Defiant Plans and Info

[altruistic]

searching for absolutely anything i can find about defiants, would like an original plans set but i acknowledge this may be a pipedream. Im stoked about the open ez project and quite frankly it should have happened years ago. When you by plans for an aircraft it should come on both cd and paper, with the cd a fully redundant replacement. I am hoping someone might come up with the open defiant and if someone will send me some info im prepared to do all the work. Im not flying blind i am an AME = A&P and have the backup of some highly experienced aero engineers and composite airframers. I come from Australia and we have large puddles and large expanses of nothing, I know i will be riduculed but two engines especially in a canard is compulsory. I know there are 2 guys in NSW with a defiant and am looking for their contact details.

[Jon Matcho]

Join the Yahoo Defiant group, introduce yourself as you have here, and ask about getting plans. There is someone who will make you copies for $800 (last I checked). For whatever reason, nobody complains over there.

 

This was a motivation for the Open-EZ project. If I had $800 burning a hole in my pocket I'd create an Open-Defiant project.

[Spodman]

The Oz register is online at http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/register/datafiles.asp

 

I won't reproduce the contents here, but note entries for two Defiants, DFY & OOI. They may not be flying (or even built) yet, but the contact details are there.

[altruistic]

thanks people i cant get over how helpful everybody is.

[Flyer Tuck]

searching for absolutely anything i can find about defiants.

I don't know anything about this plane, but thought you might at least want to look.

 

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_59723_Defiant+Push+Pull+Twin.html

[altruistic]

if it was still flying id be there in a flash, its kinda heartbreaking to see that actually. I wonder what would be involved in crating it.?

[Nathan Gifford]

Its been in Barnstormers for a while. I wonder why it hasn't sold...

[Flyer Tuck]

I think it's simply a very limited market...

 

The plane looks pretty "rough" and I believe most people thinking about a Defiant would want to "make it right".

 

Very limited market, people willing to put in that amount of time...

 

But ditching those GPU engines and putting on a couple of 13B Turbo Rotary would be sweet for high cross country travel with little worry of high density altitude airports...

 

Rick

[altruistic]

that very thought has been rattling in my brain like a stone in a tin can for the last five years perhaps a 20 b up the back just for good measure, i wonder how bad it would move the cg.

[Flyer Tuck]

that very thought has been rattling in my brain like a stone in a tin can for the last five years perhaps a 20 b up the back just for good measure, i wonder how bad it would move the cg.

I'm a firm believer in symmetry in designs. Don’t make 2 things that perform the same function different unless there is a significant advantage in doing so.

 

I’d put the same engine front and back. Make everything else that can be exactly the same. Mount, baffling, etc. would have to be unique, but everything else I’d make the same…

 

Less issues with spare parts, learning curve…

 

A Renesis 13B can give you almost 240HP at 8200 RPM. With a 2.85/1 reduction drive, thats 2877 RPM at the prop. The RD-1C from Rotary Aviation is rated at 300HP, so you could add a little boost and not break the redrive! I don't think the 20B would be required for most people!

 

Just my opinion…

[Jon Matcho]

Flyer, great advice on symmetry -- like a page out of Rutan's design book.

 

Back to the Defiant plans. I checked the discussion on the Yahoo! DEFIANT FLYERS group and found this post from 8/17:

 

Defiant Plans Hunter,

I have a complete set of plans which is a copy of my original set and is a duplicate of the plans that I used to build my Defiant. The price is $945.00US plus shipping. With the plans there is a set of additional information that is a part of the plans. Let me know your interest and desired shipping method. I must weigh the set to be shipped for determining shipping cost.

 

Best regards,

Robert G. Baker, Sr.

So there you have it: $945 plus shipping. This fellow has become the "go to" person for getting Defiant plans these days.

[Andrew Winkworth]

As for VH-OOI, I believe that it was built by the late Clive Canning and it is based at Caloundra. I took some photos of it a number of years ago.

The NSW based Defiant is being built be Jock and Ian Anderson.

http://wedderburnairstrip.com.au/aircraftprojects_files/AircraftProjects.htm

 

As your based in Brisbane, a short trip up the coast might be in order!!

 

 

[wolf.]

Hi Jon I don't have 800$ to waste either, but we could put some money together and then create the open defiant, I would give 2-300$, if someone else joins in we could get our open defiant (which I still think would be the experimental dream craft)

 

wolf.

[Jon Matcho]

Wolf,

 

A project is actually underway to produce an 'Open-EZ Twin' CD, containing PDFs that you can take to a print shop for accurate reproduction. It's still finding its legs, but the full plans set WILL be scanned and made available later this month to all "charter members" of the club. The CD will include:

• Plans sections A-E
• Engine installation section F
• The "blue booklet" (sorry, forgot what's in here)
• All Defiant Plans Correction newletters

Feel free to donate whatever you're comfortable with (ONLY TO COVER SCANNING COSTS -- I AM DONATING MY TIME). Most have donated $25 and is why the project has been under wraps and development for months now. Regardless, a release WILL happen this month.

 

You may send your donation to:

 

Jon Matcho

1202 Geiger Ln

Bridgewater, NJ 08807

 

or PayPal to jmatcho@hotmail.com

[Big Steve]

I have a copy of the Defiant owners manual if you are interested. STeve

[Bruce]

A project is actually underway to produce an 'Open-EZ Twin' CD, containing PDFs that you can take to a print shop for accurate reproduction. It's still finding its legs, but the full plans set WILL be scanned and made available later this month to all "charter members" of the club. The CD will include:

• Plans sections A-E
• Engine installation section F
• The "blue booklet" (sorry, forgot what's in here)
• All Defiant Plans Correction newletters

...a release WILL happen this month.

Hey Jon,

 

Do you know if anyone is doing that or something similar for the "single" engine OpenEZ?

 

Bruce

[wolf.]

Jon that sounds great, I will sign up and send you a donation today. btw would the defiant allow to use 120hp engines if they are 150lbs lighter than lycoming. (i am thinking rotax or jabiru) In a nutshell would 300lbs less empty weight allow 40hp less per engine?? European Fuell prices for AVGAS are up to 10$/ga, MOGAS still woud be 6.5$/ga, so MOGAS eating low consumption engines are kind of atractive.

 

wolf.

[Jon Matcho]

I have a copy of the Defiant owners manual if you are interested.

I wonder if that's what the 'blue book' is. I'll have to check, otherwise "yes" I'm definitely interested. I'll get back to you.

 

Do you know if anyone is doing that or something similar for the "single" engine OpenEZ?

The TERF CD is mainly about that. The same could be done for an Open-EZ CD, but would only contain the scanned & verifiable drawings. Is that what you mean? If so, then "yes", that should be done as certain people have spent money to make that happen (for whatever reason motivated them).

 

btw would the defiant allow to use 120hp engines if they are 150lbs lighter than lycoming. (i am thinking rotax or jabiru) In a nutshell would 300lbs less empty weight allow 40hp less per engine??

You're asking the wrong person, but I would guess that *might* work. By "Lycoming", do you mean O-320 engines? I THINK that's what is specified for the Defiant. Build everything light, do a weight and balance, and you just might be able to get that to work. I'd hate to do all that work and find out otherwise though.

[wolf.]

Anyone out there who has more aerospace background than I have (I am PhD Chemist) and can answer my question if it would be feasible to use 115-120 hp engines on the defiant if they are 150lbs lighter than O-320, I also would accept reducing the MTOW (my whole family is on the light side (my wife and me get 288lbs combined and the kids are still small))

 

wolf.

[Waiter]

I think a Defiant that uses 115hp engines would be horribly underpowered.

 

If you are concerned about fuel burn, simply reduce the throttle setting after takeoff.

 

To get a feel for what a Defiant would be like with these smaller angines, try this:

 

Next time you go fly, when you are on the runway and getting ready to take off, instead of applying full throttle, (2700 rpm or 27 inmp) try this, 2200 rpm or 22 inches MP. This would be approximately 1/2 to 2/3 rated power.

 

Waiter

[wolf.]

I have an O-290 in my Long and the prop turns 2350RPM at full throttle, instead of the 2800RPM of the engine. The whole thing had to be done to get a German Noise certificate (had to be under 70dB) to be allowed to fly. So (don't know the MAP) but technically I fly at 83% of my engine power.

Ok but that is anyway not the point. Throttling back with my Lycoming on takeoff does not reduce my engine weight. So to compare apples with apples lets take the O-290 (135hp, 120KG) of my Long install a rotax 912 (100hp, 64kg) will I get the same performance, how far can light weight compensate for less hp???

 

wolf.

[Waiter]

2350RPM at full throttle

Is that static, or cruise?

 

You can easly simulate the engine weight difference performing a takeoff with reduced power and say 10 gallons of fuel.

 

Then add 30 gallons of fuel (180 lbs) and repeat a takeoff with full power.

 

On my EZ, I see a difference in performance that 150 lbs makes. I also have first hand experience with the differnec between 125hp and 160 hp LongEZs.

 

I don't think you could reduce the weight of the Defiant enough to make a 115 hp engine a workable solution.

 

ALSO; Given the nature of the German FAA, would they allow you to substitute the engine?

 

I come back to the question on why are you doing this? If the reason is to reduced fuel consumption, then simply reduce the throttle.

 

An O-360 putting out 100hp will have almost exactly the same fuel consumption as an O-200 putting out 100 hp.

 

Waiter

[Hans S]

Is the open-ez twin still going on? Will the CDs have all the plans to build a Defiant? I'm interested, but still trying to decide between cozy IV or Defiant.

[Jon Matcho]

Hans, yes! Thanks for your patience.

[wolf.]

Hi Jon any news on your open-ez twin any way we can help?

 

wolf.