Wicks Aircraft

[marbleturtle]

I plan on giving AS&S a shot simply because the SE wharehouse is only about 2 hours away. But I plan on buying everything by line item. I think I want to stock up on the glass cloth and some of the fittings like John said. It will be next month, but I'll relay my experience with them.

 

On a side note, I mentioned to my wife that I was getting her an electric nose lift for Valentine's Day. Sheesh... she didn't take that very well!

[CBarber]

 

On a side note, I mentioned to my wife that I was getting her an electric nose lift for Valentine's Day. Sheesh... she didn't take that very well! [/b]

 

 

Some people have NO appreciation for the finer things. After all you were just thinking of her convienance. Hell, what would she want.....FLOWERS...you cant use those for nuttin' in the shop. What is she thinking??????

 

You may need a new wife

[David Pierce]

I am in the same situation as "MarbleTurtle", and may go either way with either Wicks or Spruce. Competition is best for all endeavors, and I am very glad that the forum was not turned over to Spruce as part of the sale. Talk about potential censorship...wow!

 

I know that commercializm on the forum is not allowed, but I would like to see Wicks join just like Jim Irwin did. Maybe some interesting thoughts for us newbies.

 

Best Wishes

[John Slade]

Scott Wick, Vice president of Wicks Aircraft just made a post on the Cozy list. I'd repost it here, but wouldnt want to ruffle any feathers, so I'll just invite him on over.

[John Slade]

Oh, by the way, Jim.

Do you think it might be possible to avoid mentioning human excrement (liquid or solid) in a couple of your future posts?

 

Thanks.

[Steve Davies]

Yes, all businesses will tend toward monopoly... Wick's is trying to compete. I don't see the problem there. I'm sure I'll be dealing with most of the suppliers out there, the best price for quality will win my money. Mr. Puffer has a popular design, and I'm sure the bidding for "authorized dealer" was hot. When the plans and kits and parts stop selling and/or making money, that is when you'll see the partnership dissolve.

 

Besides, one of the selling points of the Co-Z mkIV is that its plans-built. Once Ive got the plans, I can build the plane, parts dealer is MY choice. As for the updates in the newsletter, it is an inconvenience, but not insurmountable... Look at what goes on here - the information exchange, recommendations, a community of builders with tips and tricks and a whole slew of ideas to make things better.

 

I put no blame on businessmen trying to further their business, be he Mr. Irwin or Mr. Wicks. Either one will tell ya, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Compete or die.

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by John Slade

Oh, by the way, Jim.

Do you think it might be possible to avoid mentioning human excrement (liquid or solid) in a couple of your future posts?

Ha!

 

Just so that everyone knows, the forum is configured NOT to display certain four letter words, specifically **** and ****. We can expand the configuration to include first tier 4-letter words, but for now I think censorship of third tier cus words is good enough. The masses can sort it out.

[Richard Pryor]

I did a comparison of Wicks and ACS by chapter. It was very chapter dependent with regard to chapter cost and often they were well within range of each other. I have not yet called to order anything from Wicks. When I called ACS to get chapter list breakdown it did take two days and the sales person had to get someone else who knew what I was talking about. When we got it figured out the parts list was sent out immediately and received in a timely fashion. A set of headphones ordered from ACS were also received quickly. I do like and encourage competition between suppliers and will price compare as I build.

 

On another note, I have enjoyed the informative postings and learned a lot reading on line. The personal comments and tone that has come across lately is a real negative and doesn't truly reflect the quality or caliber of people on this site. As Itell the people who work for me, "Keep it professional and don't personalize every little thing. It only gets in the way of what we really need to do." Just my 2c worth.

[Cozy2do]

Originally posted by ekisbey

There's no link that I see that lists what's included in the kit you're ordering, so you're going on their word that it's correct.

 

I was able after 2 phone calls and an email to receive breakdown list from AS&S of what is in each chapter (see attached file). I placed just this week an order for ch4 - ch7. It looks like each chapter has one item on back order and she didn't know when they will get it. So I will have to wait and see when it ships. I'll keep checking. I'll try to make some fixtures in meantime....

I was pleased to read that Rui had good experience and everything was correct in his order because after placing my order I was comparing the AS&S list to the plans BOM and found few errors in AS&S list for ch5. Emailed this concern to AS&S couple days ago and so far didn't hear from them. Maybe they don't use this list to actually assemble the kit shipments. Maybe Jim I. can look into these errors.

 

John

cozy mk-ivcorrections.pdf

[Cozy2do]

Here is the list.

cozy mk-iv.pdf

[mlefebvre]

Posted with permission:

 

Dear Cozy builders and friends of Wicks:

 

Thank you for your overwhelming support of our company through this transition period regarding the sale and purchase of the Cozy AircraftCompany. I appreciate the loyalty of our customers standing up for us as the recent changes have taken place.

 

Some have been wondering what is going on at Wicks lately and I would like to take this opportunity to fill you in as best as I can. In September Jerome Hediger resigned from his position as general manager. I was made the Vice President of Wicks Aircraft and moved over to Aircraft from our Organ Company which is the building across the street. My position at Wicks Organ was Vice President and Sale Manager where I have worked for the last 18 years. I have been a pilot for over 20 years flying all types of airplanes from Tomahawks to Navajo's. I currently fly our company's Bonanza 767U. I and have worked at the Oshkosh and Sun & Fun Air shows numerous times over the years. Jerome and I continue to keep a friendly relationship with each other as we gave him the bike and trike business to continue with. He also continues to make the high quality plywood that we supply.

 

I am the first Wick in my family to participate in the management of the Aircraft Company. My predecessors have done a wonderful job building the company from a hobby to a formidable company. Most importantly they have built a wonderful relationship with you, our customers. What we, the owners of the company have failed to do is support this company with the funds it needed to grow and hold its own in the market place. Now that I am here, I can understand why people like Nat Puffer have said that Wicks Aircraft is just a hobby for the organ company.

 

We have hired Mr. Jim Kaiser to be our General Manager who comes to us from a career in the Air force with many years of aviation experience. Jim is very enthusiastic about working together to grow the business. You will soon see our new catalog which will have over three hundred new products in it. We have received great feedback from customers like you who have made suggestions for what we should carry and we appreciate any more suggestions that you have.

 

Many have asked us where we stand with Aircraft Spruce and Cozy. Aircraft Spruce did not accept our agreement. As I understand it, Spruce only bought the rights to reproduce the plans of the aircraft. Nat Puffer is still responsible for the design and support to the builders. Jim Irwin made it clear to me that Aircraft Spruce did not design the Cozy Aircraft and cannot provide engineering support, comment on changes in manufacturing or parts specification. Technical support is to be provided by Nat Puffer. Nat is still going to produce the newsletter as well. The verbal agreement that we had with Nat Puffer from the beginning of our association together was to pay him 5% commission on all Cozy Kit parts sold to Cozy builders. Nat in return was promoting our company equally as Aircraft Spruce and the other authorized distributors. No one of management from here ever made any agreement to pass on commissions to Aircraft Spruce. We have never seen the agreement between Aircraft Spruce and Nat Puffer.

 

Nat was giving us the list of names of people who bought Cozy plans, producing the Cozy newsletter and providing engineering and technical support to builders. I offered 3% commission to Aircraft Spruce instead of 5% since Aircraft Spruce is obviously not going to equally promote Wicks as themselves. Spruce won't be doing the newsletter nor, will they provide the builders support. The offer seems fair, less service equals less commission.

 

Since no agreement has been reached with Aircraft Spruce, we are continuing to honor the verbal agreement that we have had with Nat Puffer. We pay him an advertising fee for the newsletter and a commission for the parts we sell to Cozy builders. If he wants to give any or all of that to Spruce, that is his business. Jim Irwin doesn't like the agreement that I continue to honor with Nat. I don't understand why.

 

We also have received and should continue to receive a list of people who buy the Cozy plans. Time will tell if we continue to receive this list.

 

I hear that we have been taken off of the official Cozy website. This Web Site I believe is owned by Aircraft Spruce and they can put on or take off what ever they wish. I would like to conclude by saying that WICKS WILL CONTINUE TO PROVIDE QUALITY AIRCRAFT PARTS TO OUR CUSTOMERS WITH THE SAME HIGH QUALITY SERVICE THAT YOU EXPECT NO MATTER WHAT PLANE YOU ARE BUILDING OR FROM WHOM YOU BUY YOUR PLANS FROM.

 

Thank you for your support,

 

Scott M. Wick

Vice President

Wicks Aircraft Supply

Highland IL 62249

[Steve Davies]

So... It seems to me if Mr. Puffer were to give sole distributorship to A.S., he'd be selling himself short. While competition would tend to keep prices low, the opposite would tend to sell fewer plans/parts and prices would rise as a result. Not to mention, IMHO, that those affected by higher cost and lack of choice (we the builders) would be alienated and the plane suffers.

 

I'm not saying that Mr. Irwin is in the wrong, he's competing as well as Mr. Wick... I hope both suppliers will be able to continue their valuable service.

 

Did I ride the fence well enough?

[David Pierce]

The reduction of competition ultimately leads to higher prices as there is only "one" authorized source of materials. As this is monopolistic, I feel that it is short sighted and detrimental to all cozy builders. Since it is clear that there is a rebate program in place perhaps Wicks should consider a discount for Canard Zone members. This would serve two purposes...one to create more competition and secondly to provide a benefit to cozy builders.

It is possible that I am over reacting, but I do not like the idea that there is only ONE source of approved parts. Service and price are other factors that are important.

As I indicated before, I am glad that the forum was not sold as well as the rights.

[John Slade]

I do not like the idea that there is only ONE source of approved parts

 

The day control of who's an "approved" supplier and who isn't passed to one of the vendors the meaning of the word "approved" was completely devalued. "authorized and approved" no longer have meaning with respect to Cozy parts, except with respect to things you can ONLY buy in one place and can't make yourself.

 

The only material that kinda fits into that catagory is spar cap tape. Gear struts can be got from 2 suppliers. Canopies can be got from 2 suppliers. Hardware can be made from plans drawings.

 

Wicks is still there competing with ASS on the basic supplies, as are numerous other vendors.

 

I don't see the problem

[Steve Davies]

I think what happened is that I forgot how many vendors there are, and the fact that it is plans built. Maybe the other vendors out there should be invited to throw in their twonies worth also. Just to level the playing field as far as vendor opinion and this forum go.

[ekisbey]

There's no link that I see that lists what's included in the kit you're ordering, so you're going on their word that it's correct.

 

I said this in an earlier post, for those of you not following this thread. A little bird whipered in my ear, and I took another look at the AS&S site. I now see a breakdown of kits, parts, and prices that I didn't see before. Either I simply missed it and didn't see it before, or it was added very recently. I suspect the latter.

 

Either way, this is an encouraging sign, IMHO, that AS&S is truly making an effort here. Just a thought.

[Cozy2do]

It was for sure added recently - which I agree is a good sign that they are working on the Cozy section of their web site to make it more user friendly. The list still shows the same errors though. I should go through the rest of the chapters and compare them to the plans BOM and see if there are more problems.

[Jim Sower]

Originally posted by John Slade

Oh, by the way, Jim.

Do you think it might be possible to avoid mentioning human excrement (liquid or solid) in a couple of your future posts?

Yes, I suppose I could do that. But I'll have to admit that I'm pretty dumbfounded at the request.

 

Somebody's going to have to help me out here:

A) It's crude and lowbrow and gross to use common, everyday words ....

B) It's perfectly acceptable however, if you replace an internal letter with some special character ....

 

Is this an airplane building and aviation information exchange, or the "Ladies' Auxiliary" to something? What exactly are we pretending not to do or say by sticking a * in the middle of some words? Am I missing out on some secret magic way to deflect the Wrath of God? Or sister Mary Ruth? Jeeze! (or should I say J**ze?) I feel like I'm back in grammar school snickering and whispering in the corner of the school yard.

 

How is this not juvenile silliness and hypocritical bullp**p? Someone help me please ....

[No4]

"Is this an airplane building and aviation information exchange, or the "Ladies' Auxiliary" to something?"

 

Judging by the bitching in some of these threads recently, I would say it's much, much worse.

 

Foul language doesn't bother me, but if some more sensitive souls find vulgarity offense then it's only fair to cut it out. It's not neccesary really is it? There could be kiddies reading this.

 

 

"I can understand why people like Nat Puffer have said that Wicks Aircraft is just a hobby for the organ company.

 

Jerome and I continue to keep a friendly relationship with each other as we gave him the bike and trike business to continue with."

 

Ahhhhhh, you got to love business people eh? Life must be tough running an aircraft spruce business as a hobby.

 

Nice to know we keep them in Caviar and Champagne.

 

Are there any arrangements in place for when Nat goes one step further and no longer has anything to do with the Cozy? Who will be responsible for the newsletter and builder support then?

 

[John Slade]

This should be over in the computer ettiquette area, but I'll post it here for now. I'm hesitant to move stuff around too much after making Jon piss himself last night. (he's concerned that the current forum setup is a bit buggy and fragile).

 

>Someone help me please ....

Let me see if I can get this across, Jim...

You and I are good friends. We know each other well. If we go in a bar and have a lively conversation you'll tend to "puntuate" what you say with 4 letter words. You know me, and you know it won't offend me because I usually come right back with equally colorful language. Now lets move the scene to dinner at a five star restaurant with our wives. Out of respect for the ladies, or neigboring diners, we might tone it down a bit. Then, on the other hand, we might not. Now imagine that a third couple joins us. People we don't know. Rather than risk offending them, we'd probably cut the language way back out of politeness until we know them a little better. Remember the Officer's Mess?

 

The problem with internet communications is that you never know who you're talking to. That third couple is lurking all the time and might be offended. The occasional curse helps with emphasis and probably won't offend most people. However, using p.ss or sh.t in every fu*king message is just a bit over the top.

 

Oh - why the dots. To get around the censors, which we haven't switched on, but perhaps should.

 

Does this help?

[Joe Patterson]

John,

 

Nicely put....................however, I and my wife were just a bit offended by the "F" word even masked as it was with and "*".

 

But we have heard it before........seems there is no way around it. I prefer the "@!%#$&@*#$" Method myself.

 

I often have nephews or nieces online, though not yet in "Airplane Forums". I am sure by the time the reach Jr. High.there are no New Words to them.

 

And to Jim Sower............Who said:

 

:"I feel like I'm back in grammar school snickering and whispering in the corner of the school yard.

How is this not juvenile silliness and hypocritical bullp**p?"

Lovely as well, may I use these words in my web-page??? I would not attach your name to it, unless you insist on that as well.

[Jim Sower]

Originally posted by John Slade

...lets move the scene to dinner at a five star restaurant with our wives ... a third couple joins us ... probably cut the language way back out of politeness until we know them a little better ...

Agreed. I've no problem with that notion at all. Like, you either say it or you don't. What I'm laughing at so much is the all those silly dots and * and all. Now, you know how mightily amused I get at irony and hypocrisy. I think it's hilarious that some folks get so anal about a little emphasis if you spell it right but it seems to be OK and acceptable so long as you spell it wrong.

 

My friend, I believe that notion has all the intellectual alure, if I may use your scenario, of saying all of the exact same things we had been saying before we relocated to that 5* bistro with the ladies and that prissy third couple - but now we make it all socially acceptable by saying certain selected words in "pig-latin".

 

<... Remember the Officer's Mess? ...>

Don't get me started on what you hear in there ...

 

<...you never know who you're talking to. That third couple is lurking all the time and might be offended ...>

You know I mean no offense (usually). This stuff (see - ain't you proud of me?) is often useful for emphasis. And color, of course. My daddy always told me "... if you can't be good - be colorful ...". I can be patient with some folks who get anal (or should I say a**l) about every little thing, and enough is enough. You know that I will take the bit in my teeth from time to time and "overemphasize" a little. I hadn't noticed that I was getting excited. I'll endeavor to behave better (for a while).

 

PS Joe, let your conscience be your guide.

[Joe Patterson]

How much easier, just to day"edit" Scratch day...add SAYend of "edit" "Yes" oe No"........

[Steve Davies]

Awww, s**t! Now I can't go p**s up a rope, or even hit my @%&*!%$ thumb with a hammer.... Hard to do for this kid from Baltimore, but I'll try.

[steve]

Anybody any comments on the spruce suppliers

 

 

well i guess i'm 1 of the new be's to here and to as&c..but i can tell u the help i got from them was outstanding and unexpeced, at 44 I some times wonder y is this happening to me? but all i can say is so far rennie and her team (hope thats her name) showed this wanabe new be there r people out there that care....and this is gr8.

havent worked with wick ,nor do i know y i should..but more may be revealed:confused: #1269