tonyslongez

Maybe it hasn't been implemented because no one has taken the time to figure it out, just assuming that it was too complex. You know that does happen. It's called initiative, or lack of. There are alot of builders who don't want to take on the necessary mods they would like to have because either they: 1) think it's going to be too hard 2) think it's going to take too long Those are just two giant hurdles that most builders have trouble getting over. .No problem go to the third page of this thread you'll see two attachments of rendered drawings. There's one There you go again, Marc, thinking for everyone else. It's non trivial to who, you? There's no demand? You stated that "Infinity had been working on a steerable nose gear for ten years and that it has gone nowhere". Now I ask you, who works on a steerable nose gear for ten years if there's no demand:confused: Do you know what kind of money J.D. must be thinking he is going to make to have that kind of fire in his belly to work on something for ten years of his life? O.k. sure we have longer TO distances because we are canards- no dispute.Part of that traditional TO distance has always been with a castering nose wheel which you are breaking as your rolling down the runway. At some point that is going to affect your TO distance. The million dollar question is how much shorter will the roll be without braking at all during the roll out? .I'm not sure what your definition of complexity and weight is? So, you'd rather greatly increase the complexity, weight and cost of the nose gear, instead of replacing $50 brake pads at the conditional inspection? I can buy a LOT of brake pads for the extra cost of the heavy, strengthened nose gear you're going to need to steer. Still not sure what your definition of complexity and weight and now cost are:confused: Maybe you have forgotten that you're building a composite airplane. There are alot of strong composite materials on the market that would benefit the use of this nose gear. Airwrenches' post, at least to me, didn't seem to warrant you coming out with your guns blazing. If he thinks it's a problem, then, to him it is. If you were really supportive initially, as you claim you are your post would've read, "Hey Airwrench, I have had pretty good success with my castering nose gear but it would be interesting to see how a steerable nose gear might work on a canard". No, you didn't say anything about a steerable nose gear. That's a good point MARC, and you probably never will. You made mods to your airplane that I'm sure someone asked you, "WHY do you want to do that?" Because you wanted to, that's why. Your own reasons were all you needed. Now someone else wants to do a modification for there own reasons and you're quick to shoot them down. Yeah! That is how the experimental industry thrives. Way to go Marc! Keep up the good work buddy:D No, I haven't been building for more than a few years now, so you're right. I haven't kept up with your arguments or your engineering analyses. I'm not building a cozy. I don't recall ever seeing the word DEFECT. All I see is a new idea for a steerable nosegear. I wonder how many times you said, "It can't be done." I have several engineer friends in all aspects of engineering and when I want them to check my math or my analyses they always wonder how they didn't see what I saw. It's really funny! The common denominator, it seems, is vision and imagination. Don't tell me it can't be done. Help me figure out how it can be done. Forget the reason why. Off to work now I'll check in later.

Says who? You? That would hardly indicate that there aren't ANY out there. MARC:irked: So what is your point on this one? Maybe they're too busy building mains. Well, without either one of those your still in your parking spot, or off in a ditch. Could it be, just maybe, the takeoff distance on these airplanes might be a little shorter if you weren't tapping the brakes all the way down the runway or even halfway down the runway? Would that not be a good enough reason to have some steering capability? Not to mention maybe extending the life of a brake pad or two. How about tire wear? What about brake failure at 38kts? Before your precious rudders are effective. Who said anything about steering at 90kts? The brevity of your negativity is stifling MARC. I can't wait to see this. I'm sure everyone including myself will walk away with the feeling of enlightenment by, "Nothing will ever work, don't try anything new, don't question the plans", Marc J Zeitlin. I'll be the first in line at that forum:confused: Can't wait to see you there. You'll know it's me because I'll be heckling you out the door. Tony

Steve it does caster and it steers. That's what I was afraid of that the drawing wasn't clear enough. As it sits with this design I thought for sure you guys would be jumpin up and down. But sadly that didn't happen:sad: well I'll put it together and I'll take digital pics of it, this way it will be easier to understand. I hope in the end you'll say "OH I get it":envy: Make no mistake, this is a fully steerable and castering nose wheel the caster happens only if there is enough force to overcome the springs that you steer with. You can use gas shocks and conect them to your pedals. I'm using the tiller wheel its far easier to setup. Tony

Hey Guys haven't heard much since I posted my drawings are they that bad? I have some pics of the nose gear assembly of our 737's. I think the Tiller wheel is the way to go, very easy to rig and a simple install with the existing ng30. I'll post those pics tomorrow. If anyone has any other ideas I could draw them up in autocad and see if we can't get a more refined design. Does everyone understand what they are loking at in these drawings? I haven't drawn everything, I assumed alot, like you have seen a retractable nose gear before. If you have questions please feel free to ask. I'll do my best to explain what you are seeing. Tony

Aubry dream no more my friend I think (Oh Boy) I have the cure for what ails us . The preliminary drawing is done in CAD 2000. Everyone who is interested please send me a Private message with your e-mail address. I will send those out. Please let me know in your messsage what format you want the drawings in. If you have a cad program I'll need to know what version. I can convert to PDF but I recommend downloading a viewer as these are in 3D which will really help understand what is going on with the nose gear. All you need is a basic rear shock off a dirt bike one that does not have dampning adjustments. The shock is located in the upper tube assembley. The pin you see about half way down the upper shock tube is pressed into the lower strut leg, this pin slides up and down the slot that is milled into the upper shock tube, this eliminates the need for trailing links. You only have steering when the T is in contact with the steering fork located on the top of the trunion. I haven't drawn the springs that keep the nose gear straight after retraction but they are located on those pins that are stcking out of the trunion. 4:00 AM I have to go to bed I'll finish the rest tomorrow. Good night john boy!! Tony

Well I'm not sure if the side load issue will be as serious as predicted earlier(remember we are no longer using the stock nose gear leg) no doubt it will be there to what degree is still the unknown. I think(Oh here we go again thinking) if the wheel is still able to caster under certain loads and then when those loads are no longer greater than the steering mechanism the steering authority is automatically restored mechanically. so really, we have the best of both worlds. What say yeee?? Tony

Airwrench Well I would think(and I try to be real careful when I do that;) ) if it relinquishes, now your back to just regular castering differential breaking, which does work very well, that is right up untill a break pad fails then your just along for the ride or your spinning in a circle to the left:D the system I have designed is very straight forward mechanical setup the servo "thing" is more of an elaborate setup that does have some promise, if the technology is there to support it in the way of the servo. Which as I said before, the auto pilot servo, or one like it, may be the answere to steering our airplanes electricaly wich would eliminate some of the mechanical linkage. Tony

maybe! just maybe! we can incorparate cruise control servos to push pull the steering. This way, if there is to much torque on the gear during landing they will reliquish steering control and now the gear becomes castering again, say we have an indicator light in the cockpit that goes on and off as you have control of steering. Just like cruise control in your car if you touch the gas the little cruise control light goes off hit resume and now your bcak on cruise. Interesting idea that's all that I have on it right now. just throwing that out against the wall to see if it sticks. Maybe someone can run with it. Tony

Not sure what you mean by that? the whole design is basically a minor retrofit thats how I'm trying to design it:rolleyes: . After all who wants to redo there whole nose section? Not me! you know I actually went down that path for about a minute. I was looking at more of a servo driven steering maybe from say, an autopilot servo, but weight would be an issue, I believe that can work. As a matter of fact its easy to setup, have like a little tinnerman wheel on the side for steering just like the big boys do. I'll be finished with the nose gear drawing tonight. It'll be a starting point. No way do I believe its perfect I'm sure one of the great minds who see it, is certainly going to be able to find something I overlooked:envy: I'll render the drawing and post it. Owe By the way the shock I'm using is a rear shock off a dirt bike its inside the upper tube. You can see the spring in the drawing but you won't see the shock itself but it is there, if you swith to 3D wire frame you can see it. Tony

Well "bad" may be a relative term. I think that having a steerable/castoring nose wheel would be good. We could then avoid the side load issue. that is to say that if your crabbing and forget to put the rudder input in during touchdown at say 10lbs of preasure the nose gear becomes castering. I will be able to adjust that preasure during testing. Think of it as, steering with a shimmy dampner on both sides of the gear leg. If there is to much preasure on the wheel, the dampner simply absorbs your input and the wheel will caster to what ever force is greater upon it. If you press on the peddals at the same time with equal preasure the wheel will remain straight and the dampners will absorb your inputs. Now you are into the braking section of the peddals this way we don't need toe brakes one pedal does everything, it really does work. you'll see in the 3D drawings of it how it's going to work, for me it seemed like the obvious layout for this type aircraft. I certainly welcome everyones input to my ideas. Just be patient with the drawings, not quite done yet, Welcome back Aubry. I'm sure that between all of us on this site we can come up with a good steerable nosegear that won't require to much modification. I think we can do this without a drag link though we'll see. Tony

Aubry I worked on those drawings for the nose gear last night. I have to say I wasn't real happy with the way I represented my idea in Cad. So, I'll try again tonight and see if I can get this one to make more sense. Don't get me wrong I know you guys are smart enough to see what I'm seeing:envy: but I want it to be crystal clear to the first time builder. This way I don't have to draw it again:D Tony

I sent out the 3D drawings of my mains you guys check your e-mails Tony

Magnum, Airwrench Hey guys or gals? I can't see you so I don't want to offend:) I'll try to get those finished this week Ive been going crazy out here in Vegas with T.V. production stuff. I have part of this done in 3D just have to finish the top half. (easier said than done ). Airwrench what Cad are you running? I'll send you my maines too I think you'll like them. Magnum I'll have to do a 3 view drawing for you if you want it in PDF, might take a bit longer but I'll get it to you, Or you can download a Cad viewer on the net for free. Not sure what site is best,but I know it's out there. Jon Matcho is using one he likes that he downloaded maybe we can get him to chime in here. Now just so you guys or gals know I haven't made this nose gear yet though I fully intend on doing so. I want to get my maines done first then I'll do the nose gear. You will have to make some custom parts mainly out of aluminum nothing real exotic and no compound curves, should be pretty easy. Tony

Lynn Widening your fuse won't necessarily slow it down. I widened mine 4in"at the front seat bulkhead and 2in" in the rear. Makes a hudge difference, I highly recommend that mod if you have wide shoulders. I'm putting retracts on my bird as well, though they are my own design (think F-16) just not as complicated but the same idea, gear swing forward into an airscoop on the bottom of the fuse. Really cooooll:cool: . I really think that you'll see more than a 3-5knt difference. Gear up landing? maybe. It's been my experience so far that most gear up landings are pilot error. Not using a check list for one, not holding down the retract handle while the gear are in transition can certainly cause a gear up landing. I often wondered why todays aircraft don't utilize a small camera in the wheel wells so you can see your gear going up and down. I'v e seen several cameras that weighed less than 4oz with screens, you plug them into a cigarrett lighter, in color even. Amazing quality. You can bet I'll have a few in my wheel wells. Anyway, do the mods you want. I'll support you 100% if I can help I'll certainly chime in. B.T.W. Lynn I posted some template drawings on the EZ.ORG web site that might interest you. It's mods for the long nose and few template bulkheads thrown in there as well enjoy. Tony

Ap Thanks for trying;) I'll work something out. I'll finish the retracts first and finish the canopy and strakes. I'll leave the engine till last maybe then we'll have all this worked out Tony

AP Well I know tracy started with carbs. I agree with your post about our flight training fact is, I just recently started flying injected 172's and I hate starting them. (good lord give me a carb:irked: ) Don't get me wrong it runs well enough and the no carb ice issue is cool (no pun inteneded) but have you seen under the hood of an injected 172 holy cow! there is alot going on in there. there has to be a better more reliable way. does anyone know any other brand of Carb that has adjustable mixture? So far its a stock Lyc carb or a revmaster. I'll be honest I'm not pro carb or pro F/I just looking for the easiest safest setup. (Aren't we all:rolleyes: ) Thanks BTW for looking for that article would definitely like to see it, if you still have it. The other thing is no O2 censor which I know we don't use anyway but that is because of the 100LL otherwise it would be there. While I sand on my canard I start thinking alot about this motor. Right now I don't feel like our peripherals to make this engine run are even up to automotive standards now I may be way out of line saying that but look at what Tracy is selling, good stuff, no doubt. But there are still problems with MAP readings, that people are having partly because of no O2 censor I think, wiring issues, flooding.... I probably don't know what I'm talking about:rolleyes: but that is my perception as I read through all these web sites that airplanes have rotaries. Frankly! I think if your going to go F/I there has to be a way to use the stock mazda computer to run it, that would make me feel all warm and fuzzy. Better yet- Put two together and have a back up. But now we get right back to the O2 censor:irked: . (damn you O2 damn yoooouuuu) If I'm going to F/I, I really feel like if we could get closer to what Mistral has, which looks more like an aircraft engine and so far seems to be performing like one. I think it would speak volumes for this engine. Only, we can do without the $31000.00 price tag. (Probably why it looks so good.) Frustrated, Tony

Man! it just seems like a whole latta work to setup this F/I:sad: We have rotaries that are failing now with F/I so how good is it? maybe the injectors themselves might not be failing but certainly other subsystems of the F/I are so what is better/easier to deal with? There inlies the RUB:rolleyes: I guess. Is it just a matter of setup and nothing more with the carb and F/I systems? Or is it something more cynister like fuel line plumbing and 35psi fuel pumps? look at the old Chevy's, 4 barrels and ignition that was it. Yeah the mileage sucked but man they would'nt quit for anything unless it was catostrophic. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Tony

AP thanks for the post I really enjoy reading posts that don't start with "YOU CAN'T" Yes the ice thing could be an issue but plumbing carb heat can't be as hard as the complete F/I system. I'm now looking at two revmaster carbs these look like they may be the cool setup. I'll have to do some 3D rendering in autocad to see how this is going to play out, but at this point I'm leaning heavely to the Carb side just for ease of installation. for about $1000 I can have my entire fuel delivery done, manifold, plenum, and carbs now all I'll need is a good ignition system. Tony

I was out in may garage the other day looking at my 13b standing by for it's intake manifold when it dawned on me. " Why am I killing myself making this intake manifold when there is allready one available for a carburetor"? so rather than haveing 30psi of fuel preasure all I need is 5 or 8psi that would eliminate other issues less wiring for sure. All I would need is a solid ignition system maybe make an adapter plate for the Marvel shebler carb so I can adjust my mixture does this seem like viable option to anyone? I think I've been blinded by the F/I issue. I understand the fuel burn is only about .5 difference in favor of F/I but who cares? look what I don't have to do to make it run. I really could've had my motor running months ago if I wasn't injecting, I think:rolleyes: So before you post any wisdom please understand I'm not looking for "YOU CANT"S" I don't care what Tracy has I know what he has. What I want to know is what am I missing is it going to be easier than injection? and I would like to start a list if we could to figure out the Pros and Cons of the two. If I can't make this thing simpler I'm going with a Lycoming.. thanks for everyones help. Tony

Jon Is there anyway to just buy the sheets of interest? Say, landing gear and canopy details? I mean, I don't need to know how the whole berkut is built do I? Unless, I'm trying to build a Berkut. Which I didn't think that is what those drawings where for. I suppose you could build the whole thing from those drawings but I would think to build the jigs for the fuse alone would take you 6months. I built my Long Ez fuselage in under two weeks. Of cousre it's not rounded either. Do the drawings come with layup scheduals and fiber orientation? I wouldn't mind having a set but I'm not sure what to do with them. Tony

$675 bucks? holy cow! yeah those drawings look great but man they are exspensive:scared: Dave why are you posting aren't you on vacation somwhere? like Aruba or cancun or greenland or something? Jon I'm going to see if I can get those drawings into Rhino. If not, I'll redraw them into Rhino. I need to play wiht it some more anyway, so it'll give me something to do (as if I don't have enough, my wife is going to kill me) also what other drawings do you think need to be done next? by priority. I'll work on it. I have some time this week just pick the next sheet you want to see redrawn and I'll get started on it. This is getting really cool have you been able to make a spot on the site to park all of this information? not pushing at all, just wanted to see if that was still an option. Tony

Downinghawk I took a ride in Frank Pullano's VariEz two years ago and haven't been able to think straight since. Must build..... Yeah you have to be real careful when you touch that stick back there, you have to wear at least two pair of rubber gloves to protect yourself from getting build fever:D I'm home on R & R leave from Iraq for only a few more days. Sorry to here you have to go back. Be careful over there buddy. Jon/Tony, whoever the mastermind is behind these new templates - thank you. How many total templates are included in the original plans (as the appendix is not included in the TERF cds)? Are you guys planning on completing the entire set? Well this whole thing really started because of JON:irked: now everyone is scrambling to do his bidding:D no I'm kidding it was sorta a long time coming really. Jon made some great suggestions, and I happen to be pretty good a Autocad (Just ask me;) ) and voila we have some templates that everyone can use. I don't recall the actual number of templates in the original plans set 7 or 8 sheets I believe we should be down to 3 or 4 now that have to be drawn, actually the ones that aren't drawn you can buy the parts from a supplier and you don't need the template at all. I think we will eventually finish all of them time permitting, hopefully before you get back from the desert. Also, what is the main advantage of the longer nose modification No real advantage other than it looks realy cooooll. Well maybe some advantage it allowes you to move your battery further forward if you need to do to CG issues. maybe some extra storage but that's about it. Tony

Bart yes, I have the rounded nose on my airplane. I used the more rounded f-22 bulkhead that you see in my drawings. You can even go rounder than I did but the sides of the fuse are still relatively flat. So, you can round the bottom of f22 a bit more if you wish which will give you a really nice transition from the flat bottom into the rounded nose. I agree the rounded nose looks a heck of alot better than the stock nose. For the sake of building I kept the fuse sides flat because I didn't want the hassel of building a jig to get the sides rounded like the Berkut. sorry this is short I'm at work gotta go now. Tony

Dave nice to see you out there buddy. Busy at work hey? Jon I can render those 3D drawings as pictures and you can put them on a cd in a SW Isometric view. which is sort of a quartering view. the only thing is you can't edit a rendered drawing which might be a good thing. I do apologize for not sending the 2D of the gear attach detail it's a whole lota time to convert all the little things on that template it was far easier to draw it in 3D. I would definately have that one scanned 2D if possible. The other templates are pretty straight forward. By the way Jon, did I send you the bulkhead and nose gear drawings in PDF ? can't remember. Tony

Cybersushi I have a really neat idea that I'm implementing on my long Ez using a GSXR 750 fork for a steerable nosegear. I can send you the cad drawing if you like. if you need it in PDF format let me know I'll send it to you that way. I think you'll like the idea. As far as mains go? I'm not sure you can get a big enough spring in those tubes to dampen your landing. I think the infinity gear only travel like 4 to 6" or something like that I'm pretty sure its limited in travel. Motorcycle forks tend to have lots of travel I'm not sure of your background but there is quite alot of math involved in figuring K rates and dampning. I don't want to discourage you. Give it try you may come up with a really cool retract. Remember you don't want to be a pogo stick either. The only thing that I can see that really needs to be worked on, is the inner shock tube is very thin walled steal tubing, that would have to be resolved in order to use them as mains. I think Tony