Velocity Bought and New Model?

[KhakiMan]

Just read an article on MSNBC about the Rocket Racing League which says they bought Velocity Aircraft. Not a big surprize, but wow!

 

MSNBC.com article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24100365/

 

Also, just checked the Velocity website, which the just relaunched (about time) and noticed they have a new model! The "Turbo", which is a 6 seat, Pratt & Whitney powered, Avanti-like plane. I'm guessing these are just well-done photoshop images, beacause I haven't heard a thing about this beauty.

 

Here's the link to the plane: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-models-turbo.html

[Jon Matcho]

Cool! The new Velocity web site was just launched an hour or so ago. Still no official word about the sale of the company on the site, but I can recognize some of the same techniques as those used on the Rocket Racing League's web site.

 

The Turbo pictures appear to come from X-Plane AFAICT.

[Edge 513]

GREAT to see some new stuff happening! I bet this is at least 450-500k in clams out the door, maybe more because of capability. Depends on it "kit" form. That Pratt is gonna add some dough to that. To bad it wasn't light enough for a Walter.

Marc, If you're reading this is this not dejavu!! from 6 months ago!!

Now this 6 seater...SHOULD have had the twin inboard stabilizer rudders- and it could command an additional 50k due to contributing appearance alone.

Definitely.

Somebody call Velocity! =]

 

I just went and read the specs on the future bird. Scratch my cost ideas above...

[FreedomAviation]

If the "turbo" comes out anything like it looks like on the site, that'll be a sweet looking bird that should sail.

 

I give it a thumbs up

 

Me from a personal standpoint, i'm glad to see stuff going and developing, I dig new stuff!

[Edge 513]

Wah-lah. I really am starting to dig the appearance of those inboard udders.

[Lynn Erickson]

GREAT to see some new stuff happening! I bet this is at least 450-500k in clams out the door, maybe more because of capability.

 

 

Thats a bit low, I think, the prat with a prop is 250 to 300k used, the kit will go for 200k plus the 30K for the gear, the avionics are a 100K and up without the 25k for the auto pilot. even the tires will be 2K each. I'll bid 1.5 mil and be getting a good deal. this is not going to be a one man build kit. it will take a crew and i'll bet some of them might want to get payed for their time. and then they made it big enough that it won't fit in a tee hanger. so with hanger fuel and maintenance, operating cost will be only $2500 an hour. just a bit higher than a cozy or velo at $250 an hour. Oh did I forget the pilot training costs. but a very cool design and a way better idea then straping a rocket on the velo airframe and calling that fast and exciting.

[Edge 513]

 

I just went and read the specs on the future bird. Scratch my cost ideas above...

Yea, Lynn I agree. But I was thonking about 900k. It wouldn't meet the market successfully at 1.5 with the Epic product coming out at 900- 1.2M I think.

[Eminence]

Unless RRL believes that their make-believe league 1) will ever form or 2) if they let Velocity go belly up they never will achieve #1.

 

Velocity sales have fallen to the pits. One has to wonder why having an "adequate supply of airframes" was in doubt. Assuming RRL was already paying for all the racer development costs, it seems strange that they felt they had to buy the company itself.

 

The only obvious answer is that Velocity had be ready to go out of business, and the only way RRL could protect its source of airframes was to buy the company. A look at Aircraft Registration databases. Here's the change in the number of Velocities registered per year since 2001:

 

 

Year Net Increase

---- --

2001 29

2002 18

2003 22

2004 11

2005 9

2006 10

2007 7

 

 

Note that this is the *net* increase in the number of aircraft registered as Velocities...and that in most cases, this reflected a kit that had probably been purchased three or more years earlier. (Note that the actual number of completed aircraft per year is generally higher...for instance, I show 12 Velocities with new airworthiness certificates in 2007).

 

 

Obviously, Velocity sales had peaked in the late '90s. Not too farfetched to think that the owners were considering shutting the line down.

[Edge 513]

I was going to say that the numbers might evidence the start of the economic downturn at its beginning, but as I recall GA has had some pretty good reported sales during the past 3 years.[course- not sure what planes filled those orders- Hawkers and Lears or Pipers and Diamonds.

Who the heck knows, as builders are a different breed than general GA folk.

Whats your point emin-em? Just have a thing against Velocity or RRL or what? ..Velocity is a nice bird. Not my cup-o-tea, but a nice bird.

[Eminence]

I was going to say that the numbers might evidence the start of the economic downturn at its beginning, but as I recall GA has had some pretty good reported sales during the past 3 years.[course- not sure what planes filled those orders- Hawkers and Lears or Pipers and Diamonds.

Who the heck knows, as builders are a different breed than general GA folk.

Whats your point emin-em? Just have a thing against Velocity or RRL or what? ..Velocity is a nice bird. Not my cup-o-tea, but a nice bird.

RVs have increased in registrations it's not a personal thing w/ Velocity, the facts are the facts. I doubt if I had an interest that I would be looking at dropping $500K into a TP Velocity until I see the company stabilize.

 

RRL, now that's just a flat joke.

[jprock]

I'm not sure the owners (the Swings) were thinking of shutting down the business, but I do know they were looking to sell for a while. Unlike the Cozy, the Velo is a very large commitment up front. In the late 90's and earlier this decade, Velocity could be bought in several sub-kits. It is much easier for people thinking about building to commit to a $5,000 sub-kit, than to a $50,000 full kit. I think getting away from the sub-kit idea was a bad decision. The down side to the Cozy is that there are alot more people that start, but never complete the project. In the kit market, RV's have done a better job flusing out the kit to make it easier to build. CNC'ing the parts so they match up perfectly. And I think most mechanically inclined people just think of popping rivets as easier than mixing resin...until they try both.

 

I only hope the Velocity management will not move away from the kit manufacturing all together. My hope is that everything goes as planned, the money pumped into the kit manufacturing from the Rocket Racing League will help flush out the kit building process, and the exposure of the RRL will re-energize Velo sales. We can only hope that RRL will have 1/10 of 1% of the financial upside that NASCAR has.

 

Who would have guessed NASCAR would be a $10 Billion per year marketing machine. (I have to admit, I don't GET

the Nascar thang at ALL!!)

[CBarber]

Actually, I don't think Velo's ever came as seveal sub kits. Instead, it did come as two sub kits, the fusalage as on and the wings/canard as the other. As a matter of fact I believe I was delivered the last "split kit" option in 2002. I had my fusalage delivered on Sunday June 9, 2002 and the official announcment of the end of the split kit option as well as the SUV was on Monday, June 10. Mine was originally an SUV which has since been converted to an SE (the only real difference is the co-pilot gull wing doors...as well as the cut down keel and yokes. Now the yoke is a $1200 option.

 

As to the sale, I have no idea if RRL is a good thing or not. I do not that Dwayne Swing has been wanting to sell for several years. It is my understanding upon talking to various factory folks over the entire time I have had my project is that he just wants to retire. I believe he is pushing 70 (if he has not already reached it, even though he was very vital last time I saw hinm in May of 06 at the Dallas Velocity Symposium. My regrets to you Dwayne if'n you are only in your 50's:( )

 

I do know that Velocity, Inc took great pride in not carrying any debt on the company. When they got slammed by huricanes a few years back they really did not want to go into debt to replace the damaged Service Center. The desire not to go into debt seemed to be a controling force in the company dogma.

 

I hope that the purchase is a good thing, but I am not really holding my breath either way. I am glad I have my kit moving towards first flight...or so I hope. That being said, Velo, Inc has always been a first class company to work with. They were always patient and willing to hold my hand when I needed it held. I have not had to in quite a while partly due to them being there when needed in the beginning.

 

I do think the comparison between the RV and the Velo is difficult to make as the build process and mission (up until the introduction of the RV-10 were very different). When I purchased my kit, it was 25k for a fast 4 person plane and RV did not offer a four place option. Now, the RV-10 is likely out of my price range (hell, my kit was out of my price range....but if I waited 'till i had the money, I would never do dang near anything....also, I have not kids or wife so I can afford some toys ). I do think that composite construction seems very forign to many and even if some may want to use it, aluminum seems safer and more known.

 

FWIW.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[Cozy1200]

Chris,

 

I took an informal vote.

 

We think you should dump that old technology engine and put in a rocket!!!!

[CBarber]

Done. Y'all come up with the $$$'s for the rocket and I will provide the airframe . Course, a few extra $$$ will have to be included to make up for lack of range. Actually, I am already using a modern engine....the ROTARY!!!!

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[DemonFrog]

I believe the kitbuilding world will become a whole lot more interesting if velocity comes out with that twin i hear rumored about on their site (not sure when). A twin velo, now that's a sweet idea. Might re energize sales?

[bferrell]

The twin was hot-n-heavy for awhile, but it's been on the back-burner for some time, and I would be surprised to see it in the next three years. The "hot-rod" is the current development machine, and the RRL ships. And then there's the Turbo, if they're serious about it....

 

Airventure 2006 Twin prototype

http://wiki.velocityxl.com/index.php?title=Velocity_Models#Twin

 

Brett

[FreedomAviation]

I believe the kitbuilding world will become a whole lot more interesting if velocity comes out with that twin i hear rumored about on their site (not sure when). A twin velo, now that's a sweet idea. Might re energize sales?

The twin or the turbo would be a completely new page and mindset. I'd love to see them out there, but to tool up to do the aircraft, and testing, will require some substantial time and funds, and with the way the market has taken a downturn (with fuel prices), and every aircraft has a for sale sign on it, I'm not sure we'd see either.

 

I still vote for the turbo though. Lets see some sketches, instead of some fancy CAD modelling.

[Edge 513]

Its wonderful that they 'fixed the nose and windshield' continuum on the Velo-twin model. The side photo on the wiki-twin shows the new windshield intersection and nose nicely.

[adsaviation]

I guess you guys do not know about two new Velocities being build right now with 400HP engines, glass panel (most likely Garmin G900 or the Aerosonic Pegasus System), BRS parachute, Side Yokes and AC?

 

I am kind of involved into those projects and I can tell this, this company is far away from being a dead or whatever company. Scott Baker took over the helm after it was sold and he is doing a terrific job. Scott Swing is still very much involved and is working also on those projects.

 

The specs we are thinking to achieve is over 275 TAS at level 250 perhaps faster....or perhaps not as we are aslo carrying the AC and Parachute, but it will be awesome !!!!

 

Anyway, keep an eye on the company, it is really doing great, and yes they ALL are wonderful people to work with, very optimistic very educated very devoted. I wish actually that the suppliers would be like them, than the turn around would be much faster.

 

Oh and I am not working for velocity, I am an European, CEO of a Internet Development Company, I am just helping with ideas.

 

Currently flying a Cirrus SR22 (900 hours), but I hope soon the Velocity.

 

ps I love this board, as it is NOT only Velocity but Canards Pilots sharing the same dream. I flew the Velocity a couple of times and yes in my opinion it flies better than the Cirrus.

[DemonFrog]

over 250kts don't you need a high performance rating, not to mention you can't go that fast through most airspace? (unless IFR, which means another liscense) give me decent speed and good fuel economy over 275kts anyday.

[adsaviation]

No to have a high performance sign off (only) is already needed in a plane like the Cirrus SR22 (and mine goes about 175).

And about not going too fast in certain airspaces, well class b/c (and I think D have to look this up) let you go 200knots but otherwise you can scream ~

 

An IFR License is something I would recommend anybody anyway. It safes your butt many times, less stress and more options.

[TMann]

High performance is in excess of 200 HP. Complex has to have flaps, constant speed prop and retracts.

 

There's nothing in there about speed.

(btw the speed limit is 250k below .....14,000 I believe

[Marc Zeitlin]

No to have a high performance sign off (only) is already needed in a plane like the Cirrus SR22 (and mine goes about 175).

And about not going too fast in certain airspaces, well class b/c (and I think D have to look this up) let you go 200knots but otherwise you can scream ~

Ummm, if you guys are pilots in the USA, you should be familiar with:

 

1) FAR 91.117, which governs INDICATED Airspeeds depending upon airspace and altitude.

 

2) FAR 61.31, which defines both complex and high-performance aircraft

 

neither of which are dependent upon the other.

 

An IFR License is something I would recommend anybody anyway. It safes your butt many times, less stress and more options.

While arguable, I'd recommend becoming familiar with the VFR regulations prior to advancing to IFR.

[adsaviation]

Ah....what a wonderful feeling this will be even to consider top speeds in the lower altitudes. I actually forgot them all as I never came really close to those with my Cirrus. Now that I am going into the Velocity Turbo I have to....fantastic !!!!

 

250 under level 140 is not bad (I actually think that it will just tip this at that altitude, the top speed will be in the higher levels, which I probably will test once to see how it is and then stay under level 180 anyway (too hostile without pressurization I think, to many things can go wrong than)

 

Sure we can wear mask etc, but just imagine you are turning your body and sit on the tube.....and not even knowing that you are slowly getting stupid without the extra needed oxygen (just one of my 'what if' scenarios LOL)

 

I actually wish they had a cannula or nose piece that would allow safe flights in the higher altitudes.....but so far I did not seen anything that is safe and comfortable.

[argoldman]

Ah....what a wonderful feeling this will be even to consider top speeds in the lower altitudes. I actually forgot them all as I never came really close to those with my Cirrus. Now that I am going into the Velocity Turbo I have to....fantastic !!!!

 

250 under level 140 is not bad (I actually think that it will just tip this at that altitude, the top speed will be in the higher levels, which I probably will test once to see how it is and then stay under level 180 anyway (too hostile without pressurization I think, to many things can go wrong than)

 

Sure we can wear mask etc, but just imagine you are turning your body and sit on the tube.....and not even knowing that you are slowly getting stupid without the extra needed oxygen (just one of my 'what if' scenarios LOL)

 

I actually wish they had a cannula or nose piece that would allow safe flights in the higher altitudes.....but so far I did not seen anything that is safe and comfortable.

AD,

Use a pulse oxymeter (and don't sit on the tube)

 

The real prob with Oxy is that it is very dry and you will dry your nasal passages:mad: