Edge 513

Pretty crazy, eh? Thanks Chrissi/Tmann for the remarks. I always am amazed at the duplicate/ triplicate etc of strings of thought when dealing with a common design requirement. I went to your website a few minutes ago- and wah lah- this is what you have done....=] Drumroll/cymbal crash. ba-boom. One nice thing about these large screens and being independent[as you obviously know] is one can have all the EFIS and engine management info on the left side and on the right side have an entire screen size GPSmoving map or switch for co-pilot flying or call up all the airport info and Fbo database...on a large screen for my tri-focals...it will be nice. For 3500. bucks per side[plus an 1100.00 AHRS] it is like stealing something. Zow! Yea, I know the pc basher guys are cringing. Remember the separate G4 Oh, and they are adding XM weather and flightplannerFM in the spring.... I did paste the two screens together on the table to see the effect..

Being as how my hinge design projects into the middle of the avionics bay, and is splitting 20 inches at the center-line of F28- and with my panel tilt aspect...and the fact that I am starting the foam blocks for the canopy deck and all...I needed to verify how everything interacted. That is my reason for working on panel equipment depth ideas. If a guy was just leaving his I.P. vertical, and staying with front hinges out next to the longerons... no big deal to think about it ahead of time, theres a boat load of room with the consolidation of instruments into a glass cockpit. Yea, you do have to mount some support equip as you wish [AHRS/Air data] in the avionics bay as well...just not adhered to the panel back. You'll have to just check on Efis' do's and don'ts vs. cost benefits per each manuf. They, of course range from being just the basic six-pack to being able to scratch ones back. [i prefer my wife for the latter]. Some HAVE GPS that comes with the EFIS some do not and need to be driven by a separate GPS unit. As I see it you give nothing away when going with a quality glass cockpit. [flame suit on.] You do gain some nice features and capabilities. I think of it as a consolidating of information and a presenting of that information that would take getting used to by the traditional 'six-pack' fliers. None of this is important to the simple flying of the airplane in clear skies over familiar territory. To the barnstormer/traditional aviator- this all seems probably ridiculous as they probably don't even look at a panel much- they just go and fly!! I have heard of this remark. But,theres a lot of products out there, but I would say settling on a Manuf that has a lot of product /units out being used by John Q. Public and has a good track record, with upgrade ability down the line, is my interest. I hope that by the time I buy the G4- BMA will be happy with it. [i haven't heard much except what was just posted here by Wayne etc- maybe they are already near happy with it] I like that unit because it has all the Efis and Nav/GPS and EMS information available in one decent sized [for my application] package. The only thing better for that unit,for me, would be if the AHRS could be separate from the box. Good luck in the hunt. Dynon is great. GRT is great. I personally think with the 15,000 instruments that MGL has shipped...there is an application curve that has been pretty well gone through...they are a great choice. From what I hear the G4 series BMA's are great or getting there.[enough that I would like one] so its all a grab bag. As I said before, Marc made some good points about having two different driven systems in ones panel to me..and I personally think that even steam gauges as a backup just takes up a lot of space unnecessarily...and cost-wise is a wash with the Dynon D10A pricing so similar to the steam. If a flier needs just VFR instrumentation- maybe you don't want a backup system..the six pack didn't have a 'backup'. One last nice feature about the MGL is that all the engine monitoring connects to a unit on the firewall and only one cable comes forward to the I.P. One point to consider is that the I.P. in a Cozy is so close to you, a 7 inch diag screen is very good in its presentation of information. The bigger screens, 8.4"and 10.4 in the OP Tech units and the 10.4 [or bigger?]in the BMA and 10.4"MGL's are probably only a little more useful in that they separate printing and elements on the screen a bit more for us [like me] 5o year old myoptic types...and to my view that is helpful to me. TMann- enclosed is a pic of a GREAT Long EzE panel....Drool. Also enclosed is a pic of the back of the Odyssey unit. Last pic is a special moment that Marlin Perkins captured, regarding the never ending balance found in nature. Oh, also is a pic of Chris E's panel with his GRT's and what not- to give you a flying IFR panel[he flys a lot of IFR he says] idea.

This my panel. Marc really schooled me on having two separate EFIS's and AHRS and that is why in addition to the MGL Odessey's there is the G4 lite VERTICALLY in the center stepped stack. No to the steam gauges. The G4 lite is vertical due to what others have been talking about here. My center stepped stack is CF 282 and the sides around the MGL's will be the zebra wood like on Dons panel I just posted a pic of. [Whatever that wood is, anyway]....I had an old custom Weatherby 7mm that had a stock out of it and when I saw Dons panel..I said yep thats GOT to go on my panel. Just beautiful.

Back again so I can respond. Thanks Marc and that is a good point. Anybody should check with their EFIS manuf about this. The MGL has a separate AHRS so I was in the clear about this. As far as other manufacturers, people will need to find that out. My first choice was GRT, and they were also. About Marcs EMS. I must say that it was the experience of flying with Marc over LONG distance that was truly inspiring to me in regards to the CozyIV. Just wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. His plane is Fast, comfortable and efficient. I can't even imagine what flying for a 5 hour way point leg would be like in a puppet-straight seat like in a Cessna. There isn't much one can do to make this a better airplane. Just some subtle things. To my mind, flying with the reflection of my belly in his EFIS was probably one of the only drawbacks to the experience-... and also wanting to move my legs a little more. The reflection is less noticeable with a dark shirt on. To some it might not even be really noticeable. But as an aside- if a guy is building it from scratch and this is helpful on 3 different "fronts", for me I think it is a worthwhile, easy, modification. Tmann-Mine came out to 13 degrees..but then again that was with my projected 1 inch seat cushionage and my torso length. YMMV. Also, these EFIS' and EMS' are not as deep back in the panel [the MGL Odyssey is only 3 inches] so that allows the use of less space in the avionics bay. Remember most radios and transponders are still deep though so they have to be kept low. My .02 cents. I enclose a picture of Don's beautiful CozyIV panel as an example of reflection.

I was talking to a friend about something I did and since I don't have a website, figured I would post it here..as this makes a lot of sense to me. [Obviously- since I did it] All the reasons are included in what I wrote to him. Letter and pictures follow- Ted, I showed you the surgery one first as a teaser=] Yea, you'e right, maybe with all of my alterations I can't call it a Cozy..but I am building a Cozy- just not "My Dads Cozy"....to coin a phase.. Three things here. One. This observation from flying in a Cozy with a vertical Glass flat[EFIS/EMS] type screen- the angle for non glare on a flat screen is not optimal on the stock panel with it being vertical. What you see in the daylight is a reflection of your belly and if you are wearing a light colored shirt or jacket it really reflects off he screen. By changing the angle of the instrument panel to be at or closer or on a 90 degree sightline from your eyes- you change that and you don't get the body reflection. The screen nits are plenty bright for the slight upward tilt- that isn't a problem. And of course theres still a glare shield above it-which can be left plans dimension overhang[and cover the glass panels even more due to the inset of the angle]. Two. The second benefit is that with the rotation of the plans panel [ie cutting it off and simply rotating it forward, the top of the I.P. panel is lower, so you see out the front better [as if one really needs to- plans is fine] and you haven't cut down your panel space..in fact if you want a taller panel to fit a bigger screen EFIS in it- that is doable [and I did that to fit the huge MGL type screens in] and it comes out still lower than the plans panel top. Third. As you see in the pic, I cut the break in the panel where there is an unusable portion next to the armrests. This cut spot angles the opening forward from plans and allows me even with my longer legs to be able to draw my legs up and sit with my knees in front of me[with a 1 inch seat cushion] for an alternate leg position[which let me say, having experienced having only one leg position for a 4-1/2 to 5 hour flight would be a welcome option]. Shorter leg fliers in the 5 foot 8" tall range wouldn't care about this. Heres a pic of the plans instrument panel inserted on the angle before I rebuilt mine taller with a spacer. It is only set in rough, with nothing cleaned up so it is not quite positioned right,or 'pretty'..but pretty close.[note the biased cuts on the verticals in the center support. Simple as pie with a Fein tool...simple as pie. Theres more to mine than just this picture, but I think this might become the new Instrument panel arrangement for everybody for people wanting Flat panel Glass cockpits- for all the reasons above. Its easy to do, and its got good legs. Later fellow Dood, =]

Attaching the upper Firewall etc is in Chap 18- in the second [section II] book of plans- thats probably why you didn't see it.

Not to burst your bubble...but that cat has been in my bag for a long time. Below is my sketch from last spring and my mock-up photo. I had the new canopy ordered and was going to scrap the plans one. Try as one might-You will find not much hasn't been thought of or done by someone else before. I would say, forget your fancy 3d cad and whatnot...just start building and when you get to chapter 13 and you need to start working on plans for the canopy. I'll give you who to contact and the whole banana. There is a lot to this, but it ends up being pretty simple once you have things built.Oh, pretty simple is a misnomer-homer...I scrapped it after spending all the research and design effort... I told Marc that if I kept up all my "simple changes" it would add years to my building and I want to fly sooner than later. I kept my FHC direction, but ex'ed on this wide Long EZE style full canopy design. Plan on lots of CF uni work. Theres many cons to this "appearance mod" performance wise. But it is doable. It is not hard, really, by the time you have built through chap 13, you have the skill set to understand what is really doable and how to do it. It is just time..time..time, you may get to a point where you finally say...enough of this dreaming on paper...its easy on paper- but it translates into TIME and delays to build it. Everything interacts with everything else. 'Course then again, maybe you have more of a builder mentality timewise, and flying sooner than later isn't an issue. Let me just say that Lynn Erickson hit it on the head, when we were in his hanger looking at his plane and he asked me where I was building-wise. His response was.."Nobody really imagines just how much work in the fuselage. It is the hardest part- there is so much to it. The wings are easy. Its the Fuselage that takes forever". I concur. After you have been here, you possibly will also.

Thats great news for everybody...a good report. Wayne, is the Gen 4 pretty much bugless?

Good show Drew! Right now you are ahead of many people who have been "building" for a year or more...or holding onto some plans and thinking about building for.... Now that you have a head of steam..it will be hard to slow you down.

Roger that. [salute]

Wayne, Respectfully I say- hmmmmm? At the price of the feature/performance challenged BMA units you have described- I have heard NOTHING similar to that from Chris Esselstyn about his Grand Rapids Technology HorizonOne series dual screen set up. He has NO gripes, LOVES the units and they perform properly with hi Garmin 430. I don't think its fair to put GRT in your "working-out-the-bugs" list of equipment/manufactures list. And saying everybody wants G1000 performance but are just to cheap to buy it is kind of a slap...some guys I know are not building/flying on a shoestring budget, and are not simple limpwristed whiners... I was always schooled that if you were sold something, say a post hole auger..you weren't supposed to be pleased that it just made noises and spun around, it was supposed to auger. If you want the features that you describes the BMA units as providing, you can truly get them from Dynon for less than 3 grand. But I thank you for the history lesson on BMA. I wish they were great. They have good sized screen options and really look nice on their website. If I hadn't heard that conversation between Steve Wright and the other guy [i guess they are the "whiner" type] I wouldn't have felt so iffy. Maybe a later G5 series will be the ones to get. IMHO

Whaaaat am I builddding!?I'm building a large lawn ornament. ...been doing it for 2-1/2 years..and dang, what more can I say. I am a poser! You got me. Poser alertttttt!!!!! Nobody remembers some of the humor from the old forum....I know Chrissi has her fingers in her ears! nawnaww, Na na Naww nayaw,,,Nee ne naw. You had you be there a few years ago.=] you are right makes no sense now. Kind of like an old SNL rerun.

At 2007 RR, Steve Wright said he was 50/50 on his Big BMA unit. He was kind of exasperated when he was speaking in a small group next to his Stagger-Eze. Another guy said when his worked it was phenomenal..when it didn't it was catpoop. Thats pretty iffy. I know the Girrrls made them look pretty, as they had a hand in the external design...but as to the insides...maybe things are getting better.

Post some pics of you picking up your new bird! Congrats.. ...see we told you Beagle was THE MAN! Join AOPA and use their flight planner on their website. Its a great resource for such a cross country trip. Pics Pics Pics!

Jason and I had a laugh over this thread. I think its telling of the quality of honesty in this group, with all the men, pontificating about how 2 minutes is 'good enough'....and some say 30 seconds is plenty. Then theres the 5 minute guy whooo,wwhooo!..and Tman takes the cake... Thanks for the laugh, Jason. As per William Shatners signature old commercial... "Bust-a moooove".

I second Jason's motion- for cryin out loud support our 'girrrls'...good stuff...fair prices...buy from them.

While I cant really see it to well from here..=].I would say to mix up some micro and brush it everywhere inside [thicker in the chunked up spots]for new attachment- flatten it out with your piece of plywood to weigh it down and let it cure out. Its hard at this point to see it[because you want everything to come out perfect being your first parts] but really, its just a seatback. You are 9/10ths there. It will be way good enough. In the scheme of things later as you look at it [and I think it will just look like a regular microed seatback if you do it this way], it will just be one of a huge # of parts rather than focusing on these few parts that you have made and one of them was a learning experience. [ But- If it was f28 or one of the other bulkheads- I would say scrap it and do it over] Don't stressssssssss IMHO:cool:

Thanks Marc. Obviously I didn't know that. I'm not sure where- but I think I got that from the past bantering about the many reasons, regarding just WHY it was so all fired up better to build your own plane...and go through the 5-10 year birthing process.

Mike. I gotta say- its like you walked up to the counter and ordered up your Long Eze -regarding that plane in Chino thats available. You're a big guy and I bet if you sit in the wider version those guys built, you would probably go into orbit. Theres not a lot of Longs built like that. As to the price- as said, contact Beagle and you can get a good idea of a flavor of the pricing/marketplace...but as you have alluded, a reasonable price means one thing to most and thats CHEAPer than unreasonable". After that, its all over the board as to what some people call "reasonable". Beagle can tell you whats reasonable, regarding quality, age, condition, and help you out a lot. Longs go from 28-45K it seems... ....but wow- to pop up with the size you are and have a tailor made/custom sized airplane available is, like, some kind of, "sign" from above. The only downside to buying somebodies plane is the new owner can't repair and work on it. But Lynn in Chino is a 30 year experienced A+P and can probably be retained as he owns a beautiful one off canard he built himself. Oh, One other thing..If Bill Oertel [in Chino too.]can name his plane 'Stiletto'- I figure a Cop like you should name his something like Beretta. After all it is kinda like you're strapping on the plane, with that fighter plane F-16 fit!

It isn't to late to change your direction...Lez 2 be... And I might add, at 6-2 260# you are one of the largest women I have EVER made the acquaintance... Oh heck, Waz I the only...? Har de har...[backing up] Mr Navy Seal right there...Hulk Hogan in disguise....[hands out in front] Jussss kiddin' Welcome to the Canardian club! At 47 I realized the same thing as you describe and jumped in...Now every day when I'm doing something else, It'll creep in on my thoughts I've got a plane cooking up in the garage and I get a smile. It'll put some spring in your step.

I wish I didn't have to agree with you Marc, but thats how I see it also. I'm in on sweetening the bet- I'll contribute 100bucks as well. If unfortunately I'm on top in the end...I'll take a 50 buck gift cert from Air Sprooce....the payouts on the rotary guys side. Any takers? As part of this post topic though, I hope the principle involved with this Aericks plane will post some more info about it here. -How are they coming timewise, with being ready to sell kits? -What are the new specifications as to performance? -What is the new powerplant are others going to be allowed as approved? -What is the MAX Vne going to be? -What is the cost of the airframe kit? Deposit? Schedule of components? -Is there a discount for the first several kits offered? -Will there be a Stateside assemble location/ builder assist location? It is such a nice design that I hope something real is on the horizon. I have really longed for a Long eze with a big engine for years for fassst solo flight, and don't get me wrong I love this Cozy I am building...but this design is just the cats azz if you know what I mean. If it isn't priced ridiculously and it'll go as fast as it looks with 350# of humans and 35 gallons at least on board[it looks like a 225 kt airplane for sure]...I think I'd really like to take one on. More Info please.

I would be interesting with such a fast LOOKING plane- if with a more powerful powerplant the engineering boys would/could increase the Vne past the 200kts. Shame you couldn't put one pf those small TProps from England in it and cruise at 250mph at 10k??? And from what is printed it will only take a 220# pilot and a 24 gallons of fuel before it reaches its max.... Beautiful plane though...just beautiful. They were offering kits in 2003 for 50grand complete except the engine and prop & avionics.... Man- I would shell out the dough to build one after my Cozy, if it could motate like that...

Just saw my post. My garage is at 85 minimum not 65 minimum... Resin in the box at 95 mininumb....geeesh.

Phil, I wear a two sided bug respirator while wearing my glasses and its not a big deal. I do not wear goggles while doing a layup though...only while sanding. Use one of the well fitting resperators made out of rubber as pictured above...they beat the heack out of those itchy particle masks you are talking about. I'm not real sure how many particles they keep out being as flimsey as they are anyway. I think the double bug rubber style must ventilate better because I don't notice me sweating in it during a layup at 65 degrees[which is what temp is in the garage during a layup]. You'll be okay.

Drew...No need to put bricks and plywood and a bunch of weight on this..you guys are talking like this is some kinda Venus Flytrap or something...It just takes a little bit of weight where I was talking about, and thats fine. Dang, you'd swear this thing was going to curl up like a dried leaf the way you guys are gonig on...=]