wanting a custom canard...

[Istrebitel]

Alright folks,

 

Let me start by saying, "I am a noob." Now then, I am intending to build a canard. I want it to be as fast and light as possible. I am a big guy and I'll need a little elbow room, so if I want a two-seater (and I do) I'll have to make some mods.

 

That said, I have looked at the Berkut. I'm not aware of any other aircraft that are competitive to this. Sorry, EZ guys, I want more speed. If you know of any, speak up! I don't wan't to drop in a bigger motor to go fast. I want a slippery plane.

 

I really like the stats I've seen on this bird. 250+ knots, less than 10 GPH, 19:1 glide ratio!!! It's my kind of plane. Also, I am considering the Zoche diesel, because of it's (stated) abilties. Yes all of you flamers, I know it's vapor-ware!!! I've posted on this thread:

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1571&page=2

 

With the combined efficiencies of the a/c and engine, I would like to make some long and fast X-C flying with my wife (no dirty jokes please), so I may need some bigger tanks (Trans-Pacific?). Could I make integral modifications (even 5-10 gal worth) to the plane or would I have to buy/build external tanks?

 

Also, can this plane be pressurized? To what altitude?

 

Is there any way to give the plane less drag? Maybe through the canard, or else what?

 

Who has the most experience on this forum with the Berkut (or any other comparable)?

 

 

Financial considerations aside (really), what would be your advice on building this plane?

 

This is my dream to build. Please, don't bash me. I am excited and enthused to design and build something of this caliber.

 

Some other factors to consider:

 

I'm in college and I have 2 years of school left.

I have no kit building experience.

I enjoy building/designing.

I love to fly:).

I'm willing to listen and learn.

I need your help/experience.

[Marc Zeitlin]

I really like the stats I've seen on this bird. 250+ knots, less than 10 GPH...

You won't get 250 kts. on 10 GPH. Those are independent #'s.

 

Also, I am considering the Zoche diesel, because of it's (stated) abilties. Yes all of you flamers, I know it's vapor-ware!!!

Then you should know to ignore it. It's no different than claiming that you want anti-gravity, and you know it's not quite available yet. The Zoche wasn't available when I started building in 1995 (even though it was right around the corner), and it isn't any closer to being available now.

 

.. Could I make integral modifications (even 5-10 gal worth) to the plane or would I have to buy/build external tanks?

There are many external tank mods to be made - there's really no place to put 10 gal. inside.

 

Also, can this plane be pressurized? To what altitude?

Nope. Not a chance. Brand new plane.

 

Is there any way to give the plane less drag? Maybe through the canard, or else what?

There are some methods, involving winglets, cooling drag, and some others. Web searches will find some of them.

 

Who has the most experience on this forum with the Berkut (or any other comparable)?

That would be Richard Riley - one of the principals in Berkut. He won't tell you anything substantially different than what I tell you, though, at least with respect to these questions.

 

Financial considerations aside (really), what would be your advice on building this plane?

Go right ahead, if you can find an unbuilt kit, but make sure your expectations (of yourself and your travel needs, as well as the aircraft) are reasonable - not pie-in-the-sky.

 

I'm willing to listen and learn.

I need your help/experience.

Then spend a LOT of time reviewing the archives of this forum, as well as the COZY mailing list, the canard-aviators mailing list, and any and all web sites that you can find. It's all been asked before.

[Richard Riley]

The only point where I disagree with Marc is on the fuel. Later airplanes, with molded wings, put about 15 extra gallons in the wings just outboard of the strakes. Beyond that, you could put about 50 gallons in underwing pods and for record attempts another 50 in the back seat.

 

As to how to get one - they're rare. I'll sell you mine, but it's REALLY, REALLY, REALLY expensive.

[Istrebitel]

You won't get 250 kts. on 10 GPH. Those are independent #'s.

Then what are real numbers?

 

Then you should know to ignore it. It's no different than claiming that you want anti-gravity, and you know it's not quite available yet.

Oww.

 

The Zoche wasn't available when I started building in 1995 (even though it was right around the corner), and it isn't any closer to being available now.

Sure. If it's not the Zoche, then another diesel.

 

Nope. Not a chance. Brand new plane.

Ok, so I need supplemental oxygen for high cruise?

 

There are some methods, involving winglets, cooling drag, and some others. Web searches will find some of them.

Doesn't the Berkut have "winglets"? They're rudders, right?

 

That would be Richard Riley - one of the principals in Berkut. He won't tell you anything substantially different than what I tell you, though, at least with respect to these questions.

Awesome. That's a good start.

 

Go right ahead, if you can find an unbuilt kit, but make sure your expectations (of yourself and your travel needs, as well as the aircraft) are reasonable - not pie-in-the-sky.

sigh...I knew I'd get flamed. Did I tell you I'm new to all this stuff?

 

Then spend a LOT of time reviewing the archives of this forum, as well as the COZY mailing list, the canard-aviators mailing list, and any and all web sites that you can find. It's all been asked before.

Yes that's true, but I'm lazy. J/K. No, I am finishing up finals and I'm buying a home. I don't have a lot of time to seperate the wheat from the chaff. I am looking for direct answers to some of my questions. Ok, I guess I am lazy...Hopefully, this summer I'll have more time.

[Istrebitel]

I would like to add that I have spent some time looking at websites online. The most helpful one I found was Berkut13.com. If any one has more/better stuff, let me know.

 

I don't like searching through all the forums because a lot ends up being drivel. Plus, it's time consuming and I would question some of the credability of the posts. That aside, I have learned quite a bit from the forums.

 

The only point where I disagree with Marc is on the fuel. Later airplanes, with molded wings, put about 15 extra gallons in the wings just outboard of the strakes. Beyond that, you could put about 50 gallons in underwing pods and for record attempts another 50 in the back seat.

 

As to how to get one - they're rare. I'll sell you mine, but it's REALLY, REALLY, REALLY expensive.

 

So, helpful to know before buying! Thanks!

[satch]

I am looking for direct answers to some of my questions.

Then you really need to hire a consultant. Forum is just that, a forum for exchange of ideas. It also appears from some of your posts you're not too interested in the answers. A couple of the rock stars here, who really know what they're doing and have actually DONE it, have chimed in and provided you with feedback on this and your Zoche thread ... If it were me, I'd listen, but that's just me...

[mplafleur]

The Zoche wasn't available when I started building in 1995 (even though it was right around the corner), and it isn't any closer to being available now.

Not only not closer, try further. I heard they closed up shop.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Then what are real numbers?

Ask Berkut flyers. Expect to get what - 10-15 kts better than a Long-EZ with the same power, Richard? Maybe 200-220 kts with an O-360 burning 10-11 gph, and the 250 kts at 14-15 gph with an O-540? That sound in the ballpark? These would be TAS's, at altitude. Richard (or others) can fill you in better on the #'s.

 

Ok, so I need supplemental oxygen for high cruise?

See the FAR's for the O2 requirements at altitude.

 

Doesn't the Berkut have "winglets"? They're rudders, right?

The rudders are ON the winglets, but there are modifications that may be done to the way that the winglets are mounted to the wings that can substantially decrease drag.

 

sigh...I knew I'd get flamed. Did I tell you I'm new to all this stuff?

You think that's flaming? Being told to make sure that your expectations are reasonable?

 

Flaming would be: "you're a complete idiot for even considering the Zoche, since everyone with 1/2 a brain knows that it's vaporware and always will be". But I didn't say that, or anything like it.

 

Yes that's true, but I'm lazy. J/K. No, I am finishing up finals and I'm buying a home. I don't have a lot of time to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

IOW, "I'd like someone else to do my work for me". Do your homework, then ask questions. If nothing else, ask where to find the information you seek. Which info you were given in my first response, down at the bottom of the posting.

 

I am looking for direct answers to some of my questions.

And you got them. Whether you like the answers or not is a different issue. You were also pointed to a treasure trove of useful information to read through.

 

Ok, I guess I am lazy...Hopefully, this summer I'll have more time.

There's a lot to read, and you'll learn a lot. Including whom to pay attention to, and whom to ignore.

 

Doing your research on what your requirements are (and not just "wow, that's so cool!!!") and what the options are is the single biggest factor in determining whether you'll actually finish a project that you start (which most people don't).

 

Also, join the CSA, get the newsletter and read ez.org.

[Big Steve]

estrabite said:

 

Yes that's true, but I'm lazy. J/K. No, I am finishing up finals and I'm buying a home. I don't have a lot of time to seperate the wheat from the chaff. I am looking for direct answers to some of my questions. Ok, I guess I am lazy...Hopefully, this summer I'll have more time.

What you have to understand is that most of us are either very busy building a plane or very busy flying and maintaining one we already built. We try to help each other out when we have problems we encounter. Your being lazy takes up mine and others building time We dont know if you will every even buy a set a plans. I have over 800 hours of build time and maybe that much in reasearch time. I only bother to ask questions when I cant find the answer. Lazy is a really poor excuse if you want exsperienced help off of this forum. My .02 Steve Build on

[Spodman]

Plus, it's time consuming and I would question some of the credability of the posts.

Erm, are they more credible if they are 'fresh'?

If it's not the Zoche, then another diesel.

My dream too, but there aren't many choices. Those that ARE available are too expensive new, and rare as rocking horse crap used. All the others are so far vaporware, until they start selling. I got a bit excited about the DeltaHawk a while ago, you still can't buy one.

[Istrebitel]

Ok, well thanks to those who have been answering questions and advice.

 

estrabite said:

 

 

 

What you have to understand is that most of us are either very busy building a plane or very busy flying and maintaining one we already built. We try to help each other out when we have problems we encounter. Your being lazy takes up mine and others building time We dont know if you will every even buy a set a plans. I have over 800 hours of build time and maybe that much in reasearch time. I only bother to ask questions when I cant find the answer. Lazy is a really poor excuse if you want exsperienced help off of this forum. My .02 Steve Build on

IOW, "I'd like someone else to do my work for me". Do your homework, then ask questions.

Well, I guess you guys don't understand my sense of humor then.

 

If nothing else, ask where to find the information you seek. Which info you were given in my first response, down at the bottom of the posting.

I have spent the last few weeks online looking for stuff. Now, I am asking questions I can't find. I have been asking for where to find information.

[Istrebitel]

Ask Berkut flyers. Expect to get what - 10-15 kts better than a Long-EZ with the same power, Richard? Maybe 200-220 kts with an O-360 burning 10-11 gph, and the 250 kts at 14-15 gph with an O-540? That sound in the ballpark? These would be TAS's, at altitude. Richard (or others) can fill you in better on the #'s.

 

The rudders are ON the winglets, but there are modifications that may be done to the way that the winglets are mounted to the wings that can substantially decrease drag.

 

Also, join the CSA, get the newsletter and read ez.org.

This was very helpful thanks.

[Neverquit]

Well, I guess you guys don't understand my sense of humor then.

 

Um, make that a "you" instead.

 

What you have to understand is that most of us are either very busy building a plane or very busy flying and maintaining one we already built. We try to help each other out when we have problems we encounter.

I wish that were true sometimes. In defense of the noob, I find it difficult to get good answers here. My best resource has always been the archives. It goes back 20 years of "done that." My favorite answer from another forum was throwing out a new idea for defense against a gear up landing. The intelligent answer I received was, "let us know how it works when you land gear up". Steve, you'd be surprised how many members here haven't even bought the plans and they're still welcome. Our buddy Spod can attest to that. We'll keep em'.

[macleodm3]

Now then, I am intending to build a canard.

Cool! It truly is fun to have a project to be able to work on in the evenings.

 

I am a big guy and I'll need a little elbow room, so if I want a two-seater (and I do) I'll have to make some mods.

I'm not a Berkut expert by any means, but I do know that the Berkut WAS a kit that you could buy. I don't think that you can get new kits these days. Also, the fuselage in the kits is premolded, so it doesn't seem reasonable to try and widen the fuselage. Maybe some extra width using the wing strakes for your elbow? How big a guy are you? Most people, even the big guys, seem happy buzzing along in the stock 200 mph Ez's and Berkuts, even if it is a little tight.

 

That said, I have looked at the Berkut. I'm not aware of any other aircraft that are competitive to this. Sorry, EZ guys, I want more speed. If you know of any, speak up! I don't wan't to drop in a bigger motor to go fast. I want a slippery plane.

All the Canards are slippery and fast. Do a search on the Cozy 540... yep, its fast. The Berkut does seem to be the "top dog", but its not for sale anymore, and when it was, it was very expensive. 200 is FAST. It seems any aircraft flying 250 mph and up is going to use ALOT of fuel, and ALOT of engine.

 

Yes all of you flamers, I know it's vapor-ware!!!

Please get it out of your head that we are flamers. We don't flame, but we do speak our mind. We are all here to help each other, and sometimes raw experience doesn't go down smoothly.

 

Ok, so I need supplemental oxygen for high cruise?

Many of the Canard pilots use oxygen for their cross country flights. Visit the rough river flyin and check out the bottles.

 

Is there any way to give the plane less drag? Maybe through the canard, or else what?

These planes were designed, From DAY 1, so be non-draggy. There are some small adjustments that can be made. I haven't seen any major modifications that make them much faster. The speed "tuners" in the Canard world are faster, but it ain't easy.

Most mod's slow the planes down.

 

Financial considerations aside (really), what would be your advice on building this plane?

1) Find a plane to build. Can you even find a Berkut kit for sale? I don't know. You should consider plans or a Velocity if you want a Canard 2)Find a place to build. 3)Build

 

 

I'm in college and I have 2 years of school left.

You can start building bulkheads now.

 

I have no kit building experience.

None needed. None of us had any when we started either.

 

A good start would be to download the open-ez plans and see if a plans built EZ could help with you mission (Berkut is nice, but how do you get one?)