Community letter to Burt

[Remi Khu]

OK, the picture is getting clearer. I'm a bit myopic and dense

 

It seems the key is to present Burt with the GPLD licensing plan and convince him that it will release him from all liabilities. Since he is no longer interested in selling his Long EZ plans, this will harmlessly pass on his wonderful creation to future generations.

 

As above, Burt has the prerogative to accept or reject. IMHO, a dialog with Burt needs to take place before launching this Open EZ movement, AND if he rejects the plan... so be it. It is not ours to take without permission, even if we don't call it a Long EZ.

 

Please don't misunderstand, I would love to see the resurgence of canards at Fly-Ins. The gaggles of RVs are becoming an irritant. It's just that I would like to see it with "daddy's" permission. And as you stated Steve, if approached with a good sales pitch, Burt might buy it. I hope we are on the same page.

[SteveWrightNZ]

It seems the key is to present Burt with the GPLD licensing plan and convince him that it will release him from all liabilities. Since he is no longer interested in selling his Long EZ plans, this will harmlessly pass on his wonderful creation to future generations.

Yes indeed. There are other benefits as well, one of which is will put him back in place as father of the project - a position he now fears due to liability, and a position that we all endlessly respect him for... The man who spawned a whole new back-to-front way of thinking

 

As above, Burt has the prerogative to accept or reject. IMHO, a dialog with Burt needs to take place before launching this Open EZ movement, AND if he rejects the plan... so be it. It is not ours to take without permission, even if we don't call it a Long EZ.

Well that is not my call, but I share your thoughts on this.

 

This will be the last of my opinion on this for now, as the project leaders are no-doubt tiring of it. Kudos to the leaders and shakers - I am looking forward to your positive outcome.

 

 

best,

SteveWrightNZ

[RGlos]

Opps

 

Interesting reading

 

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#permission

 

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

[Jon Matcho]

It is not ours to take without permission, even if we don't call it a Long EZ.

As recent as July 2006 Burt was rather clear that he wants nothing to do with any derivative designs. He doesn't even want to be asked for permission IMHO.

 

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

We're working under the Fair Use clause, for personal research and educational purposes. Nothing is being sold and no market is being impacted. We are not providing copies of plans, just add-on drawings that represent a tiny portion of the overall work.

 

 

§ 107 · Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

 

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Anyone joining in now should go back and read this thread from the start. I have checked the concern with an intellectual property attorney prior to starting.

 

With all that said, and the regardless of any assurances the law, my attorney, or anyone here provides, this issue will soon be made moot once the new drawings are made available.

[HatSwitch]

This letter-to idea dead-on-the-vine yet?

[Jon Matcho]

The letter is not a high priority, and if you read back through the recent posts on the topic, most agree. If we ask a question, we very well may get an answer.

 

The solution to the PERCEIVED problem is simple... allow the drawings to evolve, in CAD, to the point where they are unique works.

[Chairboy]

Reading some of the replies including Hatswitch's one above, I perceive a sort of weird vehemence like I'm some kind of enemy. What's up with that? The LongEZ seems like an ideal candidate for being formally released under an open license, and that's all the letter doc on the wiki is suggesting.

 

Also, if the current legal situation surrounding the use of the plans is so snow pure, then why is this conversation controversial?

[Jon Matcho]

Reading some of the replies including Hatswitch's one above, I perceive a sort of weird vehemence like I'm some kind of enemy. What's up with that?

I would chalk your perception up to a mild case of paranoia. I certainly don't consider you any sort of enemy.

 

The LongEZ seems like an ideal candidate for being formally released under an open license, and that's all the letter doc on the wiki is suggesting.

No, the letter originally had 'Open-EZ' all over it. If you want to solicit an opinion on whether the Long-EZ (note the correct spelling lest you risk offending the designer) should be released as open source, go for it.

 

Also, if the current legal situation surrounding the use of the plans is so snow pure, then why is this conversation controversial?

Being correct often doesn't win. What if all this commotion became troublesome enough for Burt Rutan, Scaled's board of directors, Charles Branson, etc., that they quickly determined the answer was to send me a 'cease and desist' letter threatening legal action? Right or wrong, the Open-EZ project is dead at that point.

 

That is... until the new drawings are released, at which point they do not have a legal leg to stand on. HOWEVER, that still will not stop a lawyer from taking more actions AND requiring someone to defend their ultimately-proper position with cash.

 

What is it that you need to gain that you don't already have today? Consider that against what is at risk to the canard-building community. Give it a break, at least for now, until the new drawings are available.

[Drew Swenson]

Everything is risk. We accept, mitigate or transfer risk everyday---whether this is doing a flight test, flying a cross-country, crossing the street, driving fast, or sending a letter to Burt.

 

Already pointed out....but

Burt is probably very happy to just ignore all this activity going on. After all, you can't sue him for the design that you copied---and it does not even have the name Longez on it.

 

What in the world does Burt gain with the letter? He is not going to make money on it-----and he does not want to make money on it (otherwise he would still be selling designs).

 

However, the letter may box him into a corner----and he might just have to "make a ruling" on it-----and based on his risk tolerance of nothing to gain----say "no"

 

Everyone should be happy that he is just looking the other way.

[Waiter]

Drew, I think you summed it up perfectly.

 

Waiter

[magnum]

AMEN :thumbsup:

[HatSwitch]

Reading some of the replies including Hatswitch's one above, I perceive a sort of weird vehemence like I'm some kind of enemy. What's up with that?

Sorry if you were personally offended by my question. It wasn’t intended to be snide or vehement, just to the point and remains unanswered. I certainly do not consider you to be an enemy by any measure, and quite to the contrary, I enjoy and appreciate the majority of your contributions to the community. But, I do question your motives promoting such an effort considering you clearly stated you do not intend to build on the Open-EZ project. So why bother?

 

I’ve read every post on this issue so far and have also read the letter-to and all of its edits. Seems to me the letter-to has already run out of development steam, yet its mission remains unfulfilled like an abandoned windsock flapping helplessly between a long-ago plowed-under runway and an active highway.

 

“Ain’t no stinkin airplane gunna pay any attention to me no mo!” The poor lonely abandoned windsock cried out unheard as a wind gust tilted his shredded blow hole toward the highway, “Maybe I can flag down a stinkin lawyer instead?”

Ah, if only windsocks could talk.

Perception is a two-edged sword. I too sense some vehemence, but its not coming from any Open-EZ folks, it seems to me to be coming from a few (declared not gunna build an Open-EZ) Cosy-folks. So again, why bother?

What is the true mission of this letter-to?:

- Get a green light on the Open project?

- Or chum the waters in hopes of attracking a few sharks?

I was told by someone close-to To, that To basically answered the question concerning EZ copies,

“Knock yourselves out, just don’t call it a Long-EZ.”

So what remains the problem?

- To’s not getting a cut?

If someone decides to dance the Open-EZ, at minimum they or someone on their behalf is going to pay for the TERFs, a cut of which, as I understand it, goes back to To as a royalty. Textbook information on CD generally doesn’t cost 2-300 bucks. This information is out there at that price level (IMHO) because its fully understood what its intended use will be, and presents a greater value to the aviation world than to just otherwise let it die on the vine like other lesser value text initiatives should. Again IMHO.

 

I suggest that if someone edited out every reference to the Open-EZ project and her “Folks”, including those which show up all over the previous versions logged in the edits, that would eliminate what I sense most of us see as a strategically placed bulls-eye and hense this letter-to’s true mission becomes dead in the water. I may be wrong and certainly hope I am, but the subtext of the letter-to basically says,

 

“Notice me, notice them, get in their way, pa leezzz!”

The way I see it: the issue of Clone-EZ’s has long been resolved with the development of the Berkut, Eracer and the Cosy, all being for-profit ventures by folks other than To and Co. All Arms-Length from To and Co., all obvious EZ clones, all mostly great products of their designers and builders. The Open Project will be no different, except for the profit factor beyond the TERF’s. The plans and templates will evolve uniquely as will every bird, if any, created of the effort.

 

It’s understandable how some who committed to build a Cosy, when what they really wanted to build at the time was an unattainable tandem Long, might get annoyed at the Open Project popping up out of nowhere post facto. But their monkey wrenches might better be used building their own Open, or sticking to their Cosy, then trying to build poorly veiled obstacles for others already on the Open path. Me, I plan to do both.

 

Nut shell and last comment from me on this issue: I think the Letter-to is a waste of time and effort, and if its stated goal was sincere, it would be crafted to perfection by competently skilled people and presented for consideration out of the public eye where most serious business is conducted.

If I where going to grant some advice, which I’m not, I’d probably just offer a simple word: “Chill.”

 

And of couse I will wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Build!

 

 

 

[Chairboy]

Wow, and _I'M_ the paranoid one?

 

I have nothing against the OpenEZ, I think it's a fascinating project, and I wish all the builders well. I'm building a Cozy, but I'm looking to buy a LongEZ in the meantime.

 

I'm insulted by your insinuation that I'm somehow trying to hurt the project. I volunteered because I wanted to beef up the moral authority of the effort so that the naysayers wouldn't have traction. What would be more effective than endorsement by Burt? He can't say anything in its current form because of the legal issues, my hope was that getting the LongEZ released under the GFDL would protect him appropriately and help reinvigorate the community. Whether or not you believe it or not, there _IS_ an odd taste about aspects of the project, and the "don't ask in case the answer is no" isn't a really solid way to reassure people before they start a 2000+ hour project.

 

Why did I, a Cozy builder, care about this? Because I like volunteering for projects, especially when it comes to getting stuff released under open licenses. I'm an administrator on Wikipedia, I write software, I got suckered into being the vice prez of my local EAA chapter, it's just something I like doing. I saw a problem and I proposed a way to fix it.

 

Somehow, the mere suggestion has threatened you enough to disregard basic civility and make weird insinuations about some conspiracy to stop the project. I can't imagine how you get from point A to point B, but I hope you reconsider your motivations and be honest with yourself.

[SteveWrightNZ]

don't let it upset you, Ben. Let it go - it's just the Internet. You can't change it.

 

S

[HatSwitch]

Wow, and _I'M_ the paranoid one? . . . I can't imagine how you get from point A to point B,

Come now guys, this isn’t going to get ugly, is it?

This issue is not a mudsling, it’s clearly a simple debate with at least two opposing angles of attack vying for rudder authority. So before anyone lets their feelings get hurt, lets have some fun with it. After all, “it’s just the Internet and you can’t change it”, unless of course you’re an administrator on Wikipoopoo. (s?)

 

A little bed time story to help you feel better.

The storm spooled-up suddenly, cold, black and vicious, like some transparent beast born from the depths of a dark primordial swamp of meddling slime and blistering ooze. Hail and freezing rain assaulted the field in horizontal sheets that seemed to drive inward from every direction at once. Light unloved common brand aircraft, unfortunate enough to be tied down on the ramp, abandoned to the elements by their owners, were mercilessly ripped from their cold beds of concrete and tossed into the lightning clawed air like broken kites. Within a few moments of the onslaught, all that remained of the aircraft outside were mangled piles sheet metal and props packed against the side of the huge hurricane proof hanger that served to provide an interior bastion of warmth and protection for the brand new prized local fleet of Open-EZs and their drivers.

 

Inside, several men suddenly set their hot drinks down and pushed themselves away from a card table sitting between several parked aircraft. Almost in unison they all ran over and pressed themselves up against a row of thick safety glass windows that lined the wall facing the main ramp and runway. All had to wipe heavy condensation away with their sleeves in order to see what was going on outside.

“Did you hear that?” One asked with level concern.

“I did,” answered another as he squinted his eyes against blinding flashes of lightning, “sounded like someone screaming!”

“Yeah!” the first man confirmed, “That’s what I thought, too!”

“Open the door,” a third man shouted, “Quick! I see someone, there’s a guy out there crawling toward the hanger, we have to help him! Hurry!”

In an instant, the side door to the big hangar swung open and two of the men jumped outside into the wicked wet darkness and grabbed the poor guy up by his arms and dragged him inside to safety. They had hardly gotten the soaked and nearly frozen man to his feet when out of nowhere a chair flew past the open door and caught the redeemed man’s weary eye. With a sudden and freighting burst of energy, he sprang like a tiger and vaulted back outside and disappeared. The men inside the hanger looked at each other dumbfounded.

“What the hell was that?” One asked just as the sound loud screaming once again competed with the decibel level generated by the howling wind and rain. “Where the heck did he go?”

“Sounds weird, but I think he ran after that chair that flew by!” Another shouted as he leaned outside again and peered into the darkness. “Let’s get him back in here before he hurts himself! Someone get some hot coffee over here, Quick!”

This time, it took three men to drag the poor guy back inside by one arm as he tenaciously grasped a bent lawn chair in the other hand. Once inside, they quickly closed the door and bolted it.

“Why did you do that?” One of the rescuers asked clearly irritated. “Are you nuts?”

“Do what?” The rescued man replied impishly as he set the chair down with such care one would think he were handling a small and delicate child.

“Do what?” the man now parroted him with the sarcastic brutality of an angry drill sergeant, “Run back out into the storm after that stupid chair? That’s What!”

The rescued man just smiled as he sat down in the wobbly lawn chair and gratefully accepted a hot mug of coffee offered him. "I'm Chairboy!" He answered with a wry grin, "That's what I do!"

[RGlos]

Wow, Hatswitch, good storyteller. But the moral is a little heavy on Chairboy.

 

Chairboy, their is nothing wrong with your idea. Maybe the consensus goes the other way but that is another thing.

 

My bet is that he already has read these posts. Several posters work for him. They are not spys but interested employees & are like us . So mission probably accomplished.

 

I can't believe he is the type of person who would send down a team of lawyers if he objected. He would probably have someone raise his objections

in a civilized manner. After all he is pro-homebuilding deep down.

 

In this case no news is good news.

 

Build your "Chairboy EZ" and make your dream come true.

[Jon Matcho]

Yow... everyone remain calm, and nobody will get hurt.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that this letter was sincerely conceived and put forth. I also know of a few souls who enjoy throwing tomatos at anything to do with the Canard Zone for no reason other than they like the mess left. Ben was definitely not throwing a tomato.

 

The idea was put up for a virtual vote, of sorts, and opinions have been shared with the collective mindset being to leave it alone for now.

 

As far as thinking that Burt is actually reading these posts, or even knows about the Open-EZ drawings, I think he has much more important things to do with his time right now.

 

To all, Merry Fiberglass and Happy New Build!