deronjthomas Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I know some of my questions might seem kinda stuped to some of you, but please remember that I'm a computer geek not an engeneir. To help promote air density to the engine could one make the air scoop bigger? Or will the bigger scoop would add too much drag? And would a more efishent inner cooler help with the turbo, and supperchargers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Gifford Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 It not just the inlet that matters, it is also the exhaust of the cowling. You can ram all the air you want into the cowling, but unless it has a way out you cannot get flow through the cowl. From what I have been reading, most engine installations vary depending on the aircraft. Someone else will have to chime in here, but probably the biggest differences is whether the aircraft configured as a pusher or a tractor. I would assume most of the equipment will be laid out similarly (intercooler, turbo, radiator, oil cooler) for either the pusher or tractor config, but cowling plumbing will likely be unique to the model of aircraft. Quote Nathan Gifford Tickfaw, LA USA Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330 Better still --> Now at CH 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deronjthomas Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 I'm looking to build a pusher, but I have not decided on witch one as of yet. I'm just trying to figure out how to get the best performance out of the engine. I was just think as you go up in elivation the air gets thinner. This will starves the engine of oxygen. Which in turn cause lower performance of your power plant. So to solve this problem would one just put a bigger turbo or supper charger on the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Gifford Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 You are correct at elevation and altitude reducing engine and prop performance. When you are researching the various pusher arrangements you will also need to consider the mission of the aircraft. For example the Cozy/Aerocanard is designed to keep costs down for a serious cross-country aircraft. This is accomplished by shedding things like turbos, RG, and constant speed propellors. Velocity supports larger engines, RG, etc. Costs more to build. Berkut like the Velocity bigger engines, etc, costs more too. Quote Nathan Gifford Tickfaw, LA USA Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330 Better still --> Now at CH 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deronjthomas Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Nathan, Your input has helped me get closer to my goals, and I don’t know what I would do with out this forum. God Speed -Deron J. Thomas- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Gifford Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Go to all the forums too. Other forums will have different perspectives which you will find very useful. I also think you can read the Cozy newsletters online and they are a wealth of information. Quote Nathan Gifford Tickfaw, LA USA Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330 Better still --> Now at CH 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Go to all the forums too. Other forums will have different perspectives which you will find very useful.But this forum is the best. I have quantifyable proof to back that statement up as well, so don't even challenge me on that. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiStefano Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 WEDYH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Gifford Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 But this forum is the best. I have quantifyable proof to back that statement up as well, so don't even challenge me on that. I don't feel qualified to judge yet. However, I'll give additional points to any board that doesn't use the 'Smiles'. But I guess I should add 'wink, wink, say no more' Quote Nathan Gifford Tickfaw, LA USA Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330 Better still --> Now at CH 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 However, I'll give additional points to any board that doesn't use the 'Smiles'.Shoot, I was just about to "upgrade" our library of smilies. Nudge nudge. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitch1969 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 I think the point of te question here hs been lost. To help promote air density to the engine could one make the air scoop bigger? this is being asked in relation to engine performance not cooling therefore cowl exhaust is not relevant. "although if induction air is being taken from within the cowl a SMALL pressure increase may occur with a larger inlet and smaller exhaust from the cowl but mainly you'll just get buckets of extra drag" what you are wanting is "RAM AIR " induction or "POOR MANS TURBO " i have loked at length and did find a website for 13b powered aircraft using one although i can't find it again now! Im sure someone will correct me if im wrong but in essence a forward pointng scoop or vent colects air travelling towards it at the velocity the aircraft is travelling, this has to slow down as it has nowhere to go "untill the engine swallows it" thus it mus be compressed giving higher manifold pressures. I think a fairly long induction duct is required so that the pressure does't just back up and cause air to flow around the inlet causing unecessary drag!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deronjthomas Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 I wonder if the Cozy or Areocad is long enough, and (or) some place where you can mount it. I would imagine that it would need to be mounted as strait as possible to reduce the drag if any acures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitch1969 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I wish i could remember where i saw it done, it was on a renesis engine that had apeard underpowered probbly in part due to being a new "tight" engine the ram air scoop was about 20" long and a full 180 degree bend. a noteable increase in power was noted even at take off speeds. its also true that the previous induction route had been inefficient probably adding to the difference noted. I wll think and look hard to try and find the link for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitch1969 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Ok now i feel stupid, ive found the web site. Its not a cozy its Tracey Cook at rotary aviation see the link below http://www.rotaryaviation.com./renesis_engine.htm there is a good write up here more to do with the renesis than the ram air but think it would help you. for us pusher guy,s an armpit scoop may be the way to go!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I remember that back in the '70s or late '60s Mooney had a model called the Super 21. This aircraft ustilized an IO360 200 HP. What they did is have a control that would open the induction to the airstream just in back of the prop and bypasss the air filter. They claimed a 1 to 2" increase in MP at cruise. Not recommended was low altitude use of this option. Obviously the degredation of MP is a product of altitued as well as temperature. One of the nice things is that with increased altitude, true airspeed increases. Turbos are nice but they are more complex, involve more maintainence as the intake temperatures are severely increased and suck more fuel in an effort to keep the jugs cool. Whether or not they make sense in a particular installation depends on the mission of the aircraft. I believe that Mooney found, in one of their models that replacing the Turbo engine with a larger normally aspirated engine increased all of the good things and got rid of a lot of problems. Rich Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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