Phil Kriley Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Phil, You got the answer before I could post it. We are still waiting. Thanks Tom Hi Tom - Thanks for the reply, but what does this mean? When I plunked down my $500 for the plans and money for the Chapter 3 intro kit, ACS chose MGS 335 for me - I didn't know one epoxy from another at that time. I liked the stuff, found it easy to work with, there was no bad smell, and I decided I could build an airplane in my heated basement with it. I've since then spent a lot of money on tools, supplies, workshop, etc. and am at the end of Chapter 6. But I'm down to my last half gallon of epoxy! I have 9 days off between now and the end of the year, and was sure hoping to get a lot of work done on the plane, but because no one can get the epoxy in from Canada it looks like I'll be sitting on my thumbs. You offered that there are other epoxies in stock that we can use - but my shop is set up for MGS 335 and I know that if I switch epoxy I will have to move the project out to the barn, which is not heated nor insulated, and I'm concerned that I may be allergic to another epoxy - as I was when I took the SportAir composites workshop several years ago. Please understand - I made the decision to continue with this project based on the expectation that ACS would be able to provide the materials to get the job done. Switching to a different epoxy system at this time is not a viable option for me. Is there anything that we can do to get this stuff imported and shipped? Is there a Senator or Congressman whose office may be able to provide whatever arm-twisting is needed to get the approval or whatever it is that we are waiting for? Let us know if a letter-writing campaign will help. Is there a reason that you cannot import the stuff directly from Germany so we are not held hostage by Canada? I know I'm far from the only builder who is being frustrated by this 3-month delay with no apparent end in sight. If there is anything we can do to get this resolved, please let us know. I can order the stuff from a supplier in Canada, but Fedex wants almost $200 to ship $125 worth of material, and that's just crazy. Please keep on top of this for us and let us know what we can do. Thanks! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Khu Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Phil, Waiting for MGS availability has been difficult. I am most in need of slow hardeners (287) since there is only 1 quart remaining. IF I happen to run out of MGS and the supply line is still cut off, I would likely work on building jigs and cutting templates. The flying surfaces need templates, the turtleback needs a jig, and then I can begin to cut foam cores for the wings and winglets. Certainly those activities will hold me over until the MGS supply resume after satisfying the bureaucrats. Quote Remi Khu Cozy Mk IV Plan #1336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRKillin Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Hang in there Phil. I, like Remi am working on tasks other than layups. I'm completly out of slow harder. I have 2 quarts of fast with 1.5 gallons of resin remaining. The fast hardener is just to fast without a bit of slow added! Like you, I planned to work 8-9 days over the holiday including layups, but it's not to be. I have pre-cut enough glass to keep me busy in layups from a couple of months once MGS is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Thanks guys! Good suggestions - I had not really thought about doing things out of order, but I can see no harm in working on some of the jigs since they are made from supplies I can get locally. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarracci Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Update on MGS Epoxies Many of our composite builders have been awaiting orders for the MGS epoxies, but we have been unable to obtain stock from our supplier in Canada while they have been trying to get their packaging recertified by the Canadian government. As of December 21, they are telling us that they "hope" to be able to ship within 3 weeks. We are sorry for the delay in shipment of these orders and we will ship all open orders the same day we receive our shipments from the supplier at our California and Georgia warehouses. Aircraft Spruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarracci Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 We have been informed by the supplier of MGS epoxies that they have finally received their packaging recertification from the Canadian government and will be shipping product to Aircraft Spruce West and Aircraft Spruce East the week of January 8. We expect to once again have stock of MGS epoxies for our customers in mid-January. Thanks for your patience during the time we have been unable to obtain product from the Canadian supplier. Aircraft Spruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Thank you for the update! Looking forward to my shipment, as I just ran out last night. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMan Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Hi Talked to ACS they said MGS 285 feb 5 so I said Ok 2 gallons they said Ok 550.00 plus shipping WOW! does that seem right? Ok now my question how many gallons for a "Open Long EZ" Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarracci Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Not sure which parts and/or quantities you were quoted. Here's a screen print from the Aircraft Spruce computer system that shows the different part numbers for MGS products and their prices. PRICE..... PART NBR....... Product description................ $ 120.950 01-41000 L285 MGS EPOXY RESIN 1 GA $ 28.700 01-41005 H285F MGS HARDENER QT FAST $ 31.000 01-41006 H287S MGS HARDENER QT SLOW $ 82.250 01-41100 L335 MGS EPOXY RESIN 1 GA $ 28.500 01-41105 H335F MGS HARDENER QT FAST $ 26.800 01-41106 H340S MGS HARDENER QT SLOW Shipping on the 287 slow hardener is going to be high due to a) haz fees and b) special packing requirements Hope that clarifies any questions. Thanks Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Evansic Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Looking at the current prices on their website, the MGS 285 resin has increased nearly $50 per gallon! I paid $73.74 for a gallon, and now it is listed at $120.95 per gallon. That's a 64% increase in price on the resin, not counting increases in shipping costs! -- Len Quote -- Len Evansic, Cozy Mk. IV Plans #1283 Do you need a Flightline Chair, or other embroidered aviation accessory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zies8 Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Try contacting the manufacturer and then locating vendors from their vendor/ distrugutor list. My 2 cents......................Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMan Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Why can't an American based company formulate an epoxy that's equal to the MGS so that everyone wouldn't be in this situation? When I ordered on line (for two gallons and hardener) they sent an e-mail confirmation say that I had 4 hazardous shipping container charges because of 4 quarts of hardener. Has anyone had this happen with the other epoxies ordered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macleodm3 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Looking at the current prices on their website, the MGS 285 resin has increased nearly $50 per gallon! I paid $73.74 for a gallon, and now it is listed at $120.95 per gallon. That's a 64% increase in price on the resin, not counting increases in shipping costs! Yeah, it is getting expensive. Check out the prices on most of the other systems as well. They've gone up alot. West 105/209 is expensive locally and online. Its all silly expensive isn't it. Quote Andrew Anunson I work underground and I play in the sky... no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Evansic Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Why can't an American based company formulate an epoxy that's equal to the MGS so that everyone wouldn't be in this situation? That's a great question. I looked into this early in 2006, and I found that the problem is knowing what to look for and testing for performance and applicability. The major global epoxy manufacturers are Huntsman, Hexion, and 3M, and all three are producing their products in the US. The problem is that they produce these in huge batches, and supply only in bulk (think barrel to tanker truck) quantities. The formulators are who we deal with, like Gougeon (WEST and Pro-Set) and MGS Bakelite (MGS). The formulators buy in bulk their epoxy bases from the major manufacturers, and then they blend to meet a specific performance target. The formulators test their products extensively, and if applicable, go through the process of getting government certification of their products for certain specified uses. This certification is a tough thing to use as a benchmark, as it depends on the country. MGS is certified for certain aircraft construction in Germany, but any equivalent certification does not exist in the US. Do other epoxies meet the German certification requirements? Probably, but those epoxies weren't submitted for the required German government testing (€€€€). As mentioned, there is no certification body in the US for epoxy performance or applicability. The FAA doesn't care. Now our approved epoxies were historically approved by testing at RAF or by Nat Puffer. In the case of MGS, I believe (but do not know) that the documentation from the german government testing, as well as it's respectable tested performance figures (tensile, peel strength, elongation%) were enough to get Nat's blessing. All of this being said, I haven't found a domestically formulated epoxy that on paper, matches the characteristics of MGS while being friendly to home-builders and composite novices. It's cycloaliphatic hardener base is typically used for items like epoxy-based floor tiles. It's near-oderless qualities are also rare. Other epoxies that have similar strength characteristics, usually have extremely short pot life, and horrible odor issues. If there is a domestically formulated equivalent, it's manufacturer has not pursued the home-builder composite market. As such, we are being pushed into an economic situation which is favoring epoxies like EZ-Poxy and Aeropoxy, as they are both more available, cheaper, and less likely to incur the new hazardous shipping costs. I could be wrong on the shipping costs, but I haven't heard of them dropping off of the market while waiting for resolution of this issue. -- Len Quote -- Len Evansic, Cozy Mk. IV Plans #1283 Do you need a Flightline Chair, or other embroidered aviation accessory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarracci Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Aircraft Spruce and other distributors have been out of stock of MGS resin for some time due to a packaging delay at the source in Canada. This has been resolved and Aircraft Spruce expects to have stock in California and Georgia the first week of February. Unfortunately, the supplier has raised the cost dramatically on the new shipments and the current prices had to be raised as well. We are appealing to the supplier to re-evaluate this new cot and if we are able to reduce the cost, the price to the homebuilder will be reduce immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obxtoo Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Just a possible source of epoxies, http://www.indform.com/ I used their products before when building a sailboat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ AHAB Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 For what it's worth, I just ordered and received MGS L335 and both hardeners from Wicks with no problems. They were a little cheaper than ACS, at least in this area, and their customer service is always excellent. Quote EUREKA CNC Extreme Precision CNC Hotwire Cutting http://www.eurekacnc.com Perfection To The Core! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnbraud Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 For what it's worth, I just ordered and received MGS L335 and both hardeners from Wicks with no problems. They were a little cheaper than ACS, at least in this area, and their customer service is always excellent. Just curious, what wer the shipping/hazardous charges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ AHAB Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 There was a $5 fee for 2 hazmat boxes and the shipping was $38.12. This was for 2 gal of resin and 4 quarts of hardener. Quote EUREKA CNC Extreme Precision CNC Hotwire Cutting http://www.eurekacnc.com Perfection To The Core! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnbraud Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 There was a $5 fee for 2 hazmat boxes and the shipping was $38.12. This was for 2 gal of resin and 4 quarts of hardener. Thanks for the info. I think Wicks includes the $20 HazMat fee in the shipping charge. Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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