Steve Innova Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Ok... What are people's thoughts on buying the chapter kits in from AC Spruce vs. getting bulk supplies? Will I save money in the long run buy buying in bulk? Also, do I really need to buy the wood from AC Spruce or can I just get that at Home Depot? I'd prefer to minimize shipping costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Innova Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 I just did the math on the price difference between the AC Spruce Section 1 & 2 kits vs. the individual chapter kits. It would appear that the Section 1&2 kits cost $8,769.30, while the chapter kits cost $11,821. This is a $3,000 difference. What do I get buy buying the chapter kits that I don't get from buying in bulk? Modifications: I understand most people are buying metal parts from Brock. Are these parts NOT INCLUDED in the chapter kits, or will I buy extras if I buy them from AC Spruce & Brock? Also, I would like to purchase the retractable gear kit from Infinity. If I buy the AC kits, will I end up with extra (original fixed gear) stuff that I can't use? Finally, is Epoxy included? Sorry for so many questions. I'm determined to do it right from the beginning and I'd rather avoid common mistakes that the rest of you guys have figured out from your experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplafleur Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Epoxy is not included. There are many different epoxy systems available. It is left to you to choose the one you want to work with. If you want retracts, like me, then order the kits without the items needed for the landing gear. You can always say "I'd like chapter x without items a and b" Quote Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155N68ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 When you order by chapter, check out what you get to the items listed in the plans, with newsletter changes, they sometimes leave out items and there are a few parts you think you get that you have to get from a diferent supplier. We have not had huge problems, just a few inconvient surprises from time to time enjoy the build dust Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmaddy Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Ok... What are people's thoughts on buying the chapter kits in from AC Spruce vs. getting bulk supplies? You should save on shipping by buying in bulk but you need more space to store it all. Plus, consider using Wicks. Also, do I really need to buy the wood from AC Spruce or can I just get that at Home Depot? I'd prefer to minimize shipping costs. DO NOT use ANYTHING from Home Depot for your airplane except for jigs. The proper wood for your airplane is vastly superior to anything you can buy at a hardware store. Materials for the aircraft are not a place to go cheap. NEVER replace an appropriate aircraft part with a cheap alternative such as hardware bolts. This is a $3,000 difference. What do I get buy buying the chapter kits that I don't get from buying in bulk? Good question? Check with AC Spruce on that one. This is what I like about Wicks - they itemize all the chapter and section parts so you know what you're getting. This is a $3,000 difference. What do I get buy buying the chapter kits that I don't get from buying in bulk? All Brock parts are sold separately. Neither Wicks nor ACS sell the Brock parts. You also need to order the main and nose struts and canopy separately too. Finally, is Epoxy included? No. Choose the system you like. Most newer (last 4 - 5 years) seems to be using MGS. Poke around here, there has been many discussions on this topic. Also, I would like to purchase the retractable gear kit from Infinity. If I buy the AC kits, will I end up with extra (original fixed gear) stuff that I can't use? Good luck. I know of a few people waiting over a year for their retracts. The use of main retracts is a religious discussion I won't get into. If you go that route, there are some Brock parts you won't need for chapter 9 and of course you won't need the main strut from Featherlite. You may also want to join the Cozy Builders mailing list. Go to http://www.cozybuilders.org. There is a searchable archive at http://www.maddyhome.com/cozysrch. Welcome to the wonderful world of Cozy building. Quote Rick Maddy Denver, CO Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 18 http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 No, the Brock parts are not included in the chapter lists from either Spruce or Wicks. I've heard that Spruce cut the fiberglass cloth for each chapter rather than adding it up and supplying the total on a roll. They may have fixed this now, but you might find it inconvienient if they do that to you. As Dust says, check the lists item by item. You need to learn what everything is anyway. The sooner you do, the easier ordering (and building) will be. As for basic stuff like screws, nuts, bolts, nutplates, washers, etc. I'd recommend getting these up front for the entire built, and adding say 20% for wastage / additional usage to quantities listed. It's soooo annoying to screw up a nutplate and find you don't have a spare because they sent you the exact amount. Later you'll use lots of these items that aren't in the plans. When you get all the nuts & bolts I'd suggest sorting them all into one of those plastic sliding drawer things and labelling the drawers: #3 nuts, #3 washers, #3 bolts, #4..... you get the idea. Before placing a large complex order with ANY supplier, I'd recommend trying a small complex order with each competitor (in this case Wicks and Spruce) and seeing what kind of service you get. Ask a few dumb questions - we all had some at that stage - and see whether you get meaningful answers. When you're small order arrives, see how well it's packaged, and see what response you get when you find you have something incorrect, or ordered wrongly. When ordering, always confirm that the items are in stock (at the store you're talking to) and available for shipment. Spruce will occasionally be out of stock in one location and ship from the other, and then charge you for the extra shipping cost. You going to be spending lots of $ with you're supplier of choice. Make sure you get the best one. Most prices seem to very close with Wicks being marginally higher. Price is important, but I've been willing to pay a slight premium to help smooth things out and make life easier. But that's just me. Occasionally you'll find significant price differences between suppliers on certain items. Oh. By the way, you'll need one of those smart level thingys, and (at least) a dremel fairly early on. I've heard wonderful things about the Finn Sander (sp), but I've never seen one. Have fun. One day to inspection.... and the #$%@@#$ engine won't start.... Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spodman Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Fein sanding tool Then look for the SELECT package (for the HSS blade). I had a bash with one trimming a main landing gear bulkhead in my one days play on a Cozy project (thanks again Andrew) and it worked brilliantly, and very safely. Still plenty of dust but. If you have ever had a broken limb its the thing that looks like an angle grinder the Doctor cut off the plaster with. You can run your fingers across the blade and still wave bye-bye to the foreman. I've seen many references to "smart level" but can anybody tell me what it looks like? Quote Mark Spedding - SpodmanDarraweit Guim - AustraliaCozy IV #1331 - Chapter 09www.mykitlog.com/Spodmanwww.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplafleur Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Here's a couple of Smart levels: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3805679750&category=55806 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3806743588&category=26204 Quote Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155N68ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Does anyone know why the Wicks cost for their Chapter 8 kit is about double that from the ACS Chapter 8 kit? I'm going from the latest book-sized catalogs. Also, do NOT take this as favoring one or the other. In fact, some Wicks chapter costs are less than their ACS counterparts, and vice versa. I just want to know whether Wicks supplies a gold-plated seatbelt in their Chapter 8 kit, or what? Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I wouldn't buy the seat belts until you need them, they will just get dirty in the shop until then enjoy the build Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleturtle Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 uh... hmmm... maybe the obvious answer would be don't keep them in the shop. Quote This ain't rocket surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 want to know whether Wicks supplies a gold-plated seatbelt in their Chapter 8 kit No, but it IS chrome plated. I have the Wicks ones in front and the Spruce ones in back. The Spruce ones have plastic covered buckles. The Wicks ones are definately nicer, but at almost twice the price, probably not worth the difference. As someone said, there's really no need to buy the belts till MUCH MUCH later. Save the cash flow for epoxy. Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Clifford Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 There are several auto racing seat belt distributors that sell on E-Bay at dramatically discounted prices. Good color selections also. I'll get mine there,,,,,soon I hope! Quote Dave Clifford "The Metal Man" Musketeer Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!! Cozy MKIV Plans #656 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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