TMann Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 ....... or pride go before the ...... oh, whetever. My mind has been cranking overtime lately. I'm looking at my canard and I'm just not happy with it. Burt's words keep echoing in my mind ..... Your best is barely good enough.... .....or something to that effect. I look at my (overweight) canard and for all my efforts, it just didn't turn out as well as I hoped for. I keep stalling as far as mounting it because I know that to reject it after that point is going to REALLY suck big time. So this AM, I ordered up newfoam and I'm going to start over. Not an easy choice to make ...... but I believe it to be the right one. I belive that 30 lbs is way to heavy (especially considering I vacuum bagged it). The top profile just does not match the templates like it should. Some areas looked good while others did not pass what I would expect from any other manufacturer. So it's back to square one for this part. All-in-all, I feel a lot better about this path vs. any other. Better is better! Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Morrison Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Tom Is 30 lbs the weight of the canard without the elevators and ends. I'll go out tonight and weigh mine which is complete, ready to install and fill. I have a good UPS 50 lb scale. I'll get back to you. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 i can chek mine if you like ? Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thanks guys but I'm going to give this a shot. If I'm going to focus on the canard for right now. I need to get this right. This is a cheap eduction compared to what it will cost me if I screw up something like the wings (which will be carbon fiber.) It's an inconvenience .......... maybe set me back three weeks or so ....... but hour after hour of great performance is the trade off. There was a guy in our chapter who had a VariEze. His name was Bill Buda. It was the most incredible piece of work. You could not tell it from a factory built aircraft. Every time we worked on repairs or new parts, we said we were going to 'Buda' it. Well .... I;m going to 'Buda' my canard. I'm not bummed about it. I would be if I didn't address it now. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'd appreciate the weights muchly. I just did my canard shear web today, will do the canard spar caps and skins w/in two weeks. Would be nice to know how I 'weigh in' with the pros. Tom: When I did my main spar, the spar tape trough got real "Jell-O like" once the trough was full up. If you vac bagged this, and the vac pulled ever so slightly unevenly... My main spar came in at 46lbs if I remember right, I don't vac bag. Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 My canard without elevators, but with the tips and hinge hardware installed came to 22 lbs. I did not vacuum bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 My canard without elevators, but with the tips and hinge hardware installed came to 22 lbs. I did not vacuum bag.Yeah ... that sounds about right. I know Wayne said his came in right around there as well. My CS Spar came in at 42 (not vacuum bagged.) ....so I vacuum bag my canard and it comes in heavy? We'll see if I can make an improvement. What is really amazing are the weights posted in CP 25-26 (Dick & Mike's project) Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have a complete spar and canard with all attatchments hanging from the ceiling. I would love to know how much they weigh. Just for comparisons. I do not have a scale that will do that. This summer I will do the garage sale thing and maybe I can find one. Steve build on Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 My canard without elevators, but with the tips and hinge hardware installed came to 22 lbs. I did not vacuum bag.ok that dose it.... running out to shop....tap,tap,tap24.4 with a bathroom scale from hf no elevators or pins, tips on, the short one (6" off?) Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 ok that dose it.... running out to shop....tap,tap,tap 24.4 with a bathroom scale from hf no elevators or pins, tips on, the short one (6" off?) Sounds about in the ball park of what others (recently that I have seen) have been coming up with. Just to clarify, my canard is for a long-ez, and I also used a bathroom scale, so accuracy is suspect. I did check the scale with a couple of known weights, so it probably is close. We'll see if I can make an improvement. What is really amazing are the weights posted in CP 25-26 (Dick & Mike's project) Those weights would be for the original GU canard. However I can't think of a reason off hand that the newer Roncz canard should weight 5 to 7 lbs more. Perhaps the spar cap material.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Innova Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Remember, the foam we use for the wings has some signficant variability in density. This is more apparent on the wings which have a lot more foam, but still. Also, if you did a good job pressing down the the spar cap tape, or made your spar depressions slightly deeper than normal, that could account for the extra material = extra weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTJohnson Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I do not really understand the big issue and discussion on canard weight. As far as I know, Burt was concerned about the elevator weight and balance. This was back for the Varieze and maybe things have changed since then, but it will need to be explained to me. Also on the Varieze and probably all canards with the engine in the rear, approaching the rear CG is often a problem. So having an extra pound in the canard may very well be helpful. When I built my plane I shifted whatever I thought I could to the nose including battery relay, voltage regulator, larger battery, etc. Overall aircraft weight is of course an issue and I just posted a reply about doing your fiberglassing in a high heat eg. 90 deg F or better. My epoxy flowed almost like water when I built the wings and they came out very light in weight. W.Johnson.........Varieze N725EZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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