Fuselage modification

[zies8]

I have a question for you if you would be kind enough to take time to give me your opinion.

I am looking at a Long Ez project that is already started. The project has the fuselage completed with the air grake installed the nose gear bowl installed and the landing light installed. I had never sat in a long ez before I sat in this one. I have shoulders that are just too wide. My arms are pinned to my torso while sitting in the incomplete fuselage.

My question is this; In your opinion would widening the fuselage on this project plane be worthy of merrit or even possible. I am thinking that it could be cut down the middle and made wider. Would this be possible using the methods in the plans for repair and do you think that the added weight and structural questions caused by this repair would make starting over more desireable?

The fuselage that this fellow put together looks very nice. He wants $2250.00 for his project and all of the plans books videos and many ken brock parts. It looks like a sweet deal unless making this conversion to an existing fuselage would be a bad Idea.

I would greatly appreciate your opinion.

 

Mike in Utah

[cdavis]

IMHO don't even think about it. The EZ will be a huge challenge to finish even if you stick to the plans and are very conservative.

 

Either the EZ is right for you or it isn't. If it isn't, don't force the issue, but buy a Cozy project, RV, or other plane that more fits your physiology.

[rviglierchio]

Don't forget your elbows will be in the strakes making it a lot more roomy in the middle area. But if your shoulders don't fit between the longerons that will get worse with the rods for the canopy along side them on the left....

[zies8]

The fuselage that I sat in did'nt have the strake holes cut out. I guess if they were cut out you elbows would fit in them offering more space for the rest of the body.

Are there any 6'-2" people out there that have wide shoulders who fit into the Long Ez?

[Drew Swenson]

If you are having trouble with your shoulders (because they are pressing on the upper longerons) on a standard longez, then the strake holes really don't matter-----you don't fit. The strakes DO really make it pretty roomy---but that is elbow room---not shoulder room. A standard Cozy will be worse for your shoulders. However, people have made modifications to the Cozy canopy and longerons to make it a little roomier.

[Waiter]

The more the tub being complete, the more work it would be. i.e.

 

Without seeing photos, I would assume (ASS-U-ME) that its a basic tub with F22 bulkhead, instrument panel, front seat bulkhead, rear seat bulkhead, and maybe firewall.

 

Its almost awash - start from scratch versus widen existing fuselage. The bulkheads are structural. I would be concerned about "splices" in them. so I would remake these. (F22 and doubler, F28 and instrument panel, Front set, rear seat, ) The firewall and instrument panels them selves could be spliced, but they are fairly easy to make, so I would remake them.

 

The fuselage itself could be spliced, use the same type of foam, and follow the plans layup schedule.

 

 

I would do something like this; I would make it 2 or 3 inches wider at F22, 4 inches wider at the front seat bulkhead, and 3 inches wider at the firewall. This would widen both the front and rear seats by 4 and 3 inches respectively.

 

NOTE: when you widen the fuselage (existing or new) you will need to be very careful about doing the math and redesign of several key components. here is just a couple off the top of my head;;

 

CANARD:

1) Canard attach points on F22 bulkhead, and their mating contact point on the shear web inside the can.

2) The width of the elevator skins need to be shortened to correct for the widened fuselage.

3) The elevator tubes lengths are OK, if you are not changing the canard.

4)The location of the trim and control (counterweight) bellcranks on the canard elevator tubes needs to be moved outboard so they line up properly with the new widened fuselage.

 

CENTERSPAR:

Assume the fuselage is 3 inches wider at the centerspar location.

1)The fuselage attach hardpoints in the centerspar need to be moved outboard from their existing location (7.5 inches CL) to line up with the new locations of the fuselage longerons. The new hardpoint location would be at 9 inches CL instead of 7.5.

2) I would add 3 inches (our 3 inch wider example) to the overall size of the centerspar. Add the 3 inches in the middle. This would effectively move the wings out 1 1/2 inch on each side. This would allow standard strakes to be used.

 

MAIN GEAR:

1) The attach points on the gear bow need to be moved outboard so they line up with the new location of LGMA assembly on the fuselage. Follow the plans as these attach points are mounted while the gear is temporally held in place against the fuselage.

 

STRAKES AND WINGS:

If the centerspar is widened to match the fuselage width. there shouldn't be any impact on wings or strakes.

 

FIREWALL:

1) New firewall. the fuselage is wider and the engine extrusion (EM-12) penetration points will be farther outboard. (You did put in larger EM-12 to support a larger engine??)

2) New engine mount, because the fuselage attach points are now farther outboard.

3) The Cowling will be different from a standard cowl. so it will need to be custom made.

4) If the aileron control torque tube penetration is placed in reference to the right longerons (it should be). The control rod length for the right wing would be the same, but the left tube will be approximately 3 inches longer than plans.

5) Firewall real estate is at a premium, so you gained about 3 inches wider firewall. this is a plus.

 

SPEED BRAKE:

Fuselage is approx 4 inches wider in this area. I would leave the speed brake board the same size.

1) If you used the plans actuator, you will either need to place the actuator pus rod 2 inches off center, or if you build the system yourself, make the torque tube 2 inches longer so the push rod is nor back in the center of the floor. OR

2) Install an electric speed brake.

 

ENGINE COOLING

The standard NACA scoop will work, or if you do your own, make it a little wider to match the fuselage.

 

As you can see, it is possible, but you will need to plan ahead. if you follow the plans without thinking about it, you'll wind up with components that don't match.

 

Personally, I wouldn't retrofit, I would do it from scratch.

 

Waiter

[bhassel]

Just thinking out load here (is that JTOLH?)

 

You might also consider making only the points wider that you really need. Perhpas the seatback front and maybe a little on the IP. Leave the width the same at the canard and landing gear. This might eliminate the need for a lot of extra changes that aren't necessarily needed.

 

Also another consideration mentioned to me by the Chrissie (Cozy Girrrls) was just to make the top of the seat backs wider so the longerons aren't digging into your shoulders.

 

I'm building a Cozy and following the first idea by making the front seatback wider by 3 inches and the IP wider by an inch. I'm not yet sure what I'll do in the back. Once warmer temps come back to Santa Fe I'll have to figure that out...

 

Bob

[zies8]

Thank you Bob. I think that you are probably right about leaving as many portions alone to eliminate the need to redesign everything.

[ColdLake-Tim]

Some guy's out there built/building what you need (late Sam Kriedel)....This is a Limoez, wider/longer with more power...Most use 0-360, but imagine a 320 would work.

 

Google N3R......Tim Crawfords NOAA EZ kinda Limoez which had many mods. Far as I know I'm only one of three guy's that have Tim's old Drawing/papers of his mods/build. these were professionally copied by a suriving friend. But not for a beginner.....As mentioned before you can widen the fuse to fit taking in previously mentioned/written/posted concerns.

 

The Fuselage is a simple box......Don't over do it, just try to keep the ends close to the original numbers with prementioned comments in mind and ask questions here......It's all just in the 'curve' of things

 

ColdLake-Tim

[jpolenek]

Does a wider fuselage require wider (custom) main gear legs, or can the standard gear hoop be used, given that the attach points would still be located at the same Butt Line location and the gear legs would come out of the [wider] fuselage at a slightly different point?

 

Joe Polenek

[Jon Matcho]

The widened AeroCanard uses the same gear bow and mounting points as the Cozy Mark IV.

[Limo EZ]

When I started looking at different airframes I determined that the Long EZ satisfied my goals with the exception of width. The Limo EZ that Sam Kriedel came up with fixed that. When I look back at the project that i have completed so far, If I could find a canard and a set of wings and spar I could then build a custom fuselage which is less critical than flying surfaces and ez to build ( that is why it is first in the plans so you get fiberglass skills honed). Determine the width you need at the shoulder and I bet it is not much more that 24". Curve the fuselage to get elbow room. Don't forget using the x axis by making it deeper and placing the seat back angle more vertical. You will also gain more legroom. Also you gain more prop clearance. Just some thoughts

 

Joe

[Kent Ashton]

what are your dimensions, Mike?

 

All the usual canard airplane (I haven't experienced the Limo EZ) are kind of tight. I build a Cozy IV, used to own a Cozy III and building a Long-EZ now. They are snug but comfortable for long trips. Don't expect a lot of elbow room or expect to be able to turn around and talk to your passenger--you just get yourself settled in with your maps, GPS, sandwich and softdrink and sit there for 3-4 hours which I find pretty comfortable.

 

Maybe you just have to get used to the idea.

[velocity dreamer]

Waiter

 

question about widening as you stated. On the canard without redoing to much math could you just add a inch or two to the center of the canard moving everything out like what you mentioned with the wing spar. Or would there me structure problems with this.

 

I want to just make mine an inch or two wider. just add it to the center of all the bulk heads, center section spar, and maybe the canard.

keep the same shape but just be an inch or two wider front to back.

 

lynn

[Waiter]

Should work;

 

Keep in mind the following:

 

Your Cowling will not be standard, you will need to make your own.

 

If you widen the longerons at the firewall, you engine mount will not be standard, you'll need to make your own.

 

watch the positioning of the mount tabs when you make the canard, and drill F22.

 

Waiter

[velocity dreamer]

I was planning to use a different type engine anyway so making a motor mount and cowl is already in the plans.

[Neverquit]

I was reading an old Sport Pilot magazine (circa late 80's) and was surprised how many alternate powerplants were being shown. There were lots of car engine conversion companies, diesels, etc. Seems like the buzz now is vaporware and electronic gadgets?