TDubs74 Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 I have a supplier locally that I can get the West system from. The pricing beats out any of the other choices at ACS. I know West is approved by the designers, but is not a popular choice. Any reasons why West is not worth the savings? Quote Tim W. Selling RV-8 empanage kit. Gearing up for Open EZ build. The struggle is real.
Kent Ashton Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 See "Gary Hunter's Epoxy Comparision table" here http://www.cozybuilders.org/ref_info/ People have built structure with West but I believe the lower tensile strength is why it's not an "approved" epoxy. To me it seems to be a softer epoxy. Fine for finishing though. Buy the West Microlight filler in the big box from a boat supply. Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold
Jon Matcho Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 West sands much more easily and is generally used for finishing. However, that does not mean it cannot be used for structural parts. Personally I would not, as the amount of money you would save is not worth the peace of mind. Epoxy costs will be a minor fraction of the total costs for the plane. Here's a worthwhile discussion on West 105 and choosing an epoxy system in general. I recall MGS (or was it ProSet) was not an approved epoxy when it was clearly capable. At the end of Nat's personal involvement with supporting Cozy builders, Nat was just keeping up with the basics. Since Aircraft Spruce purchased the plans we still don't have an "approved" list of epoxy systems that is actively maintained. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Kent Ashton Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Kent Ashton said: People have built structure with West but I believe the lower tensile strength is why it's not an "approved" epoxy. Sorry, for bad info. The 209 is approved 1 Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold
Jon Matcho Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 I vaguely recalled Nat approving it in one of his latter newsletters, but could find no evidence of that. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Kent Ashton Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 41 minutes ago, Jon Matcho said: I vaguely recalled Nat approving it in one of his latter newsletters, but could find no evidence of that. I am going by the Hunter list maintained by Marc, linked above. Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold
TDubs74 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Posted July 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Kent Ashton said: I am going by the Hunter list maintained by Marc, linked above. So, I'm looking at that list and they have N/A for RT cure times for Aeropoxy and MGS. Does that mean that those need a post cure? Quote Tim W. Selling RV-8 empanage kit. Gearing up for Open EZ build. The struggle is real.
Kent Ashton Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 https://www.ptm-w.com/aeropoxy/aeropoxy-faq.html#14 Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold
Jon Matcho Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 18 hours ago, Kent Ashton said: Sorry, for bad info. The 209 is approved Ah, I found this note in the Gary Hunter slide: "Resins Shown in Shaded Rows are NOT approved for construction of Vari-Eze, Long-EZ’s or Cozy’s" Still, there’s not a citation for the source of this, but I trust what Gary and Marc have to say on the matter. 15 hours ago, TDubs74 said: So, I'm looking at that list and they have N/A for RT cure times for Aeropoxy and MGS. Does that mean that those need a post cure? No, MGS and Aeropoxy (and others) are fine with room-temperature cures (some folks have post-cured some parts by putting in a hot attic, etc., but that's very uncommon. There's really no need. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
TDubs74 Posted August 1, 2020 Author Posted August 1, 2020 I'll probably go with Aeropoxy, but am still contemplating MGS, as I hear you use less of it, but not sure how true that is. Not a huge deal. I just figured it was a way to save on shipping and pay less for the product at the same time. Thank you everyone for the input. Quote Tim W. Selling RV-8 empanage kit. Gearing up for Open EZ build. The struggle is real.
Mike B Posted August 1, 2020 Posted August 1, 2020 West cannot be used except for finishing. It simply cures too fast. I can feel the mixing cup warming as I'm stirring. Something else to consider is the viscosity. A low viscosity epoxy is much, much preferable to a higher one. This is one of the reasons people use mgs. 1 Quote
A Bruce Hughes Posted August 1, 2020 Posted August 1, 2020 West epoxy is available in the local boat supply. THERE ARE TWO VERSIONS OF WEST EPOXY so don't mistake statements that someone thinks "West" is structural; The 105 epoxy IS NOT. Also there is a slow hardener and a fast hardener so you have to use the correct hardener for finishing depending on the temperature. Fast hardener gives a vicious exotherm and will melt your cup. Luckily practical all of the airframe was finished when I bought the project so I had little structural work to do. I used Aeropoxy but two times I had to arrange a way to keep the area of work at the right temperature (once when I had only shade to work in, once when I was in a hanger that was only 3-5 degrees more than the outside temp so I built a 8'x8'x8' box of styrofoam) BE CAREFUL of the temperature that you will have for 24 hours. Quote
Marc Zeitlin Posted August 1, 2020 Posted August 1, 2020 3 hours ago, A Bruce Hughes said: THERE ARE TWO VERSIONS OF WEST EPOXY so don't mistake statements that someone thinks "West" is structural; The 105 epoxy IS NOT. This is an incorrect interpretation of reality. "WEST Systems" is a brand name. The 105 is the resin, and 205 / 206 / 207 / 209 are the hardeners. Only the 209 hardener, in concert with the 105 resin, is approved for structural layups - the 205/206 hardeners are great for micro/finishing. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024
TDubs74 Posted August 2, 2020 Author Posted August 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Marc Zeitlin said: This is an incorrect interpretation of reality. "WEST Systems" is a brand name. The 105 is the resin, and 205 / 206 / 207 / 209 are the hardeners. Only the 209 hardener, in concert with the 105 resin, is approved for structural layups - the 205/206 hardeners are great for micro/finishing. What is your stance on the the West 105/209 Marc? Strong enough or not recommended? Quote Tim W. Selling RV-8 empanage kit. Gearing up for Open EZ build. The struggle is real.
A Bruce Hughes Posted August 2, 2020 Posted August 2, 2020 Marc: Thank you for giving the correct information. 105 resin with 209 hardener. I have Aeropoxy on hand and it works very well so I will continue using it. At least everyone should now be using structural material. Quote
Marc Zeitlin Posted August 2, 2020 Posted August 2, 2020 14 hours ago, TDubs74 said: What is your stance on the the West 105/209 Marc? Strong enough or not recommended? Any of the approved epoxies are by definition "strong enough" and "recommended". I do not know anyone who USED the 105/209 combination to build a plane, but it is an approved combination. Personally, I'd use the MGS or Pro-Set (and have used them both on projects), with the EZ10-87 for anything that touches fuel. But they all work. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.