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Thinking about a Cozy

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Hello,

 

I am a long-time pilot, but have never been involved any building any aircraft.  Now, I've caught the bug to build a plane.  I have looked at the RVs, but am leaning more toward a canard plane. I am also new to this forum. So, please forgive me if I sound somewhat ignorant or if I ask questions that have been covered previously. My initial questions are these...

1. I've seen various posts and web sites where Cozy Mark IV mods are discussed that provide a little more interior room, including some reference to adding a few inches to the cabin width.  Has anyone ever considered or attempted enlarging the entire plan by 10 or 15%?  To my uneducated mind (with respect to aircraft builds), it would seen that the aerodynamics would remain relatively unchanged. Although the overall weight would increase, it would be just an overall enlargement of

all the parts.  If I'm over-simplifying this, please feel free to correct me! As I said, I'm very ignorant at this point.

 

2. I've also looked at the Velocity kits. Their performance is attractive.  Does anyone have any current info on the continuing strength of that company or updates on experiences with support, etc.? I did email one of the owners and received a very nice reply, but want to ensure that anyone I deal with is going to be around for future support.

 

3. Also with respect to the Velocity, what make the Velocity able to rest on its main gear and nose gear without having to be placed into the "grazing" posture of the Cozy?  Has anyone modified the Cozy so that the nose down parking is not necessary?

 

4. Finally, if anyone also has experience with the RV's, I have looked at the RV-10 and would very interested to hear any recent thoughts on the -10 vs. the Cozy vs. Velocity.  I know most of the performance differences, but would appreciate any insights on the comparative construction issues for these various options. As I mentioned above, I am leaning more toward the Cozy or Velocity, but am really pondering the differences in construction methods (composite vs. aluminum) and want to make the best choice.

 

Any general words of advice for a potential new builder will also be appreciated.  I have greatly admired viewing various projects online, some of which are probably yours.  I hope to eventually be able to be a knowledgeable contributor here, but for now I am just the "grasshopper."

 

Thanks!

Jeff T.

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Hi Jeff,

I'm just getting started building a Cozy myself, so some more experienced folks may be able to chime in and expand / correct me, but:

 

1: A Cozy 3 was built 10% enlarged (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/kitspages/dbutler.php). This will likely add a lot of time and complxity to the build, however. I am building a wider fuselage, and there are a LOT of domino-effect changes that come with it. Personally, I don't mind.

2: Velocity has been around for a long time, and I'm not aware of anything that would suggest they will not continue. Indeed, they are continuing development (Velocity Twin for example).

3: As i understand it, it is a matter of wher the centre of gravity is in relation to the main gear when unloaded. For Cozy's, it's too close to let it sit on all-3 usually.

4: I recommend getting a small fibreglass practice kit of some sort, and playing around with the materials. Find out if you like it or not. I did, and really enjoyed it, so I'm building in composite! Some people can't stand working with resins etc., so it would would be a poor choice for them, obviously.

 

Hope that helps a little!

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Hello, I am a long-time pilot, but have never been involved any building any aircraft.  Now, I've caught the bug to build a plane.

Welcome Jeff! That bug bites hard.

 

1. I've seen various posts and web sites where Cozy Mark IV mods are discussed that provide a little more interior room, including some reference to adding a few inches to the cabin width.  Has anyone ever considered or attempted enlarging the entire plan by 10 or 15%?

Search for "King Kozy" or "King Cozy" here or on the Internet for someone who tried to do exactly that. I may actually be confusing another similar enlargement attempt, but these projects tend never to complete. Heck, it's remarkable to finish a plans-built Cozy.

 

You have 3 modes/urges to contend with:

 

a) Flying (sounds like you got that)

b) Building (if you've ever used a tablesaw a hammer and sandpaper you're just about qualified, if not, you can learn)

c) Designing (you're probably not, but like many -- including me -- we tend to go through this phase)

 

My advice: If you build anything, build it as close to plans as you can and forget this 10/15% idea. With that said, there are a handful of minor modifications that allow you to gain some extra cabin room.

 

2. I've also looked at the Velocity kits. Their performance is attractive.  Does anyone have any current info on the continuing strength of that company or updates on experiences with support, etc.? I did email one of the owners and received a very nice reply, but want to ensure that anyone I deal with is going to be around for future support.

They've demonstrated staying power. The only concern I had with them several years back was when they were bought (?) by the Jet Racing League (or some-such name), but I think that's been undone at this point.

 

3. Also with respect to the Velocity, what make the Velocity able to rest on its main gear and nose gear without having to be placed into the "grazing" posture of the Cozy?  Has anyone modified the Cozy so that the nose down parking is not necessary?

Velocities are heaving and more importantly have different W&B than Cozys. If this is critical you may want a Velocity, or you come to terms with it being no big deal. The other benefit of a Velocity is that they have doors.

 

4. Finally, if anyone also has experience with the RV's, I have looked at the RV-10 and would very interested to hear any recent thoughts on the -10 vs. the Cozy vs. Velocity.  I know most of the performance differences, but would appreciate any insights on the comparative construction issues for these various options. As I mentioned above, I am leaning more toward the Cozy or Velocity, but am really pondering the differences in construction methods (composite vs. aluminum) and want to make the best choice.

Metal vs. composite -- both are sound, and don't let either side tell you any different. Personally I prefer sanding wood and making contours vs. the rigid feel of building with metal.

 

Any general words of advice for a potential new builder will also be appreciated.

Be sure you like building. It's a major project, so get ready to clear your plate of much all else. Consider buying an abandoned project. Ask questions, and do feel welcome to participate as we need more builders.

 

:)

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1. I've seen various posts and web sites where Cozy Mark IV mods are discussed that provide a little more interior room, including some reference to adding a few inches to the cabin width.

 

A few people increase the width of the strakes at the arms which is about all you need.  Google cozygirrl strakes.

 

 

Finally, if anyone also has experience with the RV's, I have looked at the RV-10 and would very interested to hear any recent thoughts on the -10 vs. the Cozy vs. Velocity.

 

The RV-10 is a bigger, more expensive airplane (6 cylinder engine, for one thing) with a big up-front cost.  You can build a complete Cozy for the price of of an RV-10 slowbuild kit--$46K.  Nice airplanes though.  Consider the social aspects.  The RV community is huge, they fly a lot of formation and have more social activities.  Acres of RVs show up at any airshow.  That's important to some people.  There are just not as many Cozy owners.

 

The RVs are more flexible airplanes than the canards and can operate out of short grass strips.  Cozy's are more comfortable to fly and just more interesting designs, IMO.  

 

It sort of comes down to what design you like and whether to put down $35K-50K upfront.  And, oh yeah, you gotta like epoxy and glass work.  To RV builders, it is "The F-word".  (Fiberglass)  :-)

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  Now, I've caught the bug to build a plane. 

I love building my Cozy.  I am so thankful the Burt and Nat for providing excellent plans for an excellent airplane.  What the heck would I do with my free time if I weren't building?  

 

1.  Has anyone ever considered or attempted enlarging the entire plan by 10 or 15%? 

Don't do it.  The Cozy MKIV is already pushing the limits of the design with its present size and weight.  Things are OK as they are... but the systems (like the nose gear) are already maxxed out.  If you build larger, you'll end up with a slow and difficult to fly airplane that breaks alot.  

 

2. I've also looked at the Velocity kits.  Does anyone have any current info on the continuing strength of that company or updates on experiences with support, etc.? 

Any company can go out of business any day.  Vans aircraft and Velocity could both be gone in a year, but they most likely will be here for a long time.

 

3. Also with respect to the Velocity, what make the Velocity able to rest on its main gear and nose gear without having to be placed into the "grazing" posture of the Cozy?  Has anyone modified the Cozy so that the nose down parking is not necessary?

Most of us see the grazing position as a benefit and we would not want to eliminate it.  It would be very very very difficult to modify the Cozy so that nose down parking is not necessary.  

 

4. Finally, if anyone also has experience with the RV's, I have looked at the RV-10 and would very interested to hear any recent thoughts on the -10 vs. the Cozy vs. Velocity.  I know most of the performance differences, but would appreciate any insights on the comparative construction issues for these various options. As I mentioned above, I am leaning more toward the Cozy or Velocity, but am really pondering the differences in construction methods (composite vs. aluminum) and want to make the best choice.

The RV-10 and the Cozy MKIV are worlds apart.  The 10 is a very expensive airplane... they sell for what... $120,000 to $150,000?  The 10 is a large, upright seating, true 4 passenger airplane.  Its like a 4 place Bonanza... big engine, variable pitch prop, big money.   You gotta have real money to get into the RV-10 world.

 

The Cozy MKIV is a widened and maxxed out Variez / Long-EZ.  Its really just a super fast ultralight compared to the RV-10.  Its fast because its small with a low drag profile (the seats are laid back like a supercar).  You can buy (or build) a nice (flying) Cozy MKIV for $40,000 to $60,000.

 

*Building an RV....  You assemble any modern RV kit.  The parts are all pre-built with pre-punched holes.  Its a VERY nice kit that goes together rather easy.  Think LEGOs.  Unfinished kits have fairly good resale value (if they haven't been messed up).

 

*Building a Cozy... You craft a Cozy.  You build almost every part of the airplane from raw materials.  Like I said... its worlds apart from an RV, and I do think its much more work to build a composite airplane than to assemble an RV kit.  Unfinished projects sell for less than the cost of materials.

 

*Building a Velocity... Not sure, but I think a Velocity is somewhere in between an RV kit and building a Cozy from plans.  You can choose to build parts or you can buy them completed.  More options than I am aware of.

 

 

 

Issues... there aren't any issues with any of these routes.  An RV kit is easier and much faster to build, although it cost a lot more money, and you are required to buy expensive kits.  A Cozy is nice because you just spend a little bit of money each month (great for family budgets).  A Velocity is somewhere in between I suppose.  

 

Ask yourself.... do you want to craft an airplane for 7 years or do you want to assemble a kit for 4?  There is no wrong answer, but the paths are very different.

Edited by Andrew Anunson
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I think if a Cozy is on the smallish side for you, an RV-10 or if you want a canard design Velocity XL would be better for you.  That said both are a lot more expensive... as in probably double to triple depending on panel etc.

 

Personally I like not having the same (Van's) airplane as 1000 others on the field at KOSH.

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Jeez, just noticed you're in Jefferson... I'm off Jefferson Rd. in Athens, 10-15 mins away.

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This modification recently caught my eye:  Staggered seating in a Cozy Mark IV (Scott Carter's)

 

You can compare that with Steve Wright's design in his Stagger EZ.

 

Staggered seating is taking it to a whole 'nother level -- with the "Cozy Girrrl" extended strakes there's a lot of room for 2 shoulder-to-shoulder.

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