2 seat tandem cozy?

[rotccapt]

Hello all, I am in the very early prebuild stage for a home-built project. I really love the canard look but running into a couple problems. First off, my friend and I are planning on building the plane. Combined we are around 500 lbs, from what I have read the max front seat weight is around 400 so at first glance that makes this project a no go. After looking into a Long Ez, I again found the weight of both of us too much for that plane. So I had a thought of building a cozy as a two seater just like the Long Ez. Using the sample weight and balance table from the POH it looks like it would work. 

My biggest concerns are, how much room is in the back seat? could a 6' 4" person fit in the back? 

Second, would moving the seats to a center line configuration cause any visibility problems with flying the plane?

Third I know there has been lots of builds where the cozy has been widened, any thought on making it 3 inches or so narrower? I could see this helping any visibility issues.

Thank you for your help.

[Mike B]

A 6'-4" person isn't fitting inside the plans version of either aircraft. That said, you can certainly deviate. Folks have added both height and width. If I was in your position, and really wanted a cozy, that is what I'd do.

I suppose a center line config may be possible. You'd have to go with a fixed nose gear. 

For some perspective, the front seat bottoms are 16" wide, the back, 12" wide...

I'm 5-11, 150#, and left handed. This plane fits me perfectly. 

[rotccapt]

Another thought I had was move the front seats back around 8 inches. For my mission, I only need two seats anyway. Running the cg numbers with the new position this would put me and my friend within the range and weight with full fuel

[Ron Springer]

On 10/2/2019 at 7:56 AM, Mike B said:

I suppose a center line config may be possible. You'd have to go with a fixed nose gear. 

Not sure why that would be true?

[Mike B]

In a center line position your feed would occupy the same location as the retracted nose wheel.

[TMann]

48 minutes ago, Mike B said:

In a center line position your feed would occupy the same location as the retracted nose wheel.

You mean like it does for a Long-EZ, Vari-Eze or Berkut?

Better do some research. 😁

[rotccapt]

After some more research I have decided to go with staggered seating.  I plan to move the pilot seat  and instrument panel back 7 inches and stagger the copilot back an additional 13. This will allow me and my friend to fly the plane in the middle of the cg range.  I will require around 30 lbs of ballast to fly solo but that is a fair compromise for me. Additionally with the staggered seating we will have more shoulder room.

Another question for your guys, for the landing gear attachment points, from the plans I am to make a 22 or so layer block of glass equaling a total of 1/4 inch. Any reason why a sheet of 1/4 inch g-10/fr4  could not be substituted for this part?

[Mike B]

4 minutes ago, rotccapt said:

 

Another question for your guys, for the landing gear attachment points, from the plans I am to make a 22 or so layer block of glass equaling a total of 1/4 inch. Any reason why a sheet of 1/4 inch g-10/fr4  could not be substituted for this part?

Yep, money. You can make that thing from scrap glass. You'll have lots of it. FYI, there was a stagger EZ out there at one point. 

[Mike B]

6 hours ago, TMann said:

You mean like it does for a Long-EZ, Vari-Eze or Berkut?

Better do some research. 😁

I thought about that after I clicked on the "submit reply" button. Of course, the Cozy wheel is 1/2" wider...

[rotccapt]

26 minutes ago, Mike B said:

 FYI, there was a stagger EZ out there at one point. 

I have been looking at that one. There are pics of another one as well cant find any info on it though. That is where I got the 13 inch stagger from. Figure if it worked for them it can work for me.

[Voidhawk9]

Staggered seating may be a good solution for you, yes. I'd recommending leaving as much as possible stock though, don't change any more then you have to, it eats a lot of time and adds complexity. Leave the IP where it should be, etc as much as possible.

[Barry]

"could a 6' 4" person fit in the back? "

 

For the Long EZE, yes. See my comment here:

https://www.canardzone.com/forums/topic/32064-long-ez-fit-for-taller-people/

 

[macleodm3]

8 hours ago, rotccapt said:

After some more research I have decided to go with staggered seating.  I plan to move the pilot seat  and instrument panel back 7 inches and stagger the copilot back an additional 13. This will allow me and my friend to fly the plane in the middle of the cg range.  I will require around 30 lbs of ballast to fly solo but that is a fair compromise for me. Additionally with the staggered seating we will have more shoulder 

There was a nice staggered seating Cozy project for sale... perhaps a year ago.  Looked like nice work in the photos.  If you could find this still for sale, it might be a good starting point for you.

[rotccapt]

5 hours ago, Voidhawk9 said:

Staggered seating may be a good solution for you, yes. I'd recommending leaving as much as possible stock though, don't change any more then you have to, it eats a lot of time and adds complexity. Leave the IP where it should be, etc as much as possible.

Im not in a position to do it right now, but I plan on making a mock up to see what all needs to get changed before stating on the project. I have a working model in Sketchup currently and im starting to see the domino effect changes make. biggest so far is the landing brake, next up with the copilot stick, then rudder. 

Thank you all for the info

[Voidhawk9]

There might be an easier way. By my understanding, the max front seat weight is a largely arbitrary number designed to to ensure the rotate speed is not too high (and thus extending the take-off roll), not a structural limit.

Moving the standard front seat back a couple of inches might solve the problem while minimising the fall of dominoes, as the moment of the front seat weight would be reduced. You lose some back seat space, but this may be solved with smaller girlfriends?  Also any light pilots would need to be extra careful to carry enough ballast as a rear CG would be more likely with the layout changed this way.

[Voidhawk9]

Some images from my collection of prior examples of staggered seating in EZs, for your interest:

Xtra-EZ

 

Stagger-EZ:

 

Stag-EzR:

[rotccapt]

Thank you for the pics, those will help a lot. During my research, I made a excel doc for playing with cg numbers. I found that me and my friend in the standard unmodified seating would end up being too far forward cg. My original plan was to just move the seats back which would work. I was considering the Eracer because it is already in this configuration. However another problem that came up was shoulder space. So without making the fuse wider, I decided on the stagger seating, this will fix both the cg and the shoulder space. No mater how I try and run the numbers, I can not get the plane to balance with me solo and no ballast, and allow my friend and his girl to fly as well.  

We will not be stating the the project until after Oshkosh 2020. I want to see all my options for kit/plans before making my final decision. I am looking forward to the build. regardless of how long it takes. Im currently building a 3d model of the Aerocanard SB (since the plans are open source) using the cozy bulkhead files in Sketchup to  try and work out the design changes.

[macleodm3]

9 hours ago, rotccapt said:

 No mater how I try and run the numbers, I can not get the plane to balance with me solo and no ballast, and allow my friend and his girl to fly as well. 

Well that is to be expected since the Cozy takes nose ballast when solo.