Looking path that uses my CNC, SOLIDWORKS and Diesel

[TRUEMAN]

Hi All,

I have been bitten by the Canard bug.  Went to Oshkosh 2019.  Have refitted large sailboats so I am good with glass and long time-span engineering projects.

I am not a shoestring budget but I am as much interested in the scratch build as flying. I see that many endeavors never succeed so a 40K kit is out of the question for me.

I have a 5'x10'x 9" CNC machine. I am good at SOLIDWORKS (Thanks in part to EAA). I also love Diesel engines.  I want to design a project that checks these boxes.

So my questions at the moment:

It seems that most canard kits/ are molded over foam blocks (male). Would a 5'x10'x9" CNC envelope be sufficient to carve the male plugs of a Cozy IV or Long EZ?

Is there a SOLIDWORKS or other 3D CAD plan set on the market that would save me from the potential errors of converting 2D plans into 3d plans? 

I am excited for the Wisconsin Built. Deltahawk 2 stroke Diesel! Does anyone have an idea if this will be a relative  "bolt on" to a particular Long EZ variant or other Canard (Velosity kits and V-twin is out of my league but appear to be proven)?

How would one verify the use of a Daltahawk engine in say a Long EZ if they were not an engineer in the field? Would it add huge expense to verify the configuration with professionals? Are there documented examples known to this community?

I have been reading this forum for months, its got a much better vibe than almost forum on the internet. Great job pitching in and moderating!

Thank you,

David

 

[Kent Ashton]

Trying to think of a good analogy.  It is sort of like having plans for a dog house and saying "I want to put this dog house plan into CAD before I build it." 

The engine mount, engine, accessories and cowls might be good drawn up into CAD.  An instrument panel would be good in CAD.  But the rest is just building the dog house. 🙂    If you were going to build a new airplane with different lines, lofting, bulkhead positioning I'd say go for it but putting that stuff in CAD will just stretch out the build.   

Props would be good in CAD.  I can post some blade station X,Y coordinates for a two-blade prop that works very well with 180 HP.  You might like to try that.

[jdubner]

2 hours ago, TRUEMAN said:

I am excited for the Wisconsin Built. Deltahawk 2 stroke Diesel! Does anyone have an idea if this will be a relative  "bolt on" to a particular Long EZ variant or other Canard (Velosity kits and V-twin is out of my league but appear to be proven)?

David, you remind me of myself 25 years ago!  I too was excited about the DeltaHawk engine.  It "checked all the right boxes" (e.g. no ignitions, no carburetor, runs on jet fuel, etc.).  Now, 25 years later I see that DeltaHawk has a new web site, probably new investors, but the same promise.  "Pricing and availability will be announced soon." says the web site.  I think I first read that in 1999!

Meanwhile, I've been flying ahead of (and behind) various Lycomings for those 25 years.  Expensive, ancient technology, sometimes cantakerous but they work well in airplanes.  I see it all too often: a builder "ages out" before he ever realizes his dream if the scope is too large.

--

Joe

 

[macleodm3]

Hello David,

I've almost finished building my Cozy MKIV.... its a wonderful, huge, awful, life changing project.  Total time to build for me is around 3k hours, cutting foam is only around 20 hours total.  Its such a miniscule portion of the project.

A difficult part of the project is getting some hardware... thankfully the Cozy Girrrls have stepped up and are able to supply us with hardware.  It sounds to me like you have some nice machining capabilities, and you'll have an opportunity to build metal parts with your tools and expertise if you want to save money and build hardware yourself (and there is ALOT of hardware in any EZ/Cozy). 

If you install a non-Lycoming engine, you'll have lots of additional parts to build for your installation... so its good you have machining experience.  All Cozy's that fly much have Lycomings (there is 1 excellent Subaru Cozy that flies alot too).  

These airplanes aren't good for trying out new engines... they land fast and they land poor off field.

Hope you decide to build an airplane... consider an RV if you want to be flying in a couple years.

Andrew Anunson

 

 

[Countach74]

Cnc and Solidworks are a good idea but forget about the diesel. Check out the Raptor on YouTube with an Audi Diesel.

[Jon Matcho]

Welcome!

18 hours ago, TRUEMAN said:

Would a 5'x10'x9" CNC envelope be sufficient to carve the male plugs of a Cozy IV or Long EZ?

You could do all sorts of things with that, and you can always fix the foam blocks together later if anything was too big for one session. Still, as Kent pointed out it would be faster not to bother unless you wanted to achieve something different/unique. 

18 hours ago, TRUEMAN said:

Is there a SOLIDWORKS or other 3D CAD plan set on the market that would save me from the potential errors of converting 2D plans into 3d plans?

Not yet, but there’s some movement with the Open-EZ to achieve that for the Long-EZ and Cozy dimensions.

18 hours ago, TRUEMAN said:

Does anyone have an idea if this will be a relative  "bolt on" to a particular Long EZ variant or other Canard (Velosity kits and V-twin is out of my league but appear to be proven)?

Bill Allen is the pioneer with working to fit the Deltahawk to a Long-EZ. I recall seeing a recent comment on the Canard Aviators mailing list (I think) that he remarked of the pain and suffering he’s gong through with it and I got the impression he would never do it again. It’s a massive amount of work to get the kinks out of new engines, and the Deltahawk is similar effort to an auto conversion in my opinion (for what that’s worth).

Keep in mind that the completion rate is very low. Only a minority of those starting will actually finish. You need to be picky about how many projects you add to the already challenging project (although I’d be thrilled to have access to that CNC machine 😉 ).

18 hours ago, TRUEMAN said:

I have been reading this forum for months, its got a much better vibe than almost forum on the internet. Great job pitching in and moderating!

It’s about time you posted, welcome to the forum! 🙂 On behalf of those actually posting the interesting and informative stuff for you to read, thank you! 

[Marc Zeitlin]

10 hours ago, macleodm3 said:

there is 1 excellent Subaru Cozy that flies alot too...

To whose Subaru powered COZY are you referring? I know of three - Al Wick (165 HP version - hasn't flown in 7 years or more, never went cross country, maybe had a couple hundred hours on it [agreed trouble free, but hardly "flies a lot"]), Keith Spreuer (220 HP version - flew a LOT, but had MANY failures, and has swapped it out for a Lycoming) and Phillip Johnson (also a 220 HP version - unless something has changed recently, doesn't fly much and doesn't have a lot of time on it).

Non-Lycoming powered canard aircraft have been few and far between, with only a couple that could be considered successful. Perry Mick's Mazda could be considered successful, and Gary/Char Spencer's direct drive V8 could be considered successful, both within narrow definitions of the word "successful".

You want to tinker? Use an auto conversion. You want to fly? Use a Lycoming.

And Deltahawk has bee saying they're just about ready to fly since 1995. So there's that. You NEVER want to be an early adopter of an auto conversion engine - the E-AB world is littered with people that have been duped and lost a lot of time and $$$ chasing that chimera.

[Marc Zeitlin]

1 hour ago, Jon Matcho said:

Bill Allen is the pioneer with working to fit the Deltahawk to a Long-EZ.

Bill's LE has a Wilksch Diesel - NOT a Deltahawk. It's been years, and still not successfully operational.

http://www.longezediesel.com/

Note that the Wilksch webpage does not even indicate engines for sale, after 26 years of development:

http://www.wilksch.aero/aboutus

[TRUEMAN]

Thanks for the ideas guys.  This is great. It's sometimes hard to get the big picture from all the sources of info.

I will build first in CAD regardless, that's just how things are done in my world, I cant imagine it will take significant time compared to a 3K hour project.

I see the deltahawk problems and will scratch that off the list.

Does anyone know of an automotive gas, well documented build with proof of success? Hopefully some Rotax examples?

Thanks,

David

 

 

 

 

[Marc Zeitlin]

29 minutes ago, TRUEMAN said:

I will build first in CAD regardless, that's just how things are done in my world, I cant imagine it will take significant time compared to a 3K hour project

You know, you're not the first person in 30 years to think of putting a Long-EZ or COZY MKIV into 3D CAD - I was one of them, in 1995. But everyone who tries - who's not just in it for the fun of building a 3D model but thinks that they're going to obtain some advantage by having a 3D model - quickly comes to the realization that it's a total waste of time, and ADDS work to the build, rather than making it go faster. But hey - CAD away, and let us know if you come to a different conclusion from everyone else.

31 minutes ago, TRUEMAN said:

Does anyone know of an automotive gas, well documented build with proof of success? Hopefully some Rotax examples?

There have been one or two Rotax Long-EZs, but all but the largest turbo'd version (the 915iS at 141 HP) are a bit anemic for a Long-EZ, and totally inadequate for a COZY MKIV. And given that Rotax's cost as much as Lycomings, I don't know why you'd want one. If all you want is auto gas compatibility, use a Lycoming with 8.5:1 or lower compression cylinders - STC's are available (not that you need one, but it indicates that it's been tested and approved). Then find a sealant for the inside of the strake tanks (polysulfides are preferred) and use that to seal the tanks. Numerous folks use mogas in their COZYs and Long-EZs. If you can find mogas without ethanol, you don't need the fancy sealant.

Put an SDS EFII/EI system on a Lycoming and the BSFC is as good as any available gas engine, and it's almost FADEC.

[TRUEMAN]

Great to know the lycoming - mogas path exists and with all the options I can quit my search for against the grain solutions!

I have to clear out one of the garages to start the project which gives me plenty of time to get rolling with the planning. I am sure I will come to the same conclusion as everyone else.

I really appreciate the answers.  When you search the internet you get more lost and any path looks as good as any other.  And man there are a lot of dead diesel engine concepts out there! Zoche is my by far my favorite dead engine project BTW.