schmeddz Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I wanna know where I sign up to get honored with box seats and a shout out on the field at the Super Bowl for crashing an airplane into the Hudson river. Who cares what the circumstances were! Does anybody else think this has gone on long enough??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBarber Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Nope. Does not bother me at all. All the best, Chris Quote Christopher Barber Velocity SE/FG w/yoke. Zoom, zoom, zoom. www.LoneStarVelocity.com Live with Passion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orinoco Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Who cares what the circumstances were??? I think you would if you had been in that cockpit. Sully has handled the aftermath of this incident just as professionally and with as much class as he did the incident itself. Let them have their 15 minutes of fame, it'll be over soon enough. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckerdraven Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 you got to take into consideration that what they did on that flight and what could have happened i have tremendous respect for the pilots and flight crew. not just anyone could have pulled that ditch off. remember if the wings would have been 2-3degrees from level that would have been disasterous and people would have died on that day so my hat goes off to the flight crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhendrick Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Looks like all decisions made were the right ones and it worked. What more can you ask. I say we reward such behavior. Hell, I'd be glad to get one thing right today as I build my workshop and try not to cut my fingers off or electrocute myself. Quote Larry Hendrick Canardiologist Cozy Mark IV Started 2/12/2009 - Now on Chap. 6 http://web.me.com/lhendrick/Cozy_MkIV/Welcome.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpolenek Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 One can't help but think of the many other flight crews that have been involed in accidents, where they may have acted with just as much skill in attempting to save lives, but were not successful due to a different set of circumstances. I like to think that we honour them vicariously by celebrating Sullenberger's success. Joe Polenek Quote Joe Cozy Mk IV #1550 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Swenson Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I think he deserves his 15 minutes of fame. But I think there is too much emphasis on his skill at landing the plane and not nearly enough on the decision making leading up to that point. Any pilot trained in that aircraft could have performed that landing on the water with equally as good results. That is what they are trained to do. I hear statements about keeping the wings level. Is there a pilot out there that does not think he can keep the wings level during a landing? The great thing about Sully was his superior decision making which lead to the eventual landing in the water. He had Teterboro in his sights and immediately dismissed it. How many would have tried to go for it? He was nearly at 3000 ft with LaGuardia right behind him. How many other pilots have made the mistake of turning around to stretch it back to the airport (hey---3K in my Long or Cozy----I'd go for it!---but not in the airbus)? How many people do we know who did not accept their fate of either an off road landing/water landing? It APPEARS that John Denver fought his airplane the entire way trying to restart the engine---instead of making a nice landing on the water. Finally, if I tell any Airbus pilot (or any pilot for that matter) to make a water landing----and do your best job (what else would they do at this point?), don't you think that they would all make the same landing? I sure do----that's just what we do. Hats off to Sully for superior judgement and decision making----and thankfully you can fly a plane like all the rest of your bubbas. Remember the cocked nose gear landing in LA? All the reporters were saying---ok, this time, this superior pilot is going to have to do a great job landing the plane---this time on the back wheels-----wow---I guess that is different. DC-10 is Souix City with center engine dead and all flight controls gone. Flew and landed the plane using differential engine thrust only---with a plane that would only turn right (or was it left?). That one I am going to have to bow down to the superior piloting skills. Most pilots don't really know what a phugoid is---that particular pilot might have heard of one somewhere in his career----but now he has a really good feel for what it is. For those who want to argue that piloting skill is what is in your head and the monkey skills that go with it----yep---I agree. But don't fool yourself into believing that the monkey skills in this case were super human. Evidently he had a well trained brain that threw out all the things that did not matter anymore (LaGuardia, Teterboro, etc) and concentrated on executing a perfect water landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 DC-10 is Souix City with center engine dead and all flight controls gone. Flew and landed the plane using differential engine thrust only---with a plane that would only turn right (or was it left?). That one I am going to have to bow down to the superior piloting skills. Most pilots don't really know what a phugoid is---that particular pilot might have heard of one somewhere in his career----but now he has a really good feel for what it is.My favorite part of the Souix City accident was when the tower radioed "You are cleared to land on any runway."As the pilot keyed the mike, you could hear the cockpit filled with laughter as the capt. says "You want us to put it on the runway?" They did touch down on the runway .......... in fact the gear went through the runway by about 3 feet. Sully did alright. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmeddz Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yeh Yeh Yeh,,,,,,,, I'm still waiting on those tickets! Just tell me where to plant the airplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatherder Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'll say this: It nice to see America make a hero out of (and pay homage to) someone who's actually done something significant, rather than some football/baseball/whatever player or even worse...some hollywood celebrity or rap musician. Things are tough right now...morale is not so good. We could use some real heros. This guy qualifies. You might say that any pilot trained in that aircraft could've done the same thing...but there haven't been many airliners ditched in the water with the same result. Most have experienced 'catastrophic structural failure' upon impact. Circumstances conspired...and this guy pulled it off. He deserves an atta boy. Good on him Quote Marc Oppelt Olympia, WA http://picasaweb.google.com/oh.u8it2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Swenson Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 <quote>You might say that any pilot trained in that aircraft could've done the same thing...but there haven't been many airliners ditched in the water with the same result. Most have experienced 'catastrophic structural failure' upon impact. Circumstances conspired...and this guy pulled it off. He deserves an atta boy.<quote> Find me the data that shows airliners intentionally setting up for a water landing with catestrophic results. From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing I make the same distinction that wikipedia makes. There is a difference between a controlled landing in the water and crashing a plane. Pretty sure the media and the general public do not know the difference. Since goatherder does not think he can pull it off---I'm not flying with him amendment: To see what it looks like when you don't keep the wings level, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961 In this case the pilot was actually fending off hijackers while attempting this landing---so this one does not count. Here is another---but this time a 737 landing on grass (AFAIK---the only grass landing for this type of plane): 24 May 1988; TACA 737-300; near New Orleans, LA: The aircraft was approaching the New Orleans airport when it encountered heavy precipitation, including hail up to 1.25 inches (32 mm) in diameter. The aircraft experienced a dual engine flameout at about 16,200ft due to water ingestion, and the flight crew were able to establish emergency electrical power at about of 10,500ft. The crew was unsuccessful in their attempts to restart the engines, and had to execute an emergency landing on a grass strip on a levee on the Intercoastal Waterway (after initially planning to ditch the aircraft on the waterway). The flight crew successfully made an unpowered landing and none of the 45 occupants were injured. The aircraft was repaired and flown off the levee. NTSB report here: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X25693&key=1: picture here: http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/taca-msy/photo.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yeh Yeh Yeh,,,,,,,, I'm still waiting on those tickets! Just tell me where to plant the airplane. Plant the airplane in the nearest river (or other emergency landing area) after you unexpectedly fly into birds knocking out power to both your engines and do so with no casualties. Then the tickets are on me. I sort of understand how the media attention can be annoying, however the pilots and crew did there jobs wonderfully and they deserve credit for their professionalism and grace under pressure. What really rather annoys me more is the folks that disregard the skill and training of the crew and choose to give all the credit to some supernatural forces called forth by the pleadings of the passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 What really rather annoys me more is the folks that disregard the skill and training of the crew and choose to give all the credit to some supernatural forces called forth by the pleadings of the passengers.You mean the same force that helped the Steelers and rooted against the Cardinals in the Superbowl? Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatherder Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 What really rather annoys me more is the folks that disregard the skill and training of the crew and choose to give all the credit to some supernatural forces called forth by the pleadings of the passengers. AMEN BROTHER! Most people are just two-legged sheep. Quote Marc Oppelt Olympia, WA http://picasaweb.google.com/oh.u8it2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You mean the same force that helped the Steelers and rooted against the Cardinals in the Superbowl? Most Likely, However I was ill that day and missed the game, so I cannot really say for sure what force caused that to happen. Most people are just two-legged sheep. only some of us don't have that much body hair.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatherder Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Anybody know about how fast that thing was going when it hit the water? Quote Marc Oppelt Olympia, WA http://picasaweb.google.com/oh.u8it2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 <quote>You might say that any pilot trained in that aircraft could've done the same thing...but there haven't been many airliners ditched in the water with the same result. Most have experienced 'catastrophic structural failure' upon impact. Circumstances conspired...and this guy pulled it off. He deserves an atta boy.<quote> Find me the data that shows airliners intentionally setting up for a water landing with catestrophic results. Drew, Without taking sides of the human factor, from a purely a structures standpoint, we do not count on the airframe of a Part 25-certified jet transport to hold together like the A-320 did, in a ditching scenario. The A-320 had optimum conditions for a ditching, certainly, and I know that this will add to the data we (Boeing and those cheese-eaters across the Atlantic) have for such events. The FARs for Ditching and Floatation are written such that there are only a few specific requirements for structural performance (doors and windows don't blow in or out, for example - 14 CFR Part 25, Section 25.801(e), with associated 25.563). Otherwise, 14 CFR Part 25, Section 25.801 is pretty "loose" with respect to structural requirements. In the event that circumstances yield a fuselage that is reasonably intact, the functionality of systems that support safe egress have to meet certain performance capabilities. Overall, the A-320 fuselage is no better or worse, than any other fuselage structure on any other comparable transport category jet. We expect that fuselages rupture in the belly (bag pit doors blowing in, belly skins failing, etc.), with the next bets being with failure of the fuselage at one or more "production breaks" (joints between fuselage sub-sections). Unless you configure the belly like a Martin Mars, water landings are a bugger to design for, unless weight & payload & performance is no factor. As for the 737-300 example (TACA Flight 110), the 737-300/-400/-500s and the 737 NGs are designed to be land-able on the engine nacelles - the wing, pylon and nacelle structures are designed to react full landing loads in the event of a gear-up landing, and maintain the general structural integrity of the airframe (fuel tanks being the biggie here. With such a landing on wet grass, it was not much of a surprise to us that this airplane retained sufficient structural and overall integrity to be repairable. -Joe Person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainfart Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 > (Boeing and those cheese-eaters across the Atlantic) It's always nice to see these kind of prejudices prevail even on fora where people are expected to have above average mental capabilities, you SUV-driving burger-eater. (What's this thing you people have with the French???) Besides, just to point out the obvious, Airbus is not French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Refuse Toulouse! Pure humo(u)r (extra vowel , just in case...) disguised as wanton jingoism! Airbus is headquarted in Toulouse, and no worries - I had some fine interactions with some of my counterparts from that consortium across the pond. Matter of fact, on one occasion, we had burgers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1234 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I read the cheese-eating comment as humour. There's a current thread on this very topic on the yahoo canard group for anyone who can stomach some genuine jingoistic prejudice. I'm with Marc all the way on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmeddz Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Bwahahahahahah!!! I really started something with this didn't I?? I've actually hit two birds. Not at the same time, however. (This part I really didn't make up.) I even brought the plane home safely. I suppose the only evidence I had was guts on the wing the one time, and on the winglet the next. ("Hey Schmeddly. What's that on your winglet?" Me: "Durh?? Looks like bird guts!") Popped a balloon once. Don't ask me where it came from, it was just there! Really! It took three trys! Everybody watching me on the ground said, "what the hell was that all about?" I just grinned and pointed to the string hanging on the canard. NOBODY sent me any tickets!!! We train pilots where I work. Nothing makes them any more heroic (or special) than anybody else. This guy...? right place right time. Luck, skill, training, preparation, smooth water for ditching... No bridge to crash into. It could have gone the other way you know. One of them there pilot types even said to me once, "Oh, you ONLY fly an experimental?" (Yeah, one that I built myself...! ) Don't get me started, I work for Boeing. I refuse to comment further... Peace Builders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainfart Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 > Airbus is headquarted in Toulouse Yes. And EADS, which owns Airbust, is headquartered in The Netherlands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Swenson Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Joe---Do you have any more info on the TACA-110 airplane? What kind of stuff had to be done with it---where is it now---etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 She'll be 21 in March (and legal to drink everywhere...), and is still in operation, plying her trade with a US operator. From 20 years back in my memory banks, restoration required engine work (I do not know if the CFM-56's required replacement), structural repairs on the belly, overall structural inspection of the structures/zones that such an event would require, etc. As for Airbi, ah mon frere, they are headquartered in Toulouse, in a similar manner that Boeing Commercial Airplanes (division) is headquartered in Renton, Washington, but The Boeing Company as a whole is headquartered in Chicago. "Ah'm French! Why do you think Ah have this outrrrrageous accent, you silly king!?" -French Taunters, "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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