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Marc Zeitlin

Altitude and Speed in COZY aircraft

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Are there any articles about Mr Price's (Waiter) world record setting flights?

 

(and please point me towards these :) )


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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Google;

 

jim price longez altitude record

 

 

Came up with a few hits.

 

I seem to recall a good article with a lot of detail in one of the news letters mny years ago!!

 

Waiter


F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Thanks Waiter,

 

I left out the LongEze in the search ...

 

regards!


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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No luck on the searching thing ... lots of nice articles etc, but nothing on the actual record setting flight, hardships, experiences etc.

 

Anyway, I'm getting ready to do my own climbtests :), so I'll be able to report ,,, of course today was such a perfect day around here!


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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Good luck with the high altitude testing.

 

When I did mine, I requested a 100mile x 10 mile box that ran directly over Interstate 5 between Tracy and Harris Ranch (California). This box keeps me away from the heavy commercial traffic.

 

To date, the highest I've had mine is FL250. Typically I don't cruise above FL210, thats just about where my best climb speed is (95-100 kts at 2500 rpm), Thats the most efficient airspeed, anything slower and the efficiency goes way down.. (depends on tailwinds)

 

If I stripped everything out and got it as light as I could, I might be able to make FL280 - FL290. That would be with an IAS of about 60 - 65kts and turning 2900 rpm on the engine. (CS prop).

 

 

Dress warm, Its Very cold up there, double check your O2 and bring a small piece of plastic (credit card) to scrape the frost off the inside of the canopy.

 

 

Are you using my software to take data? Even if you don't have a Dynon you can at least get the GPS data..

 

http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml

 

 

Waiter


F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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No luck on the searching thing ... lots of nice articles etc, but nothing on the actual record setting flight, hardships, experiences etc.

There was a real good artiocle somewhere, described how he worked with the U of M to develop the vortex generators. Stripped everything except a small O2 bottle, etc etc

 

Search through the CPs or Central States Newsletters.

 

I'll look around a little and see if I can find it

 

Waiter


F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Thank you Waiter, for looking!

 

Anyway, my preparations so far as described in "Rules & Regulations - above 19500 VFR"

 

Copied here:

(and stuff added)

 

So, here we are with our waiver in hand, ready to do the testing and with a bit of luck, next weekend. (July 12, 2008)

 

For those that follow ...

 

Flights above VFR do not "have" to be IFR, they are however done to IMC minima. Since you will be in contact with your local radar people, you will have a tranponder and they will make sure that you have the separation with other traffic. "Radar" by the name of ATNS (Air Traffic Navigational Services) and their CAMU people (Central Air Management Unit) gave permission under the "Flexible Use of Airspace" act to do this testing VFR. The area allocated is 15 Nm around Lichtenburg (FALI)

 

My plane is still in it's test phase and in South Africa, I had to have the test range increased. They readily obliged and gave a a 350 Km (189 Nm) range from my base (FASY), this means my test area is nicely inside and should I have to divert, it can be in any direction.

 

Preparation of the plane:

 

Send plane to the Avionics shop and have the Transponder, radio and vacuum system checked out and tested.

 

Once back:

GPS charged and 12v connection intact. Garmin 296

Check second GPS Garmin 196

Strip and look everything over.

Wash & polish, including the canopy.

Check Oxygen system & volume.

Remove Canulle system & install full mask.

Refuel to 1/2 tanks on level.

Have some "stick on" window panels incase of "fog"

Chamois & soft cloth withing reach.

 

Before Saturday:

 

Check warm clothing:

Ski Suit - still fits, but not the belt itself.

Long Johns - we live in Africa & this from a ski trip, too long ago to remember.

Socks - great and they fit into the shoes too.

Gloves also from the skiing days ... still servicable.

 

Thu & Fri, change diet to eliminated gas creating foodies.

Daily Weather report: it must be VFR perfect with the least moisture possible, otherwise it will be aborted and done another day.

 

On the Saturday:

Detailed Weather report to confirm previous data.

Make sure everything is secure and shipshape.

Space blanket & clips in plane.

Gloves & mittens in plane.

 

Wait for the officials to install the FAI logger, that way I don't have to get cold twice :-)

Going for the record. Think Jim Price's 35017 is safe in the LongEze, but the Africa & South Africa numbers are open

 

Concerns: Things that cancel the event immediately ...

Any type of tingling, soon as it appears, it'll be over & we return.

 

 

You all may have any input on this, what to watch out for etc.

 

More later...

 

 

Mr Moderator, if this in the wrong place please move elsewhere.


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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all in place for 26 July 2008 :)

 

all around FALI (Lichtenburg) in South Africa.


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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Everything Looks good.

 

A couple notes:

 

Trim the plane for slight nose down (not level). This will require a slight back pressure. If you develope Hypoxia, and release the stick, at least it will start a descent.

 

Monitor yourself for signs of Hypoxia; fingernails bluish, slowness in judgment, Carefree attitude.

 

Keep up with your mixture, on the way up, AND on the way back down. be very aggressive with the mixture, lean for best power, don't worry about lean of peak.

 

I use a small credit card to scrape frost off the canopy.

 

Toilet tissue dampened with water can be used to plug air leaks that may develop under the canopy.

 

Take a large mouth empty bottle and paper towels. (relief tube)

 

Good Luck and keep[ us posted.

 

Waiter


F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Thank you very much for the advice and the wishes!

 

I'll be sure to report back :) This promises to be more fun than I initially thought, even if if does not get all that much higher.

 

The enthusiasm from all the aviation departments and such is truly inspiring, they were waiting for the flightplan & were about to ask if it was still on :)


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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All good suggestions, Wait.

 

I would add, rather than depend on your own senses for the onset of hypoxia, one symptom of which is that you can't depend on yourself, to get and use pulse oxymeter. This clips on your finger and constantly monitors your oxygen saturation. Get one with an alarm, rather than just a digital readout. One may even be available for rental, although they are not confiscatory cost-wise.

 

With this device clipped to your finger, you will get an alarm as the saturation begins to fall, rather than when it has reached a critical level as would be the case with self evaluation.

 

Keep the O2 flowing and reach for the heights:cool:


I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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Rich,

 

Good idea, You might be able to barrow one from the local clinic if you promise to provide then with readings and altitudes.

 

For Future Reference:

 

Here in The United States, Any pilot can get FREE (well, very low cost) high altitude training, to include an Altitude Chamber ride. Check out this link:

 

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_education/aerospace_physiology/

 

Waiter


F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Just a note to thank all you beautiful people for the kind wishes!

 

Also for having carried me to this point, without all the advice I would probably not even have thought of attempting this exciting mission.

 

Weather in the RSA tomorrow see:

http://www.weathersa.co.za/

from where you go:

Aviation

from where you go:

Aerosport

From where you go deeper down some:

click on the Aerosport pages or you can click on "spotgraphs"

This shows a map of the RSA, you simply click on the dot nearest to where you want the information (my nearset is Mafikeng West of Jhb/Pta) and it gives winds aloft, temps at those altitudes & more info than you would normally care to shake a stick at.

 

This link was kindly provided to me by Peter How from Composite Technologies! Thanks Peter!

 

Peter was also kind enough to lend me his "clip-on" Oxygen Saturation measuring instrument ... and here I thought there were none available in the RSA.

 

So not I'm totally kitted out!


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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Hello Boys & Girls,

 

This is to report that Cozy #219, ZU-CZZ managed to attain 28197' during the climb test today.

 

My Cozy is a standard as they come, fitted with an IO-360 lycoming and a 70" x 80" P-Prop (Local RSA).

 

It was still climbing at this altitude, about 100 fpm, but the temp outside was -24,5C (amazingly, just as prediced by the weatherman) and the alternator decided to call it a day ... the cold is what made me give up, really!

 

The Jhb region was looking to clear me to 30000, and they took their time over it, while waiting the cold got to me, so I cancelled further climbing and got out pronto.

 

The whole even took 2:24 min and the totak flight lengthe ended up being 331Nm (FALI is 89 Nm from my base airport FASY.

 

Looks like Waiter's world record is safe - for awhile :)

 

For my efforts, I may have picked up the local record :-)

 

Will post some pictures later :-)

 

Thank you one and all for


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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WOW; 28,200ft ; Congradulations.

 

Waiter


F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Very impressive!

So will you make another attempt to find the limits of your plane ?

I think once would be enough for me.

 

Great job!:thumbsup:


T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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Hello Boys & Girls,

 

This is to report that Cozy #219, ZU-CZZ managed to attain 28197' during the climb test today.

 

Wow Well done

 

hennie

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Thank you very much ...

 

some pictures ...

 

Numbers to show my Garmin 296 can count.

A grossly zoomed in flight profile.

A map with the numbers (Ok, i don't know why I'm showing you twice)

The temp gauge, the inside temp is measured under the glass of the cockpit, it was nowhere near that in the front, just ask my toes!

The cocpit picture ... what most amazed me was the difference between the standar setting and the GPS altitude, which was the same as the transponder altitude.

Also evident was the fact that the vauum system does not funcion well at that altitude ... should have seen that one coming!

 

Not clear from the profile is that the plane was still able to climb, do remember that they asked me to hold at this altitude, that's when I started changing my mind ... the discomport was just too much at that time. I was about to start shaking uncontrollable, my speech was slower and the fun was out of it. My Oxygen saturation still measured 87% but my heartbeat was at 137, it was not that high just 500' earlier, think it must have been stress due to the waiting and having to change the flying environment from climb to level ... any other excuse will be thought of, if these don't do.

 

Is there much more in my Cozy?

Yes, but not all that much, this was pretty much as far as I can take this one with this set-up.

 

As stated before the alternator packed up near the top, that in itself is not that bad, the battery will last at least an hour or two after this and I had a standby radio in the cockpit.

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post-4196-141090162981_thumb.jpg


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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While yours truly was up there, I also tried out to see how close the ASI could get to the supposed Mach Tuck number.

 

Well, just after my level waiting, it became time to descend, so I reduced the Rpm of the motor to 1500 and pushed the nose down as much as I could handle. The descend stabilised at just on 3000fpm at which point the propeller was being pushed to 2650 Rpm. Since I don't believe in overspeeding the motor, I kept that angle - quite steep ... you are looking at the ground far away over the instrument panel!

The indicated Airspeed got as high as 165 Kts and that was the most I could coax out of it ... then my ears started hurting real bad from the descend and the fun was out of it :) (for info the GPS showed 186Kt with a headwind of about 20 Kt or so at that level)

 

The result was, I think, that unless you get rid of the propellor disk at the back of the plane, you may not see that high (Mach Tuck) Indicated Airspeed ever :)

 

... Your own results may vary :)


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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Flirting with Mach Tuck....wowsers...soon you'll be seeing Friar Tuck..and the pearly gates!!!!

I havent checked the testing procedures/parameters, but didn't know this was part of the protocols.

Thanks for your report.


Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

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Nah, you can't get there while you have a prop :)

 

But "someone" mentioned it, so "one" has to see if it exists :)

 

Testing: Not really, you can make the test program as interesting as you want ... 3 years and I'm still in it ... "they" are getting annoyed at our CAA, but then it's fun poking the dragon :-)


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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Now regarding the Jim Price Record ... I have yet to see an article. The FAI says it was an O-320 motor ...

 

Pointers will be serverely appreciated, please!

 

Chris Van Hoof

ZU-CZZ


I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here!

Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath)

Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop

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The result was, I think, that unless you get rid of the propellor disk at the back of the plane, you may not see that high (Mach Tuck) Indicated Airspeed ever :)

I think the results showed that you wouldn't reach the critical mach # in a dive if you attempted too for the sake of your comfort and not wanting to overspeed your engine :)

 

If you got rid of the propellor and you were still in control, you still wouldn't want to descend greater than what you already did for your comfort, plus the speed needed to reach mach tuck would increase as your altitude decreased, but you can't just get rid of your propellor so.......

 

I think Marc's original post was regarding folks attempting level flight at altitude with bigger badder engines etc. that could flirt with mach tuck with the throttle wide open, wouldn't know they reached the critical # until it was too late. So HAVING the propellor WOULD be what got you there.

 

Congratulations on your flight, that's HIGH!!


Regards,

Jason T Heath

MarkIV #1418

heathjasont@yahoo.com

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the infinity 1 is claimed for a Vne of 460 mph: do they use a different canard?


Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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