Roncz canard on a VE

[SpaceShipOne]

Would a Roncz canard on a VE be a possible modification?

 

My dad gave me a VE set of plans and I was just wondering if that mods could be made on the plane!

[Jon Matcho]

Would a Roncz canard on a VE be a possible modification?

Possibly, but check this out -- announced by RAF when the Roncz canard was introduced to replace the GU canard on the Long-EZ: http://ez.org/cp43-p1.htm Apparently there's very little need for the Roncz canard on the VariEze.

 

My dad gave me a VE set of plans and I was just wondering if that mods could be made on the plane!

If you're set on building a tandem, I would highly recommend getting plans for a Long-EZ. They are available for those who try hard enough to find them.

[EracerFL]

Found this old email where a guy put a Roncz canard on a VE.

 

"To the best of my knowledge RAF never approved the R1145MS Canard on the VE because it was never tested as was the LE. My VE with the GU Canard exibited a high nose down pitch tendancy in rain that took lots of stick pressure to hold level, estimate 30 pounds. The lift is higher on the Roncz which could lead to wing stall so the solution is to reduce the lift by decreasing area through span. I retro fitted a 118 inch Roncz to my VE 5 years ago and it changed the whole personality of the airplane for the better. No pitch change in rain, less pitch sensitivity, convergent stick free pitch stability, 4 Kts more speed and a more stable feel in pitch axis, overall a very worth while improvement.

 

Nigel Field Subaru Vari-Eze (Suze)"

[lfrers]

Can you

A) Buy one already made? Or have contact to people who can fab. one for me?

B) Mod the Standard canard to Roncz

???

[lfrers]

does anyone ever participate in these forums ???

[Jon Matcho]

Yes, they do.

[Marc Zeitlin]

does anyone ever participate in these forums ???

Sure. But you asked a question for which actual knowledge, rather than newbie-like speculation and mere enthusiasm for changes, would be useful. While there are SOME extremely knowledgable folks here, they're few and far between. Same goes for the other canard specific web based forum, although they get a lot more traffic than this forum does (but the signal to noise ratio is even lower).

 

You'd be far better off asking your question regarding canard aircraft on the canard-aviators mailing list at groups.yahoo.com, if you're really serious about canards.

 

That being said:

 

Can you

A) Buy one already made?

Not like out of a catalog, no.

 

Or have contact to people who can fab. one for me?

yes.

 

B) Mod the Standard canard to Roncz???

no.

[Jon Matcho]

Sure. But you asked a question for which actual knowledge, rather than newbie-like speculation and mere enthusiasm for changes, would be useful.

Oh Marc... glad to have you pick up the ball and slobber your wit all over the place while doing it.

[lfrers]

Yes, they do.

Everyone loves people with a sense of humer like yours.

[lfrers]

Sure. But you asked a question for which actual knowledge, rather than newbie-like speculation and mere enthusiasm for changes, would be useful. While there are SOME extremely knowledgable folks here, they're few and far between. Same goes for the other canard specific web based forum, although they get a lot more traffic than this forum does (but the signal to noise ratio is even lower).

 

You'd be far better off asking your question regarding canard aircraft on the canard-aviators mailing list at groups.yahoo.com, if you're really serious about canards.

 

That being said:

 

Not like out of a catalog, no.

 

yes.

 

no.

Well I posted on the thread a month ago. Seemed like an easy question to me. Anyway I just looked around more and realized that there was little activity on this forum.

Thanks for the replies Marc. I will try the canard-aviators mailing list.

 

I have had my VEZ for just over a year. It’s been a fun plane. Longest flight was exactly half way across the country from Kansas City to San Diego. That being said I did not know about the rain issue until just a few months ago. I’m glad I did not have to find out the hard way on the way home on my first flight in an EZ.

 

I just plan on keeping the plane and flying a bit more often. Will be doing some light IFR.

The plane is in for an annual overhaul. Putting in Plugs, wires, EGT probe, Oil Temp Probe, 2nd RPM sensor for the digital tach (only read one magnito), new Atkins gauges (my old ones began to leak), Switches on the panel were replaced for the (strobes, radio, and nave lights), new outside temp gauge, a new composite prop from Craig Catto, and a bunch of other stuff I’m sure I forgot to mention. I wanted to get a new canard in the works so I would be OK if I ran into any rain.

[Jon Matcho]

Everyone loves people with a sense of humer like yours.

You asked a question, and I answered it. If you were attempting to ruffle some feathers just so that you could get an answer, which I think was your real intention, then you'd be better off (here, or anywhere else) by "bumping" the thread with friendlier text. However, it's entirely up to you how you want to come across on this faceless form of communication.

 

As far as your original questions go, "yes", they were easy and they weren't purposely ignored. Maybe some couldn't have answered them, but many others that visit here certainly have the knowledge to do so. Perhaps next time try giving additional background.

 

The one person I know who builds wings and canards professionally is Dennis Oelmann -- you can try him at (319) 277-5996.

 

That being said I did not know about the rain issue until just a few months ago. I’m glad I did not have to find out the hard way on the way home on my first flight in an EZ.

While I'm only a lowly "newbie", this raises some concerns...

• Have you heard of the Canard Pusher newsletters? They should be required reading for ANYONE building, buying, or flying a canard. The "rain issue" is discussed in a few issues. You can find these newsletters online, or order as faithful reproductions from www.terf.com
• Join the Central States Association (www.canardzone.com/csa), which is now the definitive newsletter canard enthusiasts of all types.
• Join the Canard Aviators mailing list on Yahoo! groups, introduce yourself (!), and ask the same questions there. As Marc said, you'll get lots of responses.

Enjoy your airplane and fly safe.

[Jon Matcho]

Also, you can find out about putting small vortilons on your GU canard so that the "rain issue" becomes a non-issue.

[lfrers]

Also, you can find out about putting small vortilons on your GU canard so that the "rain issue" becomes a non-issue.

Vortilons...Even a better idea. I will research it.

Thanks for the info & links. I did a lot of reading before buying. I even went to San Diego to meet and speak with Dan Patch.

Dan was a great guy. After talking to him and another canard owner he shared his hangar with I was sold.

David Orr helped me find the plane and the rest is history. Flying is in my blood. Dad was a crazy crop duster pilot and

taught aviation at Mesa College In S.D. I'm a member of the Canard Club in San Diego but just have so little time to go to meets,

read new letters, and such. 10 hour mandatory work day. ;(

Thanks again.

Lloyd

[Drew Swenson]

I think Jon said vortilons but meant vortex generators. Vortilons are the leading edge thingies that stick out of the main wing (three per wing for the long and Cozy). Vortex generators are the very small triangle looking things that go on the canard that keep the flow attached (there are about 50 to 100 VGs that go on the canard). They work great-----and tame the canard very nicely.

 

EZ guys have also been using VGs prior to the naca inlet----and in places around the cowl where some of the flow is detaching.

 

You can also see VGs on commercial airliners---usually on top of the wing---or somewhere around the tail. Lots of VGs are usually making up for some aerodynamic problem somewhere----more VGs---more problem. Take a look at the Beech 1900 or the back end of the B-1.

[lfrers]

Thanks drew. BTW I think I read on EZ.Org the story where guys were studying the airflow by taping pieces of yarn on the wing. I think they were trying to improve aileron response. Anyway I also read that the same guys were fabricating their own VGs. Do you have any info on placement? I see it above the lead edge. But when I look at diffrent applications I see them at odd angles. I will do some research and see what I can scratch up. Ideally I would like to do this mod before the plane leaves the garage for the airport. So much easier doing work on it here in the garage. I'm thinking of going with these. http://www.mywebco.com/cci/

[Jon Matcho]

I think Jon said vortilons but meant vortex generators.

Whoops -- thanks for clearing that up!

[Drew Swenson]

Ifrers,

I used the VGs at the website you mentioned. They are inexpensive and come with good instructions including a template of how to place them (for the canard).

 

They are pretty easy to put on----and does not take too much time. My suggestion is to NOT use the expensive glue that they recommend (good shear but terrible tension-----this means they will stand up in flight real good but won't withstand kids (and some adults) from pulling them off at airshows). I would use clear silicone----works real good.

[lfrers]

Great! Thanks for the info. I will order those today. But I was wondering.... Should I add some to the mains as well? if so, how many should I order? 50 or 100? I will use silicone, goog idea. Looks like I have one last project to do while I wait for my prop. I just finished glassing in the new fuel sight guages. The fuel level will be easier to see with the little bubble floating around in there

[Drew Swenson]

From what I remember, you tell them it is for a Longez and they know how many to sell you---and they put some spares in the package.

 

There are a couple of people who put them on the main wing for some record breaking high altitude stuff. I don't recommend it unless you really know what you are doing.

 

There is a bad thing about VGs. While they tame your canard----and fix some local flow problems, your plane becomes a little bit more difficult to wash.

[lfrers]

Well I emailed them several times with no reply. I dont think I will be mailing them a check. Anyone know another supplier for a similar kit?

 

Also anyone here buy a prop from Craig Catto? He went quiet on me as well. I sent a $400 to start my prop around the end of june. The prop is suposed to be done next week and still no work from him. I was wondering if anyone has had a similar expierience when dealing with him. If its normal i'll just keep waiting.

[Wayne Hicks]

There is a bad thing about VGs.

 

------> VGs deter people from sitting on your canard wing.

[bferrell]

Well I emailed them several times with no reply. I dont think I will be mailing them a check. Anyone know another supplier for a similar kit?

 

Also anyone here buy a prop from Craig Catto? He went quiet on me as well. I sent a $400 to start my prop around the end of june. The prop is suposed to be done next week and still no work from him. I was wondering if anyone has had a similar expierience when dealing with him. If its normal i'll just keep waiting.

Yes, I have a Catto prop, and I love it, he does great work, but it takes A LONG TIME to get your prop. The more you need it, and the more you call to let him know when you need it, the sooner you will get it. I wish it weren't that way, but he is sooo busy that's the deal. Stick with it, you'll be pleased.

 

Brett

[Jack Morrison]

I agree with Brett about the prop. I have two Catto props and am very pleased. Craig Catto is a first class guy and the wait is worth the end result.

 

Jack

E Racer 113

[Wayne Hicks]

Gee, I paid the full price up front and got my Catto prop in 6 weeks.

[bferrell]

Gee, I paid the full price up front and got my Catto prop in 6 weeks.

Wow! I ordered my prop on 7/1/2004 for December delivery, it was then promised to me in March 2005, June 2005, and August. and finally recieved it in September. Some of that was from him being really busy, some due to his daughter's accident, but it seemed like a lifetime...

 

Brett