/products/speedbrakes/experimental Lancair sells their assembly for $3,200, but surely it can be made/acquired for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Has anyone considered adding aerodynamic speed brakes to the strakes or wings?Why would you want these? Why do you think they use them on the Lancairs (and Mooneys, etc.)? Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Innova Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 I would assume, to reduce speed, maintain glideslope, etc... I don't particularly, not for $3,200 at least! All though they do look pretty snarky. But I am curious to know if anyone had implemented strake mounted speed brakes vs. the belly board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Steve: One of the things you have to remember about canard aircraft is that there is a relationship between the front wing and the back wing. You mess that relationship up and Your canard is no longer a stall proof nose bobbing sleek eze to land plane. It could easily turn it into a large lawn dart. I am not saying it can't be done but at what expense and why is it necessary? These planes if set up right can drop like a rock if you need to loose some altitude fast. I used to do it in my Longeze all the time. I road with Marc Z. at Rough River last year we were a little high on final he cranked it over on its side and started a beautiful slip it dropped like the proverbial rock and we landed right on the numbers. Why do we need speed brakes in the wings? STeve build on. Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Steve: One of the things you have to remember about canard aircraft is that there is a relationship between the front wing and the back wing. You mess that relationship up and Your canard is no longer a stall proof nose bobbing sleek eze to land plane. It could easily turn it into a large lawn dart. I am not saying it can't be done but at what expense and why is it necessary? These planes if set up right can drop like a rock if you need to loose some altitude fast. I used to do it in my Longeze all the time. I road with Marc Z. at Rough River last year we were a little high on final he cranked it over on its side and started a beautiful slip it dropped like the proverbial rock and we landed right on the numbers. Why do we need speed brakes in the wings? STeve build on. Additionally you have rudders that can both be deployed outward Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloflight Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Here are a few pics of a canard I believe its a berkut with f-16 style split speed brakes on each side of the cowling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Innova Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 those look cool, but unnecessarily heavy and complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverquit Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 All though they do look pretty snarky. In the eye of the beholder I guess. Lots of snarky that can't fly too. Snarky is as snarky does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiter Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 those look cool, but unnecessarily heavy and complex. If this were a standard LongEZ with fixed gear and prop, I would totally agree. However, in this particular case, they are highly desirable, maybe even mandatory. The aircraft in this photo is equipped with a turbine engine and has retractable gear. Very difficult to slow this plane down without the use of the drag devices. As for the Mooney style flip ups. Very desirable if you own a Mooney. Mainly, to get the airplane slowed down to gear speed. Once the gear is hanging in the breeze, the drag devices are virtually useless. The problem with the LongEZ isn't slowing down to gear speed, as the gear is already "Down and Glued" :-). The problem is, even with the LongEZs gear hanging down, the aircraft is still to aerodynamically clean to allow for a normal approach angle when landing. However, with the drag device (landing brake) deployed, a normal approach angle can now be performed in the LongEZ. Waiter Quote F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract visit: www.iflyez.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelj Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 The old cliche applies Keep It Simple. I have a few hundred hours in a Cozy IV and did not need anything this complex or expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 The mindset sometimes seems- that this airplane needs 'fixing'. One of the latest was revamping the canard attach points..despite them working just fine. Another, redoing the rudder cables in cabon fiber.. despite the plans version not having any issues. Yet another is heavier stainless steel brake lines.. again the nylaflow are lighter and without issue. Or maybe a steerable nose wheel.. Lots of turn on a dime performance with plans braking turnability. Or a 3000mile bladder..now this would be appealing...for both me, my wife and the airplane. Heck I'm not immune- I just finished my FHC- so the shoe sometimes fits- and I wear it.=/ Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Heck I'm not immune- I just finished my FHC- so the shoe sometimes fits- and I wear it.=/Same here... I just read Marc Zeitlin mention that he's never heard of a Cozy Mark IV canopy warping due to temp changes like the Long-EZ (with the very long plexiglass) does. So no special carbon for me! Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 If you do do a FHC- I would suggest some CF on the inside and outside- but maybe I read your post wrong. Post scrip to my previous post is that by and large the airplane DOES NOT need any 'fixing'....and could be the perceived cure is worse than the perceived symptoms. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Innova Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 You all misunderstood my question. I asked if it anyone had done it, and stated, for $3,200, I wasn't considering it. Sometimes questions can be answered w/a yes or no, not a lecture on why it's not necessary to improve the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I think everybody understood it. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiter Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Has anyone considered adding aerodynamic speed brakes to the strakes or wings? Yes! Something like this perhaps: http://preciseflight.com/products/sp...kes/mooney_m20http://preciseflight.com/products/sp...s/experimental Yes! Lancair sells their assembly for $3,200, but surely it can be made/acquired for less. Yes! Waiter Quote F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract visit: www.iflyez.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Has anyone considered adding aerodynamic speed brakes to the strakes or wings? Something like this perhaps: http://preciseflight.com/products/speedbrakes/mooney_m20 http://preciseflight.com/products/speedbrakes/experimental Lancair sells their assembly for $3,200, but surely it can be made/acquired for less. You wanted an answer you shall recieve it. NO NOT NOW NOT EVER question answered Steve Build on Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverquit Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 You wanted an answer you shall recieve it. NO NOT NOW NOT EVER question answered Steve Build onIf you see him, don't ever piss this guy off. By the way Steve, did I ever thank you for the hammer at Rough River? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Big Steve- in caps- I guess you REALLY never considered them! Drag brakes on the wing instead of the belly board? Havent considered, but maybe throw eccentrics 'dame edna ' cat out there on final, and see if it helps. Plenty o' 'drag' happening there. I had at one time thought of putting holes in the belly board- but didnt think long about it. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Innova Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 Hmm... I guess my reply was a little terse. Sorry for that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverquit Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I had at one time thought of putting holes in the belly board- but didnt think long about it. I thought of doing something similar or maybe two outside the airflow to the NACA inlet. Just more complex, not necessary, and more time I can't spend flying the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I will now apologize for being capitalistic. I was in a bad mood I cut my pitot tube line while cutting out my ballast weight door it put me in a really bad mood for the last couple of days. Build on STeve Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverquit Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Steve, if fat letters is all the anger you posess, no damage done. Anyone who knows you know you're a good kid. Sorry about the pitot tube. Maybe sometimes you just need to put the chain saw down and pick up a sawsall....kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Steves such a do-it-yourselfer... I was going tomake a jab at him being more careful. Good thing it was his pitot line and not his vas deferens. bada- boom. btw- Steve- I liked those fotos you emailed me....the folks here might like to see your foam top finished. also- anybody who is having trouble with actually working on their plane, instead of talking about it..should not get near Steve- as his building pace will shame you to no end.=] Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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