Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Stdavis

Center Stick on a Cozy

Recommended Posts

How hard would it be to put a single control stick in the center consol instead of one on each side? What other systems will be affected? I would like to fly with my right hand on the stick, and left hand on the control. I know I could just fly from the right seat, but my ego is to big for that.... :rolleyes: Thanks, Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stdavis said:

How hard would it be to put a single control stick in the center consol instead of one on each side? What other systems will be affected? I would like to fly with my right hand on the stick, and left hand on the control. I know I could just fly from the right seat, but my ego is to big for that.... :rolleyes: Thanks, Steve

Greetings STD!

Doing that may not be too much of a problem. Increase the size of the center console, add bushing blocks as the sides, bring the tubing through the firewall and connect.

The problems here are that the central console now needs to be wider and taller.. Yes you can make the arm rest smaller on the pilots side, but that would orentate him closer to the side and give little room to rest his/her free arm, and the glutius maximus spread area is small enough in these craft. You sit in the seat rather than on it.

A bigger problem is controling the stick in various situations. With a stick in the middle of your legs, access to it is pretty easy by both hands. With the stick in the center console, flying with the right hand is a cinch, however when you need to change radio freqs, adjust the DG for precession, change fuel tanks, or write down clearances, you must grab the stick cross chest with your left hand. Canard planes are, by nature very sensitive in a pitch axis and must be flown with very small stick movements. One of the best ways to do this is to rest your forearm on a cusheon, using only the small muscles of your forearm to control the stick. When you reach over with your left hand to control the craft, you loose the opportunity to finely control the craft and have potential oscillitatory challenges with pitch (remember John Denver). Additionally, when your left arm is across your chest, wrist bent to approximate the control stick, there is little room for the right hand to write on something which also has little room to sit in a somewhat horizontal position. Aalso where you going to put the engine controls so that they are accessable to both sides (if that is important to you).

Methinks it's a bad Idea. Get thee to a stickery!!

In Spam cans with control wheels, most of IFR flying is done with left hands to keep the right free.

An indication of this is that the cirrus, & columbia both use outside side sticks, as well as airbus and many military planes.

Additionally, if you use a side opening canopy, the central stick is in a great position for possible damage, as well as being in a position for damaging a passenger at ingress of egress. :scared:

But it can be done!! Think carefully about this change. Had central stick in my dragonfly. The one main change that I would have made is to relocate it to the left side. It would have made flying much more enjoyable.

I don't mean to imply that the plans as drawn are faultless-- far from it, but before you change something, try to think of all of the possible reasons that the design is as it is, and what the concequences will be if changed. "What if "is a great game to play and may save you much grief.

That being said, if you want a central stick, stick it where you want to. It's your baby!!

My $1.52

Rich


I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, I guess I haven't thought it all out. This forum is a great asset for making one think. I do have to write things down while flying, change freq. (Alot) and fold maps. The left and stick doesn't seem as bad as I first thought, Thanks, Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stdavis said:

Thanks for the info, I guess I haven't thought it all out. This forum is a great asset for making one think. I do have to write things down while flying, change freq. (Alot) and fold maps. The left and stick doesn't seem as bad as I first thought, Thanks, Steve

Of course if your are left handed------ in the words of the immortal Rosana Rosanadana, "Never Mind!" :P


I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wrote this without reading Rich's post...

Stdavis said:

How hard would it be to put a single control stick in the center consol instead of one on each side?

It would take some thinking, but wouldn't be that hard.

Quote

What other systems will be affected?

Fuel, heat, control rod to the ailerons down the middle to the rear, and push rod to the elevator now through the middle (which may/will need you to adjust a few things forward of the instrument panel).

Quote

I would like to fly with my right hand on the stick, and left hand on the control.

I asked about this on the COZY mail list, and even had some feedback w/Nat on this. There's really no reason why it can't be done, and Nat's primary reason for doing it this way was because he felt it was the better option. I thought hard about it, and in the end, at least right now, I'm leaning more towards keeping things to plans. We'll see what happens when I get nearer. I have a unique situation -- I write with my left hand, but that's about the only left-handed thing I do. I too would want to fly by default w/my right, but after using my mouse in my left hand now and again, you can see how much of a problem this is really NOT.

I just read Rich's post -- he's right too.


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had this rattling in my head the past several months, leaning towards implementing it again, and now leaning towards the per-plans design.

Options for people that want to fly with their right hands are:

  • Reach across w/your right hand to control stick while you write
  • Learn to write (scribble legibly) w/your right hand
  • Sit in the right seat
  • Invest in an autopilot

I still don't think the mod would be that difficult in terms of a design challenge, but I do realize it would add a substantial amount of time for what may prove to be minor incremental value. Considering the standard workaround (become ambidextrous), I am once again realizing that I will be keeping to plans here.


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd have to look at my drawings, but the bigger concern about a center stick is not the width of the armrest. It can be widened to accommodate the plus, minus 20 degees of swing. It's the push-tube to the canard. It would go right through, or be very close to going through the nose wheel well that is one inch forward of the instrument panel.


Wayne Hicks

Cozy IV Plans #678

http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, and I was thinking to have the center pushrod NOT go directly to the canard, but instead connect to two torque tubes located on both sides of the floor, which would mate-up with the per-plans pushrods on the sides.

See it? It would be a challenging apparatus to make, but one that could be done simply. What do you think?


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

Here are a few other considerations to making such a "radical" design change:

1) Virtually all pilots fly with their left hand and manipulate controls with their right. Millions of right handed people have learned to fly this way with no problems.

2) If you choose to fly your plane reverse handed you will have a hell of a time trying to fly any other airplane.

3) When the day comes, you'll have a very hard time selling your plane either as a finished plane or uncompleted project. It's just so non-standard.

4) Such a major change, while doable, will add a lot of time to your construction and lower your odds of ever finishing.

Now, having said all that - go for it if you want to. It's your plane, your project, and if it is what you want to do, more power to you. I just wanted to add some food for thought.

Enjoy


Rick Maddy

Denver, CO

Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 18

http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stdavis said:

How hard would it be to put a single control stick in the center consol instead of one on each side? What other systems will be affected? I would like to fly with my right hand on the stick, and left hand on the control. I know I could just fly from the right seat, but my ego is to big for that.... :rolleyes: Thanks, Steve

If you put in a center stick, you'll also probably put the throttles on the left side and your copilot will be lose access to the throttles (unless you're going to put a second set on the right).

My Cozy is set up for right seat pilot now--I fly it from the right side. If I was doing it again, I would just build the standard configuration. I have flown from both sides for 40 years and the transition is not a problem but there is little to be gained by flying from the right seat, or flying with the right hand. If you are a righty, it makes it hard to copy clearances and if you fly the Cozy from the right side it's a bit harder see the R/W in left-hand patterns.

I don't like the Velocity stick because it seems to sit higher than the Cozy sticks. That might be to clear the nose gear box as Wayne suggests. Bottom line: I would build per plans.

-Kent

Cozy IV N13AM


-Kent
Cozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a note. My E Racer is a center stick. It took me a while to get used to flying right handed. You drive a car left handed, you train in a certified AC left handed, throttle right handed, write, right handed, of course there are exceptions to that, but I am a right handed person. I am just glad I have an auto pilot because I cannot write left handed. I am very used to the center stick but really think the cozy setup is superior for the average pilot.

Jack

E Racer113

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent many hours/years flying my Longez with the right hand (I'm a righty). I sold my Longez, bought a Cozy---got checked out in the right seat. No problem, pretty much lands like a Longez. Then I got in the left seat. Well...lets just say it took me about 10 flights or so to make what I would consider good landings. It really is no big deal to switch---but it was not instantaneous.

I guess in the end, that I prefer to have a pen in my writing hand and the stick in the other. I would not change the setup of the Cozy. But I would also not change the stick on the Longez either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for the good input. I'm locked into the per-plans design, again. :o


Jon Matcho :busy:
Canard Zone Member & Administrator
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Long-term:  Building a Cozy Mark IV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Matcho said:

Thanks everyone for the good input. I'm locked into the per-plans design, again. :o

Which is not a bad place to be. Speaking from personal experience, I feel these types of modifications are for the ones building their 2nd plane. We 1st-time builders, for the most part, have very little idea as to the ramifications/repercussions (sp?) of such mods.

My "unsolicited" advice?: If you are interested in modifications, stick to the ones already done by someone else.... successfully. You'll get into the air MUCH sooner.

This opinion has come from personal experience. YMMV.

  • Like 1

"I run with scissors."

Cozy MKIV N85TT

Phase One Testing

http://home.earthlink.net/~jerskip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

The Canard Zone

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information