Cozy Airframe Cost?

[PAfly]

I've been looking at the Cozy IV and found a potential project that has been started. I have one simple question that I couldn't find in the archives. I am sure it is out there, just haven't searched hard to find it.

 

My question is this: What are the completed airframes costing these days? I have approximate data from a builder, but his data is over 10 years old. What are you guys presently seeing / expecting?

 

Your expertise would be helpful!

Thanks,

PA

[Jon Matcho]

Check page 10 of the 2007 Cozy presentation for Marc Zeitlin's estimates.

 

$40,000 - $75,000 sounds good to me for middle-of-the road VFR. I'd like to come in closer to 40 than 75 though. We'll see; I haven't done any real budgeting myself.

[argoldman]

PAf,

 

The above figure, I believe is for the plane and engine.

 

A good way to determine the value of a project is to look at the cost of the materials that have gone into it (cost available from ACS by chapter) and go up or down from there.

 

If you are interested in buying a project, or aircraft, for that matter, find someone really familiar with the CO, LONG, Veri--EZs so that a proper prebuy inspection can be done.

[Jon Matcho]

A good way to determine the value of a project is to look at the cost of the materials that have gone into it (cost available from ACS by chapter) and go up or down from there.

Don't forget to factor in the $1.00/hour labor add-on.

 

Seriously, Rich is correct. The cost of an abandoned project has typically been valued at the cost of materials in today's dollars.

[ZUCZZ]

my airframe costs came in at about U$ 15,000 (no motor, nothing but the plans goodies to make the surfaces work etc) ... then add everything you would like. Not included here is the transport, taxes etc to South Africa.

[Jon Matcho]

my airframe costs came in at about U$ 15,000 (no motor, nothing but the plans goodies to make the surfaces work etc) ...

That's not bad by me. I had $18,000 in mind (although no idea where I pulled that number from).

 

Chris, when did you complete your airframe? Built in the US and shipped to SA?

[Phil Kriley]

I've been looking at the Cozy IV and found a potential project that has been started. I have one simple question that I couldn't find in the archives. I am sure it is out there, just haven't searched hard to find it.

 

My question is this: What are the completed airframes costing these days? I have approximate data from a builder, but his data is over 10 years old. What are you guys presently seeing / expecting?

 

Your expertise would be helpful!

Thanks,

PA

You can go to AS&S website, search for COZY Mk IV, then add up the cost of all the chapter kits. THEN you have to add in the cost ($100/gallon) of the epoxy you will need. If you start buying pre-fab parts, the cost goes up from there.

[Big Steve]

So far I have $8,550 into my Cozy IV project. I have a complete tub and a complete canard I have my wheels and brakes in hand and nose strut and main gear leg bow. I have enough epoxy and glass to finish the project. I also have enough metal to make most of the parts left to make. I have not yet bought the canopy. I am waiting till after Rough River to decide on which canopy I want to buy. I think I will be able to finish the airframe for 15,000 If I can keep on this track. Of course I make all of my own metal parts. I will also make my own motor mount and exhaust and I am going to learn how to make a prop. I think I might be able to fly for around $30,000 if I can get lucky on a motor. STeve:scared:

[ZUCZZ]

Hi Jon Matcho & others,

 

About this time in 2004. Septemberish

 

All made out of plans materials, some from the USA, a lot locally sourced & lots of parts self made. The average exhange rate was R8/1U$, but it peaked in 2004 at R12/U$1. But my records do show about U$ 15K at the various conversion rates total at that time.

 

Then the money started rolling on the finishing, motor, electrics etc.

 

To date I have a total of U$ 50,543,50 in the project and 4150 productive activity hours to completion. Time to fly 20 hours has taken from 9/11 2005 today ... but I am slow!

 

regards

[rsrguy3]

Ok, since we're talking cost here. I usually hang on to, and use the stuff I build so, resale is not my game. I do need to know what a cherry cozy 4 w/ o-360, cs prop, glass pannel, and applicable radio's will sell for? This info is for my sweetheart- as she would be the seller in the event of any fatal bad luck on my part-(other activities, skiing, hanggliding, sports car racing, etc, etc.).-Guy

[Remi Khu]

Ok, since we're talking cost here. I usually hang on to, and use the stuff I build so, resale is not my game. I do need to know what a cherry cozy 4 w/ o-360, cs prop, glass pannel, and applicable radio's will sell for? This info is for my sweetheart- as she would be the seller in the event of any fatal bad luck on my part-(other activities, skiing, hanggliding, sports car racing, etc, etc.).-Guy

Why would you even bother with such a low risk endeavor such as experimental homebuilt aircraft? With the resources available at your disposal, why not just jump off a cliff somewhere?

 

Be real... this is a homebuilt forum, not bragging about our toys ...

[TMann]

With the resources available at your disposal, why not just jump off a cliff somewhere?

Freefall is not bad but base-jumping is a little too high risk for me.

[Big Steve]

Well If you like base jumping come on out here to Twin Falls Idaho. We have the only bridge in the country that is legal to jump off of. It is over the snake River canyon that Evil Kneivel tried to jump back in the 70's And not to hijack this tread your airplane is worh what someone will pay for it. Hopefully more than you spent building it. STeve

 

[rsrguy3]

Jeez ask an honest question! Bragging my a$$. What have they sold for? It's not a highjack. the thread (not tread) is about cost, all I did was ask how much it would COST on the back side.-Sue me

 

-Guy

[Big Steve]

Guy

 

 

I take it you are sensitive. I was talking about me highjacking the tread. I figure a nice one of these planes is worth $90,000 but I have not sold one either. Dont be so sensitive you take all the fun out of these forums. My

.02 STeve

[Edge 513]

Yea..pretty touchy. It was evident to me Big Steve[one of the ncest guys you'll ever meet] was refering to HIS possible 'tread jacking'comment.[and yea he slipped on the keyborad and misstyped the 'h'. Geesh.

To me your question is quite telling. But what the heck. I'm just observing.

If you are wondering about what they sell for...maybe you aren't really the type that is going to be able to finish this kind of commitment. If your a "danger-dan -dude", just go buy a big policy and you and she need not worry about the pittance she gets out of whatever level of progress you made it too before leaving the party. Unless the plane is finished they don't bring much. I doubt you'll get you materials cost back.

You barely have time to work a job, have a quality relationship, help your neighbors, AND REALLY make progress on the airplane. Cut out all the other 'dangerous' farting around, you don't have time for it. Ask anybody whose seriously building. Just build the airplane and be one of the 20% or less that actually have done it...and minimize all the rest of the risks in your life, or what time you will have spent building will go up in smoke along with your skinny a$$ if you check out.

Its a matter of priorities. I'm sure she'd rather have you here. Poor assumption?

My jaded .02

[Cozy Girrrl]

I had an attorney from Oz call awhile back, he was trying to establish the value of a Cozy project. It came down to the only person an unfinished Cozy had any value to was the 1. Soon to be Ex, 2. The builder and 3. A soon to be new Cozy builder. In this case it was a plane that had formerly flown then was taken apart and had sat idle for a long long time so its true status was unknown.

I have seen a flying IFR Cozy III go for $25K in repo, I have seen someone asking $250K for a flying Aerocanard (did not sell)

...Chrissi

[rsrguy3]

Touche' . My humble apologies Steve. I'm now to the point in my life where I hate unfinished prodjects, plus I don't sleep to good so I don't see completion as being of any concern. At this point I'm working at building my shop and will probably not start in earnest for at least a year. Although I will be buying plans soon. To clarify I was born into the aviation lifestyle and in no way see flying as a risky proposition. 90k seems like a fair value to me. As far as used or abandoned prodjects go I'm somewhat leery of others work if it's not documented, but with that said it seems like a great way to go cost wise as I want to fly-although I love building. My initial question was in terms of thinking of the future, with or with out me. I promise I will do better at enduring the ribbing, it's the that throw me off. Sorry to all.

 

-Guy

[Edge 513]

rsrguy....Oh yeaaa, rsr..that must be a Porsche thing you're pedaling.

BTW-Thanks for the PM.

I didn't put a smiley in my post, but I'm pleased you caught the spirit of it. Particularly the size of your azz. She would be able to verify and quantify. These birds fetch some decent $ if they are well done. Actually, they're a fat-cat bargain compared to a stress ridden 1973 Cesspool 172 for the same $....therefore of great value to the builder- as an aircraft, but not as a return on investment.=[

Keep pedaling=]

[rsrguy3]

"rsrguy....Oh yeaaa, rsr..that must be a Porsche thing you're pedaling."

 

I wish! Only the Japanese car collectors can afford those, me I just

found a cheap 72 model and have been spending the last 7 years working it over. Just painted it last year, me, in my garage. Lots of fun- my sweet, benevolent wife wrote that check, didn't even bat an eye. If this doesn't seem like a big deal, keep in mind I have 5 kids, all were living at home at the time. So now I need a Cozy IV to visit the grand kids and inlaws. Needless to say she likes the rational- it's a lot easier to say, "lets get a plane" than lets pick up a little two seat car.

 

-Guy

[Big Steve]

Guy:

 

I live 2 1/2 hours north of you . I know this because I worked down your way for a couple of months. If you want to see a Cozy under construction you are more than welcome to come and see mine. You could bring your parachute and jump off the bridge in Twinn. You can go down there almost any calm saturday and guys and gals are jumping off of it. STeve

[rsrguy3]

Thanx for the invite, I'll swing up asap, time allowing. I'll be sure to call first

Oddly enough BASE is the only thing I'm aware of the Mrs.'s will not approve of, and to be honest I'm just to chicken for that anyway.

 

-Guy

 

PM me contact info

[ZUCZZ]

That's not bad by me. I had $18,000 in mind (although no idea where I pulled that number from).

 

Chris, when did you complete your airframe? Built in the US and shipped to SA?

Sorry for the very late reply.

My Cozy was started 01 May 1995 & completed somewhere in 2005.

Plans stuff was completed somewhere in 2002/3, that's when the money started flowing.

 

If I had to do it again, the price would probably still be close to this. Our South African currency went for a loop during this period and the exchange rate went from (initially) R3/U$1 to almost R15/U$1, averaging on my costs at just over R8,50/U$1. Currently we look stronger because the U$ went a little weaker - good, stimulates your economy!