tonyslongez

I forgot about that. My whilhemson does have a spring in it. How cool is that? That will make my life simpler. So this design is going to get alot easier to draw and make in the end, Here comes the next set of drawigns. Tony

Satch. Yes the moment arm issue is there. Remember thought, the initial drawings are not scale they are close but not scale I'm trying to keep the dimensions and moments as close to the existing wheel as possible and certainly try to keep the whole thing as light as possible. Try to think of it as not really allowing you to bach up your landings anymore than you can now. If you bang the existing stock Long Ez nose wheel on the ground hard enough it is going to fail as well. Keep in mind that your still going to use the same techniques for landing as you always have, holding the nose off until the last minute and landing on the mains first not the nose gear. I have alot of the kniematics worked out in the next set of drawings and the scale will be much beeter than what you see here. this is just me getting the ideas on paper as fast as possible then I'll work out the details. " Wayne No doubt it will take some getting used too. you can put that wheel just about anywhere you want to, as close or as far away form your throttles as you need. The nosegear is steered with a push pull cable. I modeled that from the 737's. Don't forget you will still have differential breaking nothing has changed in that department and the wheel will caster a certain degree during your breaking. I'll draw the rudder assembly what it might look like if you hooked it up to your pedals. As far as the mess behind the IP. Well I'm installing all my gear first and then I'll bundle things up around that. I don't know what you would do for an older bird with steem gauges that's a tough one. Remeber you guys these right now are just conceptial in a week or two I'll have a final design with all the necessary engineering taken care of. Have Faith. It's gonna be great. The shock is on the way that I want to use so I'll have the dimensions for that. I would like to have a working prototype by the end of next month. the T.V. show is geting crazy so time might be an issue. Thanks for the response. Tony

Dave where are you Dave?????????? I know your not working Tony

Dave is great:) Where are you Dave? how was your trip to Bermuda or Istanbul or maybe it was Argentina? If I sit here long enough I'll have you going all over the place. Tony

Rgold Interesting thought didn't see that one coming that's great:) . I measured the horizontal distance between the wheel center and the strut trunion. I forget what the part number it is but it's the block of aluminum that is floxed onto the strut and the caster shaft slides into it. Anyway, that measured 4 1/4 repectively that's pretty short. I can't measure from the top of the wheel well cover to the bottom of the instrument panel because the airplane is upside down on the hobby horse BUT! it looks like we may have plenty of room but I won't know the actual measurement until I flip the thing back over. I'm trying to make this thing as simple to retrofit as possible that's not say of course that there won't be some leval of modification to the wheel well i.e. extend it upward toward the panel slightly. Well my idea here is to keep the pedals out of the equation. I don't know how familiar you are to commercial aircraft but our 737's have a small tiller wheel on the side of the cockpit that steers the nosegear this is a wonderful thing IMO and would be a great way to steer our airplanes. I'm sure others have there ideas about that, but for ease of setup and overall effectiveness the tiller wheel is really the way to go. You can set the steering up to use your pedals as I see it, without to much modification but for me I'm going with the tiller wheel. Great idea, love it. I'll draw it up tonight what that might look like. Good point. I appreciate the fact that you are willing to present your concerns and experiences in a way that is non offensive and certainly condusive to saving my ass;) Thank you I agree I'll do my best to engineer the pucker factor down to the lowest common denominator (keep um coming) Tony

Here are a couple more

Jamie Hows it going mate? I have a question for you. When you look at these drawings which way do you think the wheel is pointing initially? The reason I ask is, My buddy I talked to today is a composites engineer at General Atomics. He loved the idea but he thought the wheel was facing forward then I explaned that the wheel was in trail and the black tube is the strut, then he really went crazy . I was pleased to here that he liked the initiall design now I just have to work out the kenematics and the rake and trail. So to answere your question, yes it may. That is why I'm going to use the foot that is supplied with the Jack Whilhemson nose lift, that should aleviate that problem. In reality I'll have to play with it for a bit to get all the bugs worked out. I have a few more drawings I'm working on that will be in scale, with the proper rake and trail for the caster and foot involved. Time to warm up the milling machine. I'm glad your thinking about this thing. I'll look real close at it to see where it goes and what kind of clearance I'll need. Tony ("Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from medicore minds" Albert Einstein)

what about a dead head sticker on a cadillac?

Awsome I'll say three hale marry's and anodize all my parts in holy water.

This is a little more water jet friendly to cut out. Tony

Jon I was thinking about the Berkut drawings is the idea to refrence those drawing or to actually build one? If I've ask this question already I apologize. what would be the benefit of having these drawings in our possesion? I would guess that the landing gear detail would be the most popular but how do you get parts or is the idea to make your own? That seems a bit costly. how are you coming with your fuselage? are you still going to round it? Check out some of the renderings I have on the steerable nose gear. I think it's getting there. I figured out how to render in color. Any Long Ez drawings I do from here on will look really good in 3D color. Tony

here are a couple more

O.k there we go, thats better. Tony

Here are a couple more I have to look at this one some more. Tony

Here are some other drawings I've been working on. This design might be the one I go with for my Long. The foot and strut are stationary. The steering fork on top is connected to an inner rod which goes down thru the strut out the bottom to steer the wheel. the foot would be made form aluminum and the strut might be carbon fiber. It's not perfect but it's getting there. Tony

Steve Did you look at the other drawings on page 3 of this thread? Remeber these are not scale drawings. Parts at this stage are going to be thicker or thinner in some places. These are just concepts that I'm working on. The trailing link is O.K. but there are better ways of steering if you'll look at page 3 of this thread, you'll see my idea of getting rid of the trailing links and saving weight. The motorcycle shock is inside the tube where the spring is visible through the slot. Which is essentialy replacing the trailing link. B.T.W. the shock is a rear motorcycle shock where the swingarm is. I'm sure everyone thinks I'm crazy but at this point, I don't see anyone else posting any ideas to work from. Which, I would love to see. This is very time conssuming. Just so you know the idea here is to try to not have to modify the ng30 or the current wheel-well position, Keep thinking we'll get it figured out Tony

Here are some other drawings I worked on. The bracket in the middle of the tube is for the whilhemson nose lift. I'm not sure why my Rhino isn't rendering in color. I'll try to get these in color so you can see where the bushing are then it will be easier to tell what rotates and what doesn't. Tony

How about something like this replace the aluminum fork with a fiberglass one that also acts like a leaf spring. Sorry for not finishing the drawing but you can kinda see where the cahnges where made form the last one:rolleyes: maybe make the nose strut out of thick walled carbon fiber tube very stiff. Let the fork now made of fiberglass act like a shock just like our maines. We can still use the springs for steering we may now be moving into a lighter nose gear. Tony

Chairboy I have a pile of leaves in my backyard I'll stand in the middle just hand the lighter to my wife. I'm sure you'll be more than happy to help burn the witch:D that's really funny I'll try my best to give you guys as much info as I have. Right now all I have are ideas and a machine shop. As far as I can tell nothing really changes except you can steer. We still use the same amount of shimmy dampning I'm trying to use the existing caster fork thingeee assembly. if it works now at 120mph why won't it work just because you can steer it? it doesn't know if its you giving it the input with your foot or some other external force like breaking, it just goes in what ever direction you tell it to go. I want to be clear here. I'm not sure if steering with your feet is the best way to go. I really feel strong about the tiller wheel. I believe it's possible to have close to the same turning radius we have with castering if we stick with the tiller wheel. Nothing really that's the beauty of it. It still casters. You have to look very close at the drawings I have on both pages of this thread. Try to picture what is happening. Look close at the steering bellhorn. If you steer with your feet and you have a cross control input during landing the fork on top of the strut is shaped in such a way that no matter what input you have the wheel is going to turn in that direction it works the same way any airplane is steered now with the rudder pedals. If you have a cross wind landing the wheel is pointed in what ever direction your foot is telling it to go. If you land nose gear first that's a crappy landing one, two the nose gear is going to kick over and so is your foot but with this design it just simply kicks over in about a half a second untill you either regain control of the landing or the force of the springs takes back over and you steer again. Any other issues you should still be on your mains untill the last possible minute then the nose falls then there is no issue. But that Mole on my crooked green nose sometimes clouds my thinking and I could be wrong on everything. Tony Tony

Steve Which drawing are you referencing? I have a few up there at this point. There are a couple on page 3 of this thread which uses a shock. This particular design I was thinking, I could use a carbon tube or a fiberglass strut for shock absorbtion kinda like what we have now. It just needs to be rounder than the square nose gear strut we have. Just so everyone knows those are not scale drawings. Just shooting ideas out there as they come to me, trying to get them down on paper. Tony

Well, the first quote took a minute. It's like I said before, just saving on simple wear and tear from dragging a break in high winds, or those long taxis at Osh. Sure you can buy lots of fifty dollar brake pads as you stated before but, honestly Marc, I don't want to tear my wheel assembly apart that many times. Heck, we are changing brake pads like mad on our 172 now, and it steers. I can't imagine what it would be like if it castered. Taxi ways and runways alike aren't always flat. They are more rounded so aren't you tracking alot when you taxi? I know I do and I'm steering with my feet(in the 172). There may be other advantages that I'm not seeing, but I think it's cool to let the consumer decide if they want a relatively light and not really that complex steering system. What's the big deal about SNG anyway? We should have that option. You agree? The second quote: I'm not sure I agree with that. Have you ever taxied a 737? When you turn that tiller that nose gear can crank over to damn near ninety degrees to the fuse. It's amazing the radius this airplane can turn in. I think you can have considerably more throw with the tiller because your dealling with a rotating motion not a linear, as the case would be with pedals. Just keep cranking the wheel until you hit the stops. Or set the ratio behind the tiller to the wheel, at say, 20:1 or what ever you want it to be. No, but we are talking about old iron (GA iron that is) most, not all, have some type of steering command other than braking. Yes the caster is lighter, simpler, works as least as well. I'm O.K. with that, if you want a castering nose gear. Some people want a steerable nose gear and this is a start to giving them that. Please for my sanity, stop saying how complex it is. I mean, it really can't get any easier than what you see in the rendering. It's a couple of springs and some pulleys. I can't make it any easier than that for what it does. I remember reading in my plans for the Long, Burt did try to come up with a steerable retractable nose gear, but in the end decided it was easier to use castering. I wonder which designs he was looking at to model from initially, before he gave up trying to come up with his own design? The castering does work, but if you throw some springs on it, you can steer it as well. You have the best of both worlds. All he had to do was look at it like it was a tail wheel and not a nose gear. I'm sure he would've come to the basic design I have. I know he is smart enough. Tony

Yes makes sense. Look at the renderings do they make sense? the way I'm looking at it is the nose gear of all these canards are basic tail wheels like from a tail dragger just in the front. The tube could be Carbon fiber, fiberglass, titanium or whatever. or it could be solid like what we have now. I don't like the idea of rigging the nose gear steering to the pedals I'd rather have a tiller wheel like we have in our 737's. So at low speeds say 40knts I'm guessing here. I don't know the spring rates yet. Lets say 40knts and below, You steer with the tiller as speed increases we get light on on the nose, so now we are into rudder steering is that right? My thinking here is that any heavy side load could easily overcome the springs kicking the wheel over to what ever side just like a tail dragger. Your airplane is now tracking in the direction of the load as it allready does. That is if you land all cockeyed. So basically like a tail dragger you are able to steer a castering tail wheel you just can't steer past the forces of the springs. Nothing really changes in our current build up of the ng30 as I see it. It doesn't know its a steerable castering nose gear. I may even be able to use the stock caster if not I'll simply machine a new one. Also we can still use the compression washers for steering dampning, They will just be on the bottom now instead of the top. This really is a simple thing to do. Tony

Marc i'm not going to even respond to that other stuff. I apologize for jumping down your throat and insulting you. In the end it is going to work and work very well and I have a fealling that you and everyone else are going to be pleasantly surprized. The issue of SNG keeps coming up someone ME is going to figure it out for whatever reason nobody else wanted to. So let me just say. "I really enjoyed our banter it stimulates my design ability". trust me when I say that I paid attention to what you posted though I may not agree with it, it did not fall on deaf eyes. I'll see you at Oshkosh. I'm not sure where you got 120mph though. can you help me with those numbers? Tony

Why is this any different than trying to develop a steerable nosegear. I've studied the existing nosegears quite thoroughly. I've developed my own, I intend on testing everything I'm developing. I'm attempting to use the technology that is available to me at this time. I'm not doing this to be different and what is wrong with being different? We fly canards don't we. How different is Burt? Very different. I feel like I'm an engineer in the best sense of the word. What makes you think the people you are addressing are laymen.? This is an open forum you know, or are you the only engineer in the world? Why do I need to steer at 120mph I'm sure you insisted that there would be no need to steer our aircraft after 40mph because our rudders where sufficient for steering so which is it engineer? 120 or 40:confused: Weighs less? No probably not. Weigh a little more? yes. Work better? maybe wouldn't know that until I get it finished. I don't need your statements Marc I've had enough of your statements and negativity for a few days. I could care less what you think of my mousetrap. Insults? hardly! " I have almost never said it can't be done" That's really funny. You never said it could be done either. I'm sure you meant the laws of physics as we know them. Well it's interesting that you bring up 2000 examples of castering nose gear for canards and yet there is 1000's more examples of steerable nose gears on other aircraft. It doesn't know it's not on a canard. We have over 450 aircraft in our fleet all of which have steerable nose gear which B.T.W. turn on a dime. For the sake of this very interesting discussion. Which, I still haven't gotten anything out of, with the exemption of "it can't or shouldn't be done". I will yield the balance of my time to further discuss this after the gear is finished. Untill then I'll go back to building my airplane and proving you wrong. Mr Hicks No sir I wasn't implying that we canardians lack initiative. I agree with your post. for the most part. I just don't have alot of time just now to respond properly. Just know, that your posts are far more constructive than some that I have seen Marc post and not just on this topic. His suggestions however relavant they are, don't come across his posts as constructive, at least not for me. All I was asking for initially was some feedback on the drawings if anyone can see something I overlooked that's all. I don't care whether it should or shouldn't be done it's going to be done so how do WE make it better? what I was looking for was, that looks like a good design, or bad. If bad, why? what about if you did this, instead, that would eliminate this. Or! that looks good try this. Not all this other happy HorseSh*$ I got in response. Good LORD! Tony

Jon No don't worry about us buddy. Guys like Marc have there place in this world. We need the nay sayers to keep the fires lit. God knows without guys like Marc we surely wouldn't be flying airplnes right now, the Wrights Bro.s would've just given up. Tony