Open-EZ CAD Drawings

[Vortal]

By the way, I'm doing the 3D CAD model of the Open EZ and i'm already having trouble with the templates, not in there accuracy but in there spacial positioning (specially F22 To high or instrument panel to low)

I'm wainting for my TEF CDs, maybe this all will make sens when ill get them, if not ill let you know

The purpose of this is to have a baseline model of the OeZ as a basis for modification (and also do a virtual buildup of the aircraft before spending cash on materials and tools) and also have a more detailed (specially in dimensions) detail drawings of each component

Next will eventually be to create the Dwgs usable for construction with BOM and so on...

Intentions or incorporations : long nose, more rounded section, canard modifs, main wing and winglet modifs... reading the post in the forum is instructive on what is useless to try out (Flaps for example) an want could be done

VorTaL

PS : French is complex because of onprononced letters and the gender of words (masculin or feminin)... (i'm from there so i have a bit of experience on that point)

[raiki]

I'm doing the 3D CAD model of the Open EZ

Been there done that.

 

[mfryer]

That shape is etched in my mind......

http://flyingbackward.blogspot.com/

Flying Backward

[Vortal]

Been there done that.

Seeing your model confirms me that the TEF CDs are going to help

Did you do the hole aircraft?

[raiki]

Vortal said:

Did you do the hole aircraft?

At this stage no. I have what you see, plus wings and some other parts etc. My intention was not to build a whole model in one hit, but actually produce models at different stages of completion so builders get a good idea of how things should look at each step.

I have actually rewritten a few chapters on the EZ plans with all diagrams and the like drawn in 3D CAD and 3D images of all assemblies in place of Burts hand drawings. At this stage it was for my use only, because I don't want to get into the whole copyright issue.

You never know, one day (in the very distant future) they may be part of the OpenEZ project. I'd love to show everyone but at this stage I am not going too for the reasons mentioned above. If it is decided by the hierarchy that the OpenEZ project needs them, I'll finish them.

[Jon Matcho]

These would be a great contribution to the Open-EZ project!

[Vortal]

I had the same issues with copyrighted stuff... templates are one thing, the hole project (TEF CDs lets say is an other)

I will still do the aircraft in cad version with associated DWGs for my personal use, and if Jon wants to have them as soon as the the copyright question is sorted out some way or an other, i'll be happy to give them to the OeZ project

My objectifs is to create and sell my own kits (not an OeZ, some thing else), and this is a pretty good exercise on how should be presented the drawings and manuals and have people comment on my work.

[Jon Matcho]

raiki said:

At this stage it was for my use only, because I don't want to get into the whole copyright issue.

Vortal said:

I had the same issues with copyrighted stuff...

Creating CAD drawings based on the Long-EZ design does not infringe on any copyrights. The design itself is not protected in this case.

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I will still do the aircraft in cad version with associated DWGs for my personal use, and if Jon wants to have them as soon as the the copyright question is sorted out some way or an other, i'll be happy to give them to the OeZ project

There is no copyright question or issue to be sorted out, and the Open-EZ project would be most welcome to receive your good work.

[Vortal]

Ok then, i'll start with the templates then, i know it's been done before, but right now it's the only thing i have in my hands... still waiting for tef CDs

Any format wanted? (PDF i suppose)

I will do one part/one model/one drawing and use ANSI format for prints

Please give me your inputs in case of discrepancies in format/sizes

i'll try to do my own checkings but still i do not have any originals and by the way, i do not guaranty or take any responsibilities what so ever on the information on my drawings (to cover my back)

[raiki]

Jon Matcho said:

Creating CAD drawings based on the Long-EZ design does not infringe on any copyrights. The design itself is not protected in this case.

There is no copyright question or issue to be sorted out, and the Open-EZ project would be most welcome to receive your good work.

Jon I agree with you there, and I have no problem passing on my CAD drawings (in fact I think you have some of them). What I meant was I wasn't releasing the plans rewrite for that reason. What are your views there ?? You have seen the rewrite.

[Jon Matcho]

raiki said:

Jon I agree with you there, and I have no problem passing on my CAD drawings (in fact I think you have some of them).

Yes, and they were very good. I'll take another look at them and comment if you'd like.

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What I meant was I wasn't releasing the plans rewrite for that reason. What are your views there ?? You have seen the rewrite.

I'm not a lawyer, but your rewrite was substantial last I viewed it and I feel would fall under Section 107 Fair Use of the US Copyright Law (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.pdf).

Remember, the design itself is not protected, so we're okay there.

The problem, as I see it, is that in order to rewrite the plans substantially enough so that they do not infringe would result in new plans of unknown quality with no referenceable aircraft created (and flying) from those plans.

To proceed, I suggest writing Chapter 4 only (I forget what Chapter you did), and let everyone thoroughly comment on that in an open source process. Once the style guide and conventions are finalized, Chapter 5 can be considered. Once all that is done, someone would need to build one from THOSE plans to make everyone else comfortable.

It's a substantially long (duration wise) and large scope project, and makes the TERF option seem not-so-bad at the moment.

[raiki]

Ok, I am a little un-easy about releasing these so I have 'defaced' them to the point that they are not usable. What this allows is for people to comment. Chapter 4 only. Some changes are required, like the commas where there should be decimals in the drawings. I have colour (yes that is how we spell it) coded the foam to highlight what parts are made from similar foam. Text is coloured, red for an important note and blue for optional stuff.

I'll leave it up to the Project to comment, and please be honest. If you think it is a bad idea or the rewrite is %$#@ please say so. I personally am worried that no matter how much we change the plans, there is no denying we are building a LongEZ clone.

OpenEZ Plans - Draft.pdf

[Jon Matcho]

raiki said:

Ok, I am a little un-easy about releasing these so I have 'defaced' them to the point that they are not usable.

As I said, you shouldn't be worried. I suspect international copyright laws are very much the same as US copyright law.

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I have colour (yes that is how we spell it) coded the foam to highlight what parts are made from similar foam.

Great idea, except when you get down to different shades of yellow... may need to use some black & white thatch marks, or something.

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Text is coloured, red for an important note and blue for optional stuff.

Need to define 'important' and 'optional'. Red makes me feel like someone is angry with me...

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I personally am worried that no matter how much we change the plans, there is no denying we are building a LongEZ clone.

The Open-EZ Tandem is indeed a clone of the Long-EZ design. Why is that a problem?

[Vortal]

This is what i had in mind

The drawing is far from finished, i still need to see the instruction from the TERF cds (corresponding chapters), but it's mainly what i'm thinking about

This drawing is a detail drawing of the instrument panel (not checked over the templates) there will be assembly drawing for installation purposes...

Any remarks?

BTW, This is scale 1:1 and on a printable standard format (ANSI F format), your local print shop will understand, and no headaches with proper scaling the sheet, do not resize on the iner box, as this is the drawing area and not the external limits of the sheet.

INSTRUMENT PANEL - DRAFT.pdf

[Jon Matcho]

Beautiful! And are those inches?! I almost fell out of my chair seeing inches come from France!

I *think* F-size might be too big. Smallest possible ANSI sheet preferred, E-size should work though (I think that's much more accessible for printing purposes). Having the WHOLE template in one should be a given this day and age.

Very well done!!! I'd like to print and compare to the originals.

[Vortal]

Jon Matcho said:

Beautiful! And are those inches?! I almost fell out of my chair seeing inches come from France!

Thanks,

Even in France, the aerospace industry is in inch (unfortunately ) and i suppose you prefer this to cm's, i only removed the fractions (to much of a headache)

For The F size, i'll try to make the bulkhead fit in a smaller sheet, but i wouldn't think so, the hole point is tho have a 1:1 scale, just like the original, to be able to work as a transfer sheet (again like the templates)

[Jon Matcho]

Vortal said:

Even in France, the aerospace industry is in inch (unfortunately )

Viva la France!

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...and i suppose you prefer this to cm's, i only removed the fractions (to much of a headache)

No comment.

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For The F size, i'll try to make the bulkhead fit in a smaller sheet, but i wouldn't think so, the hole point is tho have a 1:1 scale, just like the original, to be able to work as a transfer sheet (again like the templates)

See if you can do ANSI E, but I suspect ANSI F can be done. ANSI E is just easier/better considering commonly available print shops here.

[Vortal]

Ansi E is larger than ANSI F?? (i'll never understand your standards...)

Correct me if i'm wrong, E = 44in x 34in ; F = 40in x 28in

So yes it's very possible to put it on a E format, no problem....

My next stages are to check these drawings vs the templates you have given on the Open-EZ main thread and go thru does TERF CDs as soon as i have them in hand and the draw...

I suppose that with the building manual of raiki (or others), we'll have a pretty updated set to build this aircraft.

[raiki]

Jon, it might be worth splitting this thread as it's hardly about the Girrrls original question anymore (well I suppose it is, but it is also much more).

[Jon Matcho]

Vortal said:

Ansi E is larger than ANSI F?? (i'll never understand your standards...)

Correct me if i'm wrong, E = 44in x 34in ; F = 40in x 28in

My mistake! I was looking at the 40in dimension, comparing to the 34in dimension. Most wide format printers available at local print shops can handle *maybe* up to 36in wide. ANSI F is fine, but will "waste" about 8in (x 3.33ft) per print which will amount to a couple dollars once all is done. Nothing major to worry about. Either size is fine, but I also think that ANSI E media is more readily available -- I could be wrong.

Don't let me get in the way of your progress -- your work remains excellent.

raiki said:

Jon, it might be worth splitting this thread as it's hardly about the Girrrls original question anymore (well I suppose it is, but it is also much more).

Voila.

[raiki]

After thinking about what you have said, here is the complete Chapter 4 for everyone to think about.

OpenEZ Plans.pdf

Vortal, excellent drawing. I have already drawn the wing templates, but only the templates themselves (one piece, not the two part like the Long-EZ). If you like I can send them to you and you can verify correctness and add your title block etc. Actually it might be a good idea to steal (I mean borrow) mfryers title block. I like the logo and text. There is also a post on CZ somewhere with a 3D model I had done of the wing. It is correct but it was only surface modelled. I will solid model it shortly, because ACAD2008 now has the Loft the command. When I created the wing ACAD couldn't loft as a solid.

[Vortal]

Ok,

I have received a couple of DWGs and model form mfryer, i'll check them out for the title block and so on and i'll let you know

For the 3D model, i wont be able to help you since i don't use autocad (parametric rules! try alibre xpress for instance, it's free!)

Apart form that as you (who's you?) have originals, please check the correctness of my dimensions, to have an accurate product at the end

Voila messieux

[Vortal]

Ok hem other question(s) what will be the "baseline" of the Open-EZ, is it the same baseline as the Long or are we directly going for the all modified EZ (roncz canard, large rudders, air brakes...) let me know so i wont bother put in the GU airfoils and so on...

[raiki]

Ok hem other question(s) what will be the "baseline" of the Open-EZ, is it the same baseline as the Long or are we directly going for the all modified EZ (roncz canard, large rudders, air brakes...) let me know so i wont bother put in the GU airfoils and so on...

I would say yes on the Roncz, large rudders and airbrake. I doubt you'll find one person here that would prefer to build otherwise. I was planning to rewrite the plans with all those included as standard.

[Jon Matcho]

Vortal said:

...what will be the "baseline" of the Open-EZ, is it the same baseline as the Long or are we directly going for the all modified EZ (roncz canard, large rudders, air brakes...)

I vote to use the best version of the Long-EZ as had come from the Rutan Aircraft Factory (the mods you and raiki mention). I agree that nobody is going to want a GU at this point.