Build Times

[TDubs74]

Not wanting to spend a decade on my build, I was looking for some input from those around this longer than myself. 

What do you all see as potential pitfalls that turn these projects into 10 or 11 year builds?  I would venture to guess that cash flow would be the number 1 answer, so let's say other than money. 

Go!

[Kent Ashton]

1 hour ago, TDubs74 said:

I would venture to guess that cash flow would be the number 1 answer, so let's say other than money.

For me the holdup is parts--gear legs, canopy, Cozygirrl parts, premade cowls and wheel pants if you want them.  If you had everything you could build one in two years.  When there is a delay getting these things, it slows you down, saps your enthusiasm and the project stalls.  Just spend the money, order all the materials you can and a couple gallons of epoxy.  Shipping is so expensive these days.  🙂

Edited July 19, 2020 by Kent Ashton

[TDubs74]

24 minutes ago, Kent Ashton said:

For me the holdup is parts--gear legs, canopy, Cozygirrl parts, premade cowls and wheel pants if you want them.

What did you find to be an average lead time on items like these?

 

[Kent Ashton]

For one, Aerocomposites who makes gear legs and cowls may not make them until they have several orders.   Canopies may take a few weeks.  Other stuff is pretty available but you have to look it up, place an order and wait for shipping.   If these were as complete as RV or Zenith kits, it would be great but you are ordering each item.

[Royal]

Do the cowls need to be weave? or can they be chopped fiberglass?

[macleodm3]

It takes 4000 hours to build a Cozy...  so if you build an hour a day and work on it 300 days per year then you have a 13 year build.

Thats what takes time... how many hours per day can you work on it?

[macleodm3]

31 minutes ago, Royal said:

Do the cowls need to be weave? or can they be chopped fiberglass?

Good question, and although I don’t know the answer I’ve never seen any airplane parts built out of chopped.  The strands in chopped are short and it likely isn’t considered structural (and the cowls are structural). 

[Royal]

How are they Structural?

[Marc Zeitlin]

43 minutes ago, Royal said:

Do the cowls need to be weave?

Yes.

43 minutes ago, Royal said:

or can they be chopped fiberglass?

No. Unless you don't give a crap how heavy your cowls are.

[Marc Zeitlin]

8 minutes ago, Royal said:

How are they Structural?

They're not. But there are 5 lb. cowls, and there are 20 lb. cowls, even with cloth. I don't even want to guess what they'd weigh out of chopped rovings. No one makes cowls from anything but cloth, and some use carbon and fiberglass to minimize weight. It's an airplane, not a Corvette body.

[Royal]

2 minutes ago, Marc Zeitlin said:

They're not. But there are 5 lb. cowls, and there are 20 lb. cowls, even with cloth. I don't even want to guess what they'd weigh out of chopped rovings. No one makes cowls from anything but cloth, and some use carbon and fiberglass to minimize weight. It's an airplane, not a Corvette body.

I'd have to weigh some of our chopped fiberglass parts vs our new weave parts. But yeah the old corvettes were pretty hefty. Our chopped parts were surprisingly light not that I would want to use them on an airplane.

[TDubs74]

23 minutes ago, macleodm3 said:

It takes 4000 hours to build a Cozy...  so if you build an hour a day and work on it 300 days per year then you have a 13 year build.

Thats what takes time... how many hours per day can you work on it?

And to think Rutan said 500 hrs for a fuselage.  Lol..

I can easily do 3 hrs a day once I get things running smooth.  More on weekends.  I will have to make it a point to just keep at.

4000 for a cozy?  No s***?  Thats a lot of work!

[Kent Ashton]

21 minutes ago, macleodm3 said:

It takes 4000 hours to build a Cozy...  so if you build an hour a day and work on it 300 days per year then you have a 13 year build.

Now I have to take exception to that.   You haven’t been building for 13 years have you Andrew?   It doesn’t seem like it.   Anyway, I think an good effort that works a little every day, and  a full Saturday or Sunday should not taken much beyond 4 years and 2000 hours.

[Royal]

My wife would divorce me if I spent that much time building an airplane.

[TDubs74]

A wife can divorce you for many reasons.  At least you get an airplane out of this way.  lol.

Edited July 20, 2020 by TDubs74

[Jon Matcho]

12 hours ago, macleodm3 said:

It takes 4000 hours to build a Cozy...

4,000 hours will get you a really good Cozy, which Andrew is building. If you buy all the prefab stuff possible, and build "good enough" you can come in under those hours. Still, that's a reasonable number worth coming to terms with.

The fastest Cozys have been built in ~18 months I recall. 

[Marc Zeitlin]

On 7/19/2020 at 6:11 PM, macleodm3 said:

It takes 4000 hours to build a Cozy...

2990 from start to first flight for me. Nat said 2500 hours - most of the folks I talk to say 3K - 3500, give or take. 4K would be conservative unless you're making a bunch of non-documented mods, IMO. There are a few folks that have done it in less that 2K hours, but I think they used a bunch of prefab parts that others made for them.

[macleodm3]

11 minutes ago, Marc Zeitlin said:

2990 from start to first flight for me. Nat said 2500 hours - most of the folks I talk to say 3K - 3500, give or take. 4K would be conservative

Ok, so if a build time is 3250 hours and you build an hour a day, 300 days a year, then it takes almost 11 yesrs.  
 

The point is, for many builders (myself included) its not parts availability or money.... its hours available to build each day.

[macleodm3]

12 hours ago, Jon Matcho said:

4,000 hours will get you a really good Cozy, which Andrew is building. 

Thanks😃.  If doesn’t weigh too much it will be pretty good...  The more hours per day you build, the less overall hours it takes.

 

On 7/19/2020 at 9:17 PM, Royal said:

[macleodm3]

On 7/19/2020 at 9:17 PM, Royal said:

How are they Structural?

If they aren’t built as strong as they are supposed to be, they’ll fail in flight, hit the prop, and likely cause loss of thrust.  So perhaps they aren’t structural, but the strength of the cowls are critical.

[Royal]

1 hour ago, macleodm3 said:

If they aren’t built as strong as they are supposed to be, they’ll fail in flight, hit the prop, and likely cause loss of thrust.  So perhaps they aren’t structural, but the strength of the cowls are critical.

I only wondered because the place that makes john deer parts and lots of other things made an engine cowling for an airplane he had sitting in his shop.