Bid Tapes

[Cozy1200]

Ok so tonight I bid taped the bulkheads into the sides. IT'S STARTING TO LOOK LIKE AN PLANE!

 

look, a plane, a plane!

 

I marked the shape of the bid tapes on aluminum foil using a felt tip marker. Did the 2 ply bid and then used the dritz scissors to cut to size.

 

The problem I'm having is that the black lines is coming off onto the edge of the tapes. The black line is then visible in the final layup.

 

How is this to be avoided? I'd like to stick with aluminum foil.

 

 

 

ok maybe it doesn't look like a plane.

look, a bathtub, a bathtub.

[rickh]

My process:

 

Cut some BID a bit wider than needed. 5" for 2- 2" tapes.

Lay them on a piece of poly.

Drizzle epoxy on, move it around. Add a top sheet of poly, squeegee well.

Use the 2" blade of my framing square (the other blade is 1.5" BTW)

Slice one raw edge straight with a utility knife. Slice the other edge. Take to the build. Gently fold in half, crease lightly. Remove one layer of poly, apply to wet joint, press out the bubbles w/ a rag. Remove top sheet, stipple gently, peel-ply.

 

Rick

[rviglierchio]

Tape paper to the table. Draw your pattern (upside down). Cover with poly, taped down. Do your layups, cut out including the poly, apply.

A lot of builders mark the cloth itself for orientation etc. and don't worry about the marks. It gets painted.....

[Phil Kriley]

I guess they didn't get the note that you wanted to keep using the aluminum foil -

 

Draw your pattern on clear plastic and cut cloth that is slightly larger all around. Put down foil and lay the cloth on the foil and wet it out. I tape the foil to my workbench and tape the cloth to the foil to keep it from moving around while using the squeegee.

 

Lay your plastic sheet - ink side up - over the wetted (and squeegeed) cloth. Squeegee lightly - just to make the plastic stick to the layup, then cut it out. Now you have a nice clean tape WITH the aluminum foil still attached. Remove the plastic and apply your tape to your work - you get the benefit you desire of being able to fold the bid tape so that it goes into the corner better. Use your squeegee to smoth out the aluminum into the corner, then remove the aluminum foil. Makes a nice bid tape w/o the ugly ink mess. Add peel ply and you're done.

 

If you are making a 2-3 layer bid tape, do all the layers at the same time.

 

Hope this helps!

[argoldman]

I guess they didn't get the note that you wanted to keep using the aluminum foil -

 

Draw your pattern on clear plastic and cut cloth that is slightly larger all around. Put down foil and lay the cloth on the foil and wet it out. I tape the foil to my workbench and tape the cloth to the foil to keep it from moving around while using the squeegee.

 

Lay your plastic sheet - ink side up - over the wetted (and squeegeed) cloth. Squeegee lightly - just to make the plastic stick to the layup, then cut it out. Now you have a nice clean tape WITH the aluminum foil still attached. Remove the plastic and apply your tape to your work - you get the benefit you desire of being able to fold the bid tape so that it goes into the corner better. Use your squeegee to smoth out the aluminum into the corner, then remove the aluminum foil. Makes a nice bid tape w/o the ugly ink mess. Add peel ply and you're done.

 

If you are making a 2-3 layer bid tape, do all the layers at the same time.

 

Hope this helps!

Phil,

 

Perhaps you or others can help me out.

 

I have never understood the purpose of the foil.:

 

I use 1mil poly, draw the pattern on it, wet the glass and refine cloth/epoxy ratio over that, the lines come through (if you use black Sharpie-- not blue), put another layer of 1 mil on top of that, pat down-creating a wet glass sandwich with poly bread and trim with dritz. Bring the sandwich to the spot, remove one of the pieces of plastic bread, push into place then remove the other. Stipple a little and you are done. (lightly epoxy the recipient site, of course.)

 

What advantage is the foil???????

[Phil Kriley]

Phil,

 

Perhaps you or others can help me out.

 

I have never understood the purpose of the foil.:

 

I use 1mil poly, draw the pattern on it, wet the glass and refine cloth/epoxy ratio over that, the lines come through (if you use black Sharpie-- not blue), put another layer of 1 mil on top of that, pat down-creating a wet glass sandwich with poly bread and trim with dritz. Bring the sandwich to the spot, remove one of the pieces of plastic bread, push into place then remove the other. Stipple a little and you are done. (lightly epoxy the recipient site, of course.)

 

What advantage is the foil???????

When you are making BID tapes that are going to be used in corners, such as for joining the fuselage bulkheads to the fuselage sides, the foil is great because you can bend (lightly crease) the foil down the center along it's length - with the wetted out cloth attached, of course - and apply it neatly into the joint.

 

It's a good technique - really makes for a neat BID tape. When you smooth out the foil before pulling it off, you can see a really smooth layup.

 

I only use foil for corners where being able to bend it and have it hold it's shape would be an advantage. Lately most of the time I just use the plastic sandwich method.

 

But for long BID tapes that need to go into corners - foil really makes the job easy. I use heavy-duty foil because the lighter stuff tears too easily.

[Kraig]

You must be talking of marks like these. I have just learned to live with them. They will get covered in the finish.

 

I have learned to make small dots instead of lines to minimize the look.

[rickh]

...I have learned to make small dots instead of lines to minimize the look.

When the epoxy hits my red marker marks, it turns a luscious pink. Been thinking on changing to a black marker...

 

Off topic, did you have to modify the main LG axle sleeve as shown in the last pix? Does it fit snug 'as made' or is a washer or trimming needed between the bulkhead bushings? I ask because my rough measuring between the surfaces indicates it's 'real close' on mine.

 

Rick

[Cozy1200]

You must be talking of marks like these. I have just learned to live with them.

Yeps, those are the marks. I know they'll get covered, but it bugs me non the less.

[Kraig]

 

Off topic, did you have to modify the main LG axle sleeve as shown in the last pix? Does it fit snug 'as made' or is a washer or trimming needed between the bulkhead bushings? I ask because my rough measuring between the surfaces indicates it's 'real close' on mine.

 

Rick

 

Rick,

 

There was no modifying needed to anything. When I put the sleeve's in, they fit perfect. One side was just snug, and the other you could put about 1 sheet of "bible paper" between. I wrote at the time that I was blown away about how if you follow the plans well, it all falls together. But honestly, I think it is the quality of the CG product parts that made it work so well. Those Girrrls ROCK! I won't admit to being that good!

 

Kraig

[Phil Kriley]

Rick,

 

There was no modifying needed to anything. When I put the sleeve's in, they fit perfect. One side was just snug, and the other you could put about 1 sheet of "bible paper" between. I wrote at the time that I was blown away about how if you follow the plans well, it all falls together. But honestly, I think it is the quality of the CG product parts that made it work so well. Those Girrrls ROCK! I won't admit to being that good!

 

Kraig

CG parts are great - I use them myself - but I had to add two washers to each side for a good fit. Keep in mind, there will ALWAYS be some variation because some folks squeegee better than others...

[rickh]

Rick,

 

There was no modifying needed to anything. When I put the sleeve's in, they fit perfect.

Thanks! I know I'm close to "machine fit" using plans lengths/thicknesses for the upcoming parts, but I can only measure with two 6" scales.

 

Back to your regularly scheduled topic...

 

Rick

[Neverquit]

Rick, mine was so tight I had to grind off a little bit from the aluminum plate. They're made so exact I think they vary by how much flox you put on the back of the plates.

 

 

Drew, many of us use or have used the pizza wheel cutter. That only requires a dot here and there to align the yard (meter) stick for the guide. Have you tried the fine tip sharpie?

[dirtdox]

Can't you just make your marks on the outside of your measurement and cut off the ink?

[Cozy1200]

Can't you just make your marks on the outside of your measurement and cut off the ink?

Most of the time I make up a couple tapes at once. So you cut one between them. Yes I do try to cut off the edges when possible.

 

I've also have tried to more things.

 

One I'm using an very fine tip permanent marker. It leaves a line no thicker than a ball point pin.

 

Also last night I did the bid layup on the DULL side of the foil. At this point I don't see any markings coming off. So this may be a solution.

[Big Steve]

Who cares about the lines. I am going to primer it grey and paint it white I have ink marks all over the thing but nobody will know when I am done.

build on STeve

[Cozy1200]

Who cares about the lines.

ME

 

I know it not affecting the plane structurally, but I think it looks sloppy. I'm not going to kill myself to not leave the marks, but if I can prevent is pretty easily, then I'll do it.

 

I'll be showing this plane off to people over the next 4-6 years and I feel taking pride is ones workmanship is a factor.