Kingpilot Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I'm going to move my master brake cylinders to the nose and on the pedals. I don't like having the master brake cylinders on the firewall. Does anybody have a working set? How is it working out? Do you have a contact person? Any Ideas? Thanks Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Swenson Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 They work awsome compared to the rear mount. There are many different ways to do this. The basic concept is best illustrated in the proper section at berkut13.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I would suggest the rudder pedals created by Dale Martin. They are already set up for the Matco master cylinders and are adjustable (without removing any cable attachments.) If you look at the picture, the cable threads through the 'S' shaped tube and is anchored at FS 0.0. I'm working on this chapter at the moment and expect to have these installed by the end of Jan. I was watching the Red Bull air race and when they detail the planes ..... they have the same adjustable pedal arrangement. You can find information to contact Dale on www.long-ez.com Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Ashton Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Search some of these builder pages. You will likely find lots of rudder pedal ideas http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/main Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Search some of these builder pages. You will likely find lots of rudder pedal ideasI checked out this link and although there are a few Long-EZs listed, I found no construction details. Lots of Cozy links. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingpilot Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 Thanks guy for all the info. I'm going to call Dale Martin in the morning. I like the setup that he offers. It is great to part of a group of people that wants to help each other. (Canard Zone) Thanks Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I am working in my own design (with some ideas stolen from others) for front mount master cylenders. Can anyone tell me what the typical distance the stock rudder pedals travel is (how far do they pull the cable) before the brakes are engaged? I'll post some pictures of what I am doing in a couple of days for you all to tear apart if I can get this figured out. Thanks. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 It's around 3.5-4.0 inches. The rest of the travel is facilitated via the spring. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 It's around 3.5-4.0 inches. The rest of the travel is facilitated via the spring. Thanks. But it is unclear to me what you mean by "The rest of the travel is facilitated via the spring" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Swenson Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 On both a Longez and a Cozy, the POH tells you how to set up the pedals. The POH is not sitting in front of me---but you would stomp on the pedal as hard as you could (full braking) and then have someone measure the deflection of the rudder in inches at the bottom of the rudder. You would have to adjust the pedal (trombone, plunger, whatever mechanism that you are using for actuation of the master cylinder) so that you got that magic deflection at full braking. If you did not get enough deflection at full braking, then you are obviously engaging the master cylinder too early. On a cozy, the rudder cable has a spring on it. This more or less allows you to engage the master cylinder somewhat late in the process---this is good. This will ensure that you get FULL deflection prior to master cylinder engagement. On a longez (without the spring)---if you tried this, you would probably break something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Not sure which CP. The spring allows the pedal to continue travel after full deployment of the rudder. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 On a cozy, the rudder cable has a spring on it...Not on the stock COZY MKIV. The spring is added IF you install the hidden rudder belhorns - NOT with the stock plans system. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Not on the stock COZY MKIV. The spring is added IF you install the hidden rudder belhornsThanks Marc ... I been looking over the stock plans trying to find where I saw it. PTM is building from the Open-EZ plans IIRC. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Thanks Drew and Thomas. That makes perfect sense now. I did notice in the Long-EZ plans that they call for 0.7" extra play at the rudder bellhorn. I persume this was to allow for that extra movement after the brakes are first engaged. So. If I understand this correctly I will need about 4" of movement from neutral rudder to full deflection, then again enough to push the master cylinder in another 1.38" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 So. If I understand this correctly I will need about 4" of movement from neutral rudder to full deflection, then again enough to push the master cylinder in another 1.38" You've got it. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 You've got it. Not quite so fast. I see that the available stroke for the Matco MC-4 cylinder is 1.388" Do I actually have to design the system so that the entire 1.388 is used? I am having some trouble figuring out the correct geomtery that gives me the correct rudder pedal movement and the entire stroke of the master cylinder. I guess this is what I get for trying to do something my own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Think Pi * D Mine are set up this way: The Master Cylinder is 2.75" from the pivot The rudder cable is around 7.5 " from the pivot Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Think Pi * D Mine are set up this way: The Master Cylinder is 2.75" from the pivot The rudder cable is around 7.5 " from the pivot Right. I have about the same measurments using the stock rudder pedal and the recomended mechanical advantage that Matco publishes. Its just the the geometry of the parts I had envisioned are just not working out when I lay them out in cad. I think that I will either have to go with the tube in tube (berkut or Dale Martin meathod), or some other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I'll PM you. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Swenson Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Not on the stock COZY MKIV. The spring is added IF you install the hidden rudder belhorns - NOT with the stock plans system. Oops--quite right--I do have the hidden rudder belhorns---and without the spring you would be attempting to drive the belhorns thru the skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ok, as promissed a few weeks ago, here are some pictures of the rudder my pedals and brake linkages... Please let me know what you all think, will these work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ok, as promissed a few weeks ago, here are some pictures of the rudder my pedals and brake linkages... Please let me know what you all think, will these work? If not, why? Any suggestions welcomed. higher resolution images at: http://www.flyingbackward.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Looks like it should work! Hows the action? Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Looks like it should work! Hows the action? I will really need to try these out installed soon. the moving parts work good so far. My plan is to use an AN bolt with a castelated nut and pin. A couple of washers helps keep everything aligned well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Not on the stock COZY MKIV. The spring is added IF you install the hidden rudder belhorns - NOT with the stock plans system.is there a # for the spring ? i tried the 4" x .35 OD .050 wall,it feels like it needs to be at lest two times stronger ? Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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