tonyslongez

Dale R Let me find another source I'll go right to Autocads website they have a viewer you can get from them for free as well. besides if they want an address give them one. The one I like to use is 3415 Rhinoshit wy. las Vegas Nv 89123 LOL Dave start with the 2D I have on Ez.org I'm doing the front seat and rear seat bulkhead first as a test run. I allready have the gear attach bulkhead detail done in 3D. it's shadded not rendered. Footnotes are a perfect idea lets role with that.

Dave you are awsome. O.k. So I've been thinking (here comes the smoke) I'm finishing up some more of these drawings/templates. There are alot of little things that are on these templates in the corners B-B , C-C and so on. alot of which had the drawing been a little clearer, you wouldn't have needed them. Here is the RUB. This stuff was printed for the guy who didn't even know what a rudder is. See, I'm drawing these the way I understand things now, as a "builder", maybe that is where the confusion is. I'm going to finish these in the eyes of the builder.

Remember though, this is a hand built airplane. I don't recall Burt mentioning anything about routers to cut out bulkheads. The point is, if you have the proper dimensions you won't need a template. there are thousands of things in the world that are built very well and not once was a full scale template used. lets move on! I'm telling you, the only fullsize template that you need as I see it, is the firewall. If I'm wrong I'll draw another fullsize template of some other bulkhead but I can't see where you would need it. If you can measure with a ruler you can cut out every one of these bulkheads just as accurate as you could if you had a full size template can we all agree on this???

Everybody! if you don't have CAD try this, it's free http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/Bentley+View/Overview.htm?skid=1%2D463SQ9&gclid=CNWZqt6dtYICFRMbSAodL3-RCw Tony

I don't know why everyone is so hellbent on printing the templates to "full scale" what difference does it make if they are even in scale? As long as you have the proper dimensions of each longeron or bulkhead. look at what I have drawn allready you can make those bulkheads without even printing them out the only thing missing is the lower radius dimension which isn't critical all other dimensions are, and supplied, and I give the modified template next to it which is rounded more at the bottom so make your fuse bottom as round as you like or your leg cut outs. Plus all other critical templates come aftermarket, Roncz for the canard, and Aerocanard for the wings and wing jigs. Just use the drawing to clarify the written words in the plans set nothing more. I'm not trying to copy Burt or preserve his work that's his problem. He's abandon the canard community as I see it. he's layed the ground work Great! now we have a chance to capatalize. The only real critical template is the Firewall everything else has dimensions. This is what Burt should have done to begin with. Obviously! the reason he didn't was to make people buy the templates well that didn't work. I'll put the dimension in like I have allready and who cares how it is printed. I'm growing tired now. Jon decide on something and lets get it done or I'll decide and do it the way I want to. (I mean no disrespect ) with or without dimensions? 2D or 3D? I just don't want to waste my time. Do me a favore go get CadLt or something equall to that at Frys or Circuit city you'll be glad you did. Tony

jon I just posted before you. the Cad program is Autocad 2000 did you get the drawings I e-mailed you? Did you get to view the 3D of my Retracts for the Long Ez? Tony

I'll get started. If you guys see any mistakes in the drawings let me know sometimes my eyes don't work so well at 3:00am that includes the ones I have allready drawn, I can change them with a key stroke. i'll start with something simple 3D drawing like the front seat bulkhead and the rear seat bulkhead i'll extrude them in isometric view and have then gouraud shaded in the different colors of foam. I think you'll like it. Tony

Well I have to say up front I'm not that familiar with the capabilities of Adobe PDF's. The DXF files are what I printed at Kinkos and they worked perfectly I can't imagine you would need anything else as far as elongating do to heat issues with some of these copiers or printers I'll bet it's neglible. I mean the airplane is built by hand you will unitentially elongate parts in all directions as you build it. I think most of that is a scare tactic I copied my originals layed them on top of each other and absolutely could not see any difference in the two. Here is what I propose to the group. I'll do the drawings in autocad you guys figure out the format problem. by the way the kinkos here in vegas has a large drum scanner/printer. D & E sized paper. Do we want to see any of the originals in 3D yes or no? Tony

(Jon wrote) I suspect that creating printable template files for ALL templates may not work. Can these template files be PDFs, or must they be DWGs? Tony, I believe you mentioned (here or somewhere else) that PDFs will not guarantee accurate dimensions on different printers. I'm surprised by this and wonder whether PDFs can be used with some care. Jon first let me start with the PDF issue as I understand it. A very good E.E. friend of mine told me about the PDF problem. I personally haven't tried to print the templates in a PDF format but I take his word for it. He uses Autocad every day and assured me that the DWG file was the most accurate scale. The PDF's were off as much as 20%. That's why I was dimming everything I could. So no matter what the print size you still have the actual dimensions of the bulkheads. Lets face it, you can build a house that way. Why not an airplane? B.T.W. I did convert all my drawings to PDF as well. 1.are ensuring the preservation of the Long-EZ design/plans as-is 2.are considering modifications and improvements for a new design I understand wanting to preserve the Long Ez design/plans as-is but does it have to include the media as well? I'm not sure how that fits into a " new design" if we just put the templates on C.D. if we use the Terf C.D's and our templates that where drawn to scale and put on a C.D. are we not preserving the LongEz plans in a better format than paper? Plus I can draw some of this stuf in 3D which is alot easier to follow than some of these templates we have now. I guess what I'm looking at is, if Terf has converted the plans set to a digital format why not the templates? Or did I read the post wrong? oh god! the preasure Tony

Jon I'm drawing the landing gear detail now. Well! let me refrase that. I'm drawing the rear bulkhead assembly and the landing gear hardpoint mounts and its all in 3d, won't be much help. I have the gear template. Some of the 3d drawing I can paste out of Isometric view. So I do have a bit of a headstart. You know the other thing that bothered me about these templates was the lack of dimensions alot of this stuff can be built without a template if the dims had been provided but I guess that was the point. I dimed the templates I drew so they can be built really without printing up a giant piece of paper that would be the ideal way to go to make the whole thing paperless. put the whole darn thing on cd just use the drawing to clarify, not to actually build on. What do you think???? Tony

Jon I understand and I'm with you 150%. I have no problems with anything you want from me. Where do you want me to send the drawings? I don't know if Avery has even posted the firewall I gave him he hasn't made any mention that it is available. I know he said he was running into web space issues so that may be a reason why. Tony

Mr Barton Yes you did post that link, sorry I didn't scroll up that high on my last post. the vectorex company looks like they could easily handle the job. what needs to happen now is getting all the templates to them. They can e-mail one of us a quote on the cost, if we like the price we have them do it if not we find someone else.simple .The only thing they may have a problem with is the copyright on those templates. That is why I think having the mods put right in initially will create a whole new set of drawings and the possible infringment issue will not exist. We don't want to call it a Long Ez, so the plans with the modifications would still "preserve the availability of the Long Ez design", As jon has put it in his list of demands . My best friend is a Lawyer I'll ask him about some of the legalities involved if it isn't to bad there won't be much to worry about as far as infringment. especially if we make the mods changes. and initially, maybe only one or two. Then, we can go back and do other changes in the plans. What do you think? Also Vectorex maybe able to use my drawings to start with then make small changes to them if needed. this will give them a head start and may cut some of the cost. Tony

Jon I think I sent them both in the stock Long Ez firewall and the modified. I think though it will take just as much effort to make an original set of plans as would to just make a set with the mods allready in place. But what ever you guys think I'll help anyway i can . As fas as getting them into CAD? no I don't know of any company that can do that of course I never had to look I draw my own stuff but I think someone posted a link to a company that does that sorta thing sorry for the spelling and punctuation I'm at work and in a hurry. Tony

Jon Might as well do the mod drawings. My thoughts here are, most builders are incorporating mods into the Long Ez from the begining of building or where ever than can get them in depending on the chapter(which there are nooo plans or drawings for). So, why not make a plans set with the mods and then use the Terf Cd to compare the two. Let the builder decide if that particular mod is what they want. If not, then they simply build to plans. I believe getting the originals copied into Cad is a good start. What I would like to see is, what I was doing, having both template drawings to compare to, Stock and modified. I'll do what I can to help. Count me in . I just thought of something else there has to be a way to make sure if the builder omits any one particular mod then the plans redirect the builder to another area of that section. So later on down the road everything works out. that is to say if one mod is depended on another. A+B=C if not B then A+C+D=E some of these mods may depend on each other. Or if you omit one mod you may have no choice but to add another. If it works out that way. My $.002 Just so everyone knows I completed the Firewall drawing for the Long Ez which I sent to Avery at Ez.org but I don't know if he has added it to the file yet. Tony

Argoldman thaks for the reply, very informative. the bladder thing was an idea that I was thinking outloud about. So back to the grind of the original wing strakes. I'll folllow the plans on the assembly . I love your idea of the syphon and return pump seems like a good way to go I'll definately be using that one. Thanks Tony

Well its not just a cleanliness issue, it's also an assembly issue, and a leak issue, and so far as I can tell we only have one example of aircraft (182) that had known bladder problems. There are alot of aircraft that have bladders that have never had a problem. As far as the keeping the tanks full during storage. I understood that to be a condensation issue not a deterioration one. Tony

"The weight concern you mentioned was my first concern as well. I'm also not sure I'd care to button up my strakes with a rubber balloon in there." Jon, the company that I looked at had a formed rubber tank they said they could make any shape and size. Ya know certified aircraft have been doing the rubber balloon thing for years with pretty good success. I'm wondering if I would still need to use the baffles or could I get away with making the strake out of carbon fiber. maybe a "Plug in " type tank like the Rv guys use supported on both sides with a bulkhead and secured to those bulkheads. Maybe?

Has anyone looked into using custom rubber made fuel cells? When I was at Oshkosh this year I talked to a gentleman that made custom rubber fuel cells. The only reason to consider bladders is because they seem to be more sterile than just a fiberglass tank. I seem to recall a few forced landings do to clogged fuel filters from the strake tanks despite the builders best efforts to keep the tank clean prior to closing. A fuel bladder seems like it would be the way to go. Certainly wouldn't have to worry about leaks when closing the strake. weight may be a problem though. Try not to beat me up I'm just thinking out loud here. any thoghts ? Tony

Check out my site go to www.myairplane.com click on construction log then click on tonyslongez I have my own retract design coming back from the machine shop that will surely stand everyone on ear here is a cad drawing Tony

Thanks Bart I have a new design for the retracts they are slightly different than the 210 gear I wanted to use initially in the build. I'm finishing up the structural analysis for the final design of the retracts. Once that is complete, I'll machine the gear trunions, side castings, make the bulkheads and install them on the airplane. Flip the airplane over and do the canopy and strakes it's going to be awesome Glad you liked the site. Tony

Sbarton I'm not sure I totaly agree with Marc. The bulkheads that you need a template for is the firewall, f-22, f-28 and NG-30 and instrument panel which, I have sent as part of the bulkheads you can download from the Ez.org site as Cad drawings. I'm not sure if the firewall is posted yet sometimes it takes Avery a few days to get to it. You can build your fuselage sides which is a big step. You will have to stop at the gear attach points. you will need a template for that "Kinda" that particular one is more of a detail drawing of the written word, if you can follow what the plans say in that particular section you could probably do with out it but it does help to have it. I would if you have the means purchase a set of Aero Canard foam wings, that will take care of those templates. If your going to use the Roncz canard (Highly recomend) those templates are supplied when you buy the Roncz plans from RAF those templates are taken care of. I have supplied cad drawings for all bulkheads on the Ez.org site those are taken care of. The only ones you will need to get will be the jigging templates for when you glass your wings. You can also buy the winglets precut from Aero Canard scratch those off the list. So in the end yes, you will still need a complete set of templates no doubt, but there is an awful lot of work to do before you need them. Wing strake bulkheads, Landing gear attach tabs, Spar. the list goes on and on. BTW, I still don't have my firewall installed and I'm on the gear. Using a rotary engine. Good luck. Tony

Hans Sorry No. My intention for these drawings was just to show initially how the longer nose is made. I wanted a longer nose for my Long Ez but there was no real documentation on what the bulkheads looked like. I drew the modification I had made to my airplane so other builders could get an idea of what to do. I figured why stop there? so I drew the other bulkheads as well. The new firewall drawing is complete I just have to send it off to Avery over at Ez.org. Tony

So far with the 210 gear you see on the web page I'm only 28lbs heavier and that is with the steel rv 4 landing gear. My gear boxes are a little heavier than the 210. The aluminum legs from grove will be quite a bit lighter than the stock rv4 gear legs so I'm guessing (hoping) to be around 20-15 lbs heavier than stock gear. I need some weight back there anyway because I stretched my fuselage 6"in from the front seat bulkhead to the back seat bulkhead. Tony

Dave don't wait to long to start 5yrs is nothing to laugh at from what I have read about most builders, 5yrs usually turns into 7 or 8. I can move that diffuser up to the prop more here is the Pic. I'll know better when I can draw to scale right now obviously these are very preliminary just to get the idea on paper. I hope I can get this look for my diffuser exhaust. I think the Lycoming has 53 moving parts Rotary, 3! guaranteed to never drop a valve Love it! thirsty little sucker though but, Like you, I have time on my side. When I'm ready to install this thing the redrives will be perfect, not that they are not good now. the industry is still making improvements on them, all the electrical and fuel delivery will be perfect, and hopefully everyone can agree on the best way to cool it. I'll be putting my engine in at the very last minute. Tony

Dave You got it,the scoop is mostly just fairing work. yes I will area rule that scoop as soon as I have nailed down a radiator. I plan on using an exhaust diffuser. Most guys use a straight header into the diffuser with no muffler and it's god awful loud . I watched a velocity with a diffuser on it leave oshkosh this year, you could hear him well after he was out of sight, WOW that thing was loud. I don't want that. This is my idea for a shut up diffuser. You can do the over the shoulder thing. I think I have some pics from Oshkosh on my web page with those in it really neat looks cool I think they work pretty well. Are you thinking of an air cooled type motor? Tony