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This message is to those new users of this forum that are unfamiliar with the history of this forum and may wonder where all of the posters went that used to support and post to this forum.

 

Because of things that occurred to this forum, the people that supported it from the inception to a few months ago, left and went to a new forum. We are still there and are ready, willing and able to support any questions you have on building a canard/foam/fiberglass airplane.

 

The active members of that forum represent a large variety of builders and builder/flyers.

 

Jon, you seem to be a nice guy, but, this forum has effectively turned into your personal web page of you building your plane and builders new to glass and canard construction deserve better support than is here.

 

If someone has a question I highly recommend coming over to the new forum or joining Marc's very respected and supported mail list-serve

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/ for cozy mail list of Marc J. Zeitlin

http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/ for the forum where 99% of the previous people, and many new one's moved to.

 

If you read many threads started by me and contributed to by me, you will see that my desire is just to help newby's learn what plane and specifically foam and fiberglass building is all about. That is the spirit in which i am posting this thread to address. I am not telling you to dump this forum and never come back, i am saying that there is a large community in two other places that are there to support you on deciding what to build and answer your questions during the build.

 

Building a cozy is easy and fun and it takes a long time. And as always

 

enjoy the build

 

Dust

maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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As Dust is pointing out, there are several sources for information relating to Rutan-inspired canard aviation on the Internet, with this forum being one of them long-term.

 

Jon, you seem to be a nice guy...

Thank you.

 

but...

Ah, the "catch".

 

...this forum has effectively turned into your personal web page of you building your plane...

Posting a proud pic of my bulkheads does not make this my own site. Everyone is encouraged to post their own pics and anything to do with their own plane or project in the Progress Reports section. I wasn't going to publish it yet, but since I'm being called out, you can find my personal Web page here: http://www.canardzone.com/members/JonMatcho

 

...and builders new to glass and canard construction deserve better support than is here.

There's no point in throwing stones. This forum isn't necessarily a support site, and is certainly different than the CAI forum you setup, and Version 1.0 of this forum.

 

If someone has a question I highly recommend coming over to the new forum or joining Marc's very respected and supported mail list-serve

I would foremost recommend joining the Cozy Builders mail list for most everyone. Beyond that, you're on your own and free to do what you wish.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Hey Dusty!

 

You forgot something. You know, the tag at the end of your post that's supposed to say:" I'm Dust, and I approve of the preceding political advertisement."

 

Sheesh! I guess you think most "newbies" are pretty stupid.

"I run with scissors."

Cozy MKIV N85TT

Phase One Testing

http://home.earthlink.net/~jerskip

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Dust,

 

 

With all due respect...not really...What is your problem. What was the point of you post? . As Jon pointed out, this is just 1 resource for canard builders. If you don't like it... don't visit it.

 

I for one, am very appreciative of the hard work AND expense that Jon has put into this forum.

 

 

Go grind your Axe somewhere else.

 

John DiStefano

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Dust, you're welcome to join the discussion over here, and certainly reference posts on your forum. Just keep in mind that this isn't a one-way road. I wouldn't make a post like you did here on your forum, as I can only imagine the backlash. Please keep this in mind going forward.

 

The day that you guys broke off and started your own forum, I came to realize that if there are going to be 2 canard-related forums on the Internet, then I should be thinking about specialization as opposed to competition.

 

I was a 'newbie' once... wait... I still AM! My build has just started, but amazingly enough, I'm getting through it. Before I start every major part, I read as much information as possible. This includes all the sites you mentioned, and then some.

 

Let us move on and talk about canards. John, how about a shot or two of your project sitting in that brand new shop of yours? Jerry... I don't know what the magic formula is to coax posts out of you, but I read your site all the time. Everyone else, feel free to come in from the virtual cold and post anything you like...

 

Enjoy!

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Jerry... I don't know what the magic formula is to coax posts out of you, but I read your site all the time.

I guess I'm just not the "Forum" type of guy. When I spend time chatting on forums, I start feeling guilty about NOT spending that time building (or learning how to build). When I have a question (or feel competent to answer one), I generally post/reply. For the most part though, I don't enjoy the "chatter" I seem to see on most forums. With so many irons in the fire, I have to draw the "Spend Time " line somewhere, so I guess that's where I draw it. A lot of people seem to like this venue. That's cool too. But, I'm just partial to the mail list method.

 

What brought me out on this thread was Dust's derogatory statement re:this forum, cloaked in the guise of benevolence for "Newbies" (a term I dislike). I found his statement self-serving and insulting.

 

Glad you like the website.

"I run with scissors."

Cozy MKIV N85TT

Phase One Testing

http://home.earthlink.net/~jerskip

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The day that you guys broke off and started your own forum, I came to realize that if there are going to be 2 canard-related forums on the Internet, then I should be thinking about specialization as opposed to competition.

Enjoy!

See

http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/showthread.php?t=359

 

I have no axe to grind. I have a mission. My mission has been clear since the very first post i made. Support newby's in writing and in my shop, building an airplane from scratch/plans or a "kit" is an intimidating venture.

 

I don't have time to support them here and on the other forum or on the mail list and as a matter of fact, jon asked me to stop posting so much here when he took over the forum, well, I did.

 

I do stop by here and see new members and questions being asked and nary an answer coming forth. That was the reason for my post, i want prospective builders to see a LARGE active support network, and if you notice, i gave more support to marc's group than the other forum, it is, I believe, more active.

 

And hey jon, you didn't like version 1.0 of this forum, just download all of the posts and send them to me and i will put them on the other forum, no problem.

 

As always

 

Enjoy the build

 

Dust

maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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...as a matter of fact, jon asked me to stop posting so much here when he took over the forum, well, I did.

The topic at the time was to give others a chance to post as well. I never intended for you to stop posting altogether.

 

I do stop by here and see new members and questions being asked and nary an answer coming forth.

Throwing stones again, and your statement is just not true. If someone asks a question here, it will get a response and some guidance. I suppose unanswered posts are okay on your forum though, such as these:

And hey jon, you didn't like version 1.0 of this forum...

Here you go again throwing stones. Where and when did I ever say that I did not like this forum? Other members pointed out issues with its organization to me, such as all posts dumping into the Coffee House, and so I improved the overall structure.

 

...just download all of the posts and send them to me and i will put them on the other forum, no problem.

I tried to find an easy way to do this, but there is no such option in the software. Since you keep asking for this, I am inclined to go after the data directly via the database, but it's not something that ranks all that high on my list of things to do 'just for fun'.

 

I would have to agree w/John at this point... you are grinding an axe here, trying to disrupt things, and frankly, you're just not being canardly. At this point I suggest that you to take your mission back to your own forum and help us floundering 'newbies' over there.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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I follow both forums, it doesn't take much more effort to check 'NEW POSTS' for two sites than one. The support (official & otherwise) for my (planned) Cozy is incredible compared to other projects I have contemplated.

 

The Spencer Aircar website hasn't been updated for a decade, the holder of the plans hasn't answered a email for over a year and the yahoo group's traffic consists of a forlorn tool-tip monthly from the moderator. Initially I was concerned the "dark side" forum pinching traffic might make people on this forum think the same about canards, but I offer the following:

 

:) The ASS site (previously Nat's) carries links to this forum, Marc's mail list and the "dark side", so I don't think people would give up on a canard 'til they've tried them all. Multi-forums is hurting nobody.

 

:) A Google easily finds this forum and the dark side. And EZ Squadron.

 

:) Dust revealed in one of his 'editorial' posts (that used to sorta irritate Jon a bit) a desire to unite the world in one big forum covering everything. Erm, lets keep some diversity going please, one Bill Gates is enuf from you Septics.

 

:) The 'dark side' (& Marc's list) still flames like mad everytime somebody mentions car engines or retracts. Good. The Lycosaurus is just getting older and the alternatives are getting less alternative.

 

:) Jon suggests it would not be well recieved for him to duplicate Dust's post on the 'dark side'. I don't agree, they are a friendly and accepting bunch over there, I can't get Dust to bite even when I bait him. Give it a go, in the interests of diversity.

 

I don't have many questions at the moment, but will continue to post them to both forums until somebody objects.

Mark Spedding - Spodman
Darraweit Guim - Australia
Cozy IV #1331 -  Chapter 09
www.mykitlog.com/Spodman
www.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane

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I guess I'm a little different, i try to say the truth in a positive way. I have accepted all forums, mail lists and web sites.

 

What I have learned over the years is that the written activity on the forum will come from new bees, wanna bees, a few builders and fewer flyers. Lots of people will read the forum, few will post.

 

The reason is quite simple, once you start building a cozy you lose your fear of building and most of your desires to modify it, you just want to keep going and you are able to because the plans are so darn complete.

 

I have no axe to grind, started to use a mattock on roots, so now only have to file it to keep it sharp, no more chips from rocks in the ground.

 

Don't want the old posts, just made a funny about your statement on the forum when you took it over, as i had made a large number of the posts, in the beginning it was frustrating to "start over" but that feeling is long gone.

 

As always

 

Enjoy the build

 

Dust

maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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I follow both forums, it doesn't take much more effort to check 'NEW POSTS' for two sites than one.

I check in now and again as a guest over there, looking for project ideas...

 

:) Jon suggests it would not be well recieved for him to duplicate Dust's post on the 'dark side'. I don't agree, they are a friendly and accepting bunch over there, I can't get Dust to bite even when I bait him. Give it a go, in the interests of diversity.

I agree that there are many nice people over there -- I've met several in person and traded e-mails with many others.

 

I don't see this as a forum vs. forum thing, but I do feel this forum is better built, run, and managed. Because we do have freedom of choice here, in time the membership here will develop to give the Canard Zone Forums its own unique personality. Everyone is welcome to join the discussion, and give or take from this what you need to have fun in such an awesome hobby.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Some people like the threaded discussions, others like the way email maillists work. Some people like archives, others don't. The way I see it, whatever works for you, use it. No need to throw stones at what other people like.

 

What I have learned over the years is that the written activity on the forum will come from new bees, wanna bees, a few builders and fewer flyers.

Take a look at how the posts are treated. These forums each have a flavor, but predominately they are populated by builders, or potential builders, who have this mutual support society. When the flyers post 'don't worry about it, build it', they get trashed. I think that this is the thread where I really decided to significantly decrease my postings, somewhere around post 20:

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286

 

I really began to understand that a lot of people just want to talk, and aren't really interested in advice or opinions. They would like people to support their point of view, to help them justify or rationalize thier actions or activities. A number of people want others to view them as experts, or trailblazers, or sages. That they are the true innovators, or the true communicators, or the purveyors of the perfect King's English. Experts in spelling and punctuation, etiquette, netiquette, physics, philosophy, and fishsticks. Or at being half a bubble off with a sick sense of humor. A number of people are jealous of the respect that is shown to Rutan, or Nat, and to some of the other pioneers and experts in the field. Sometimes, when people aren't getting the attention or recognition that they feel the deserve, they go elsewhere.

 

After the thrashing that many have taken, I seriously question myself before every post that I actually respond to. First off, do I have any basis for providing a response to the question. Second, will someone else provide what I believe to be correct advice. Third will anything that I be worth the additional noise that I create. Most of the time I delete the responses before posting. I still respond to some questions, but most of the time it is a private response.

 

There is room in this universe for any number of mail lists, message boards, websites, fly-ins, gatherings, airshows, etc. We are not going to come to consensus on what is the best, what is justified, which ones should be avoided, which organization is the most beneficial, or who is the greatest aviator. But we can try to get along, be polite with each other, be open to other people's ideas and opinions, be accepting of other people's choices, and maybe be willing to accept that each of us could learn something from other builders (or flyers), and that maybe we don't have everything right ourselves. The more I see things being challenged, the less confidence I have in offering up my learnings, experience, or opinions.

 

I should delete this, but what the heck. There were some other elements in this thread that I was going to address, but right now it is more important that I put some primer on my plane where I did the repair work on those stupid hidden rudder horns.

 

-Norm

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What I have learned over the years is that the written activity on the forum will come from new bees, wanna bees, ...

Don't forget 'bumble bees' -- those that talk the talk, have opinions galore, know better than those down the road before them, and many will never actually begin their projects let alone finish them. The thing about bumble bees is that they look big and scary, make a big noise, but are actually quite harmless if you just leave them alone.

 

It's fine to hang out as a non-builder, but don't let yourself be a bumble bee -- get some plans, read them, and start building in your garage, basement, or spare room. Once you do that, you'll be a certified card-carrying builder with permission to have an opinion. Of course questions are tolerated prior to certification, just be sure to check your ego at the door. :)

 

I think that this is the thread where I really decided to significantly decrease my postings, somewhere around post 20:

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286

Posted Image I recall that thread, but I guess I stopped reading it just before it went careening out of control. I'm actually quite shocked -- if I saw it then I hope I would not have been too gunshy to say something. It takes a moment to realize that builders (people like me) are a dime/dozen, whereas flyers are worth quite a few bucks. Until you throw yourself into the process, you really don't have a feel for the scope of your own questions, or how applicable they are to the present time.

 

When the flyers post 'don't worry about it, build it', they get trashed.

I recall some of this way back, and some thought I was out of bounds to step in and say something about it. Maybe I was, but these flames are NOT here right now. Maybe this is part of the personality differences... to evolve further.

 

I really began to understand that a lot of people just want to talk, and aren't really interested in advice or opinions. They would like people to support their point of view, to help them justify or rationalize thier actions or activities. A number of people want others to view them as experts, or trailblazers, or sages. That they are the true innovators, or the true communicators, or the purveyors of the perfect King's English. Experts in spelling and punctuation, etiquette, netiquette, physics, philosophy, and fishsticks. Or at being half a bubble off with a sick sense of humor.

I'm not sure if you're describing bumble bees, or the required traits of a canard aircraft builder. I'll figure it out in a couple years I hope.

 

I should delete this, but what the heck.

Heck NO!!! Otherwise we wouldn't be left with this great summary of yours on what should be the mission statement of our 'club':

 

There is room in this universe for any number of mail lists, message boards, websites, fly-ins, gatherings, airshows, etc. We are not going to come to consensus on what is the best, what is justified, which ones should be avoided, which organization is the most beneficial, or who is the greatest aviator. But we can try to get along, be polite with each other, be open to other people's ideas and opinions, be accepting of other people's choices, and maybe be willing to accept that each of us could learn something from other builders (or flyers), and that maybe we don't have everything right ourselves.

Thanks Norm!

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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