Format and contents of Canardzone.com

[John Slade]

I think we're missing the point about Canardzone.com

 

Development Tools

I've never been much of a fan of code generation systems, but they ARE useful for rapid prototyping which is what Jon's doing right now. Once the layout has been developed its not much of a job to rewrite for generic browsers. However, Jon's right that 95% or more are using IE. Commercial development for the remaining 5% just doesnt make much sense any more. My advise to my clients is "tell you're users to get IE". The alternative is pay much more for the development.

 

Content

This is what I think we should be talking about. What do people think should be on the menu at Canard Zone? There's a new startup site called http://www.homebuiltaircraft.com with a bit of a commercial leaning which has some interesting ideas of what can go on the menu. Classified ads, last 10 forum posts, etc. etc. These guys are also going after sponsorship on the main page. Perhaps this is a reasonable approach - i.e. use it to help expansion, but keep it out of the discussion area.

 

Regarding Jon's initial screen - I don't think the Starship image is right. Pretty, but off topic. This should be a Cozy IV which represents the majority of new build canards.

 

Direction

I guess the question becomes - where do we want this canard thing to go? There are too many places to monitor right now, too much duplication and too much dissemination of email addresses. Cozy list, canard aviators, various engine lists, aeroelectric list etc. etc. I'd like to see a gradual movement towards finding it all in one place. CanardZone with its superior forum technology can be that place.

 

Jon. Thanks for your continued efforts on our behalf.

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by John Slade

I've never been much of a fan of code generation systems, but they ARE useful for rapid prototyping which is what Jon's doing right now. Once the layout has been developed its not much of a job to rewrite for generic browsers.

No offense here John, but I'm a huge fan of writing computer programs to write more computer programs. The tool is entirely extensible, but has not yet been extended to support all Web browsers. It's also not so much a code generator I'm using though, than a Web site manager. For the curious, you can find more about it here.

 

Originally posted by John Slade

Content... This is what I think we should be talking about.

I agree. With regard to content, I feel priority #1 is to enhance the forum hierarchy so that posts happen in more appropriate areas so that the weight of our collective knowledge base becomes ever so valuable. Going forward, there's nothing that cannot be done given time and money.

 

Originally posted by John Slade

What do people think should be on the menu at Canard Zone?

I am all ears.

 

Originally posted by John Slade

I don't think the Starship image is right [for the home page]. Pretty, but off topic. This should be a Cozy IV which represents the majority of new build canards.

Hmmm, I agree that we should cater to Cozys, Longs, and others, but what better way to get the juices flowing than to be taunted to sand some Starship-like lines into your Cozy project?

 

Originally posted by John Slade

I'd like to see a gradual movement towards finding it all in one place. CanardZone with its superior forum technology can be that place.

It would actually be nice to have list e-mails feed in and through the forums and give members the choice of how they wish to interact with the forum. This would be quite a feat, but something to move towards... gradually.

 

Thanks for your feedback John, et al.

[dust]

I will not waste my time going all over for information, if it ain't here or linced from here, i'll figure it out. I am also trying to make here a place where info can be had.

 

the problem with text resources is one of finding the good info, because, until you read it, you don't know that you needed to read it. For example, i posted a method of snapping the wing jigs together, no one will find it. Johns poor mans vacuum/ 4mil plastic layup method, btw, i've thought about it and ifin i started today, i would definatly use it, who is going to find it now or in a year??

 

For example, this forum has done a great job of limiting conversation on kevlar, carbon fiber because a search on those items brings up a relatively few posts.

 

but, don't try a search on most any other items, such as tools etc., too many hits to bother with.

 

tools 46 hits

hinge 20 hist

hinges 17 hits

fuel 126 hits

fuel tanks 30 hits

antenna* 15 hits

strake 32 hits

 

So, the searching just doesn't work well for most problems

 

for long term health of the forum posts need to be rated or categorized or moved to relevent, easily searchable areas.

 

 

enjoy the build

 

Mike

[marbleturtle]

I think the archive could be useful if all of the "junk" is tossed. I certainly do my share of shooting the breeze on the forum, but if someone must search through anything and everything to find what they are looking for, the archive becomes useless.

 

The aerobatics thread is a good example. If everything but the final threads posted by Wayne Hicks are thrown out, it's useful. If everything is kept, no one would bother reading through all the BS before getting to the 5th page where the REALLY good information is located.

 

Someone running the forum needs to review what is kept and what is tossed. Otherwise we as posters would need to have some sort of checkbox to indicate whether or not our thread reply is to be archived... hoping that everyone would use it properly.

 

My $0.02

[John Slade]

>I'm a huge fan of writing computer programs to write more computer programs.

Me too. I've been developing them for years. Just don't like using them, especially early versions.

 

>what better way to get the juices flowing than to be taunted to

>sand some Starship-like lines into your Cozy project?

Sure. Have some starship pictures somewhere, but not on the index page. Personally I like the picture we have. That's what I'm building, and to see it flying (animate it?) every time I visit is good focused inspiration. There's a thought. How about a section with video of a Cozy ride for those who arn't bandwith challenged?

 

>checkbox to indicate whether or not our thread reply is to be archived...

Good idea. Perhaps the checked messages could be purged at quarterly intervals.

[dust]

well, the problem is deciding that your post should be kept, it may be hard for many to not check the box to toss.

 

If it wasn't, many more would post instead of lurking.

 

i think 3 or 4 regulars should make the decision.

 

Now saying i would volunteer to be a regular is like checking a box to keep your own post, easier to say pitch it.

 

ok, pitch this one

 

enjoy the build

 

Mike

[dust]

Ok, case in point, I revived the plastic peel ply thread for people to take notice of, it should be a staple for those new to the group, and notice it is getting questions, more points than when john wrote it.

 

we probable have 40 or 50 of these threads that need to be highlighted

 

I noticed one of the newby's asking allot of good questions last week and wanting to know allot of good stuff fast, the info was here, he just didn't know what to look for or what to ask. We talked about a half an hour and he may drive all the way accros the country for plane day, that would break hanks record of iowa to michigan, twice. I pointed him to a coupla of threads, minimum tools, etc that are targeted to newby's and he enjoyed them.

 

enjoy the build

 

mike

[dust]

anothe reson searchs dont wrk, mny hear cant spel

 

enjoy the build

 

mike

[No4]

Fair points Dust,

I was picked out for not sticking to the thread, after two posts previously saying we all should.

I see you want this site to grow, and the archives to become worthwile, so I wonder why you post the word "Turbo" fifty times in reply to a question, "Just start building now" fifty times in response to another; when were having a technical discussion about your ignition system, you cracked a sad on because it wasn't what you wanted to hear, and posted what I thought was quite rude and childish; and even the Dog Ox thread almost turned into "How fast is my Cozy going to be?"

 

No offense is implied, I really enjoy your input to the forum, but as Jesus said "take the plank out of your own eye before looking for the speck in anothers"

[dust]

I was throwing stones at myself, i don't know how to spell, never have, never will, it's not in the genes.

 

on the start building now fifty times, isn't that what all of the other posts said, he he he

 

It is my humble opinion that un moderated archives simply won't work, unless you know the answer, you can't ask the question.

 

I also try to hold my tongue in the tech posts versus the coffee shop, i know you can find plenty of examples where that didn't happen, but you can also find places that i moved my part of the conversation to or from there

 

on the How fast can the cozy go from ox, sorry, couldn't help but to ask it as I want to know.

 

the reason i used ox is i would probably mispell the whole word

 

you cracked a sad on because it wasn't what you wanted to hear

 

no the sad on was on one side i had the rotary guys yelling rotory and the other side was the certificated guys saying only cert is good.

 

I am trying to keep my mind open to both change and not change, and, do the best i can.

 

enjoy the build

 

mike

[No4]

Fair play to you Dust,

Surely the search engine checks all entries, so something like "Turbo" is pretty much ruined.

I understand your frustration with the rotary/auto/certified debate; it's your decision, your engine, so best of luck.

 

I agree the archives are difficult to maintain, and was wondering if the sticky threads were to be used, then the moderator(s) could cut and paste any useful info into those threads.

 

How fast will your Cozy go on OX? I've done some calculations and will be willing to share. Perhaps a new thread? I need some time to prepare my Kevlar underpants, missile jamming radar, and power up the front deflector shield.

 

Best regards

Adam

[cncdoc]

I guess I will have to trust the "powers that be" to do what is best for the Forum.

I find it quite entertaining at times.

 

Perhaps someone starting a thread in the coffee house (topic) could be moved eventually to the proper "bracket" for future search purposes. Some could easily make it to the trash can. Either way, I have an airplane to build and I won't be able to participate as often in these forums. So, do what you must, but don't take away my coffee (house)!!

 

Oh, and one more thing: I use Netscape 7.1. IE 6.0 came with the new computer. It's like certain forms of birth control, I hate it, but I'll use it if I have to......

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Kevin

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by cncdoc

I use Netscape 7.1. IE 6.0 came with the new computer. It's like certain forms of birth control, I hate it, but I'll use it if I have to......

These forums are viewable using just about any browser. The main www.canardzone.com site is not. However, I have met with the development team and that too will eventually support all browsers.

Originally posted by No4 (commenting on a post by dust)

...I wonder why you post the word "Turbo" fifty times in reply to a question, "Just start building now" fifty times in response to another...

Speaking as someone looking for valuable information among the less-than-valuable, "ditto".

Originally posted by dust

on the start building now fifty times, isn't that what all of the other posts said, he he he

All? No. Some suggested to setup a proper shop first. Those that did share the thought to begin building now did so in an informative and useful manner.

Originally posted by marbleturtle

I think the archive could be useful if all of the "junk" is tossed.

Maybe. A thought I have for the new forum hierarchy is to move all threads in the current 'Coffee House' to a 'Coffee House 2003' forum, close it, and start a new 'Coffee House'. Then again, this may prove to be a waste of time. Junk in any forum outside of the Coffee House should just not be, and I hope this all can be self-policing. If it's not, we'll have to moderate. Moderation is a royal PITA and ideally not the answer. I am leaning towards removing the anonymous factor to the membership. You can see that some of the "fights" and noise here is directly related to anonymous members. In order to access all forum areas in the future, you may need to provide your real name.

 

On the lighter side...

 

Originally posted by No4

Best regards

Adam

Ah ha! You do have a name!

 

Originally posted by cncdoc

I use Netscape 7.1. IE 6.0 came with the new computer. It's like certain forms of birth control, I hate it, but I'll use it if I have to......

CnC, I'm not picking on you (I am picking on the anti-Microsoft and Bill Gates haters), but unless you got into your car and drove to the nearest "Netscape store", you can thank Microsoft IE 6.0 for saving you time by allowing you to browse to Netscape and download yet-another-browser onto your Microsoft-enabled computer.

 

Have a day.

[No4]

"I am leaning towards removing the anonymous factor to the membership. You can see that some of the "fights" and noise here is directly related to anonymous members. In order to access all forum areas in the future, you may need to provide your real name."

 

Hallo Jon, If I'm one of your damned offenders you can tell me, it's alright, I've got a hide like a rhino.

 

Yes I have a name, it's Adam John Sparkes, or "Sparkesy"

age 32

Born Edgeware, London, England

previous resident of England, Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa, Australia, and the Cook Islands. Currently in New Zealand, hoping to move to Fiji.

 

OK?

 

I've tried to change my signature, but it doesn't seem to work yet, maybe this time.

 

I can't realy see what name I or anyone uses matters, We will still make the same posts, and how do you know we are not just making up names????

 

By the way No4 is what is on the back of my Rugby jersey, but I wouldn't expect you Phillistines to understand much about that.

Did you know we English are World Champions?

[dust]

No4

 

leave it alone, whats in a name, some earlier made a post about that and i added my name, It has made no diference in my posts. I'm a dusty kind of guy and you is a No4.

 

Your posts are clear and can be tacken as they are written, wether we know your name or not!!!

 

Have I changed my tone or info level since I let it out that Dust is not my real name and exposed it?????

 

I am here for very simple reasons.

 

People are afraid of taking on a big project, I try to be supportive

 

People are intimitaded by building a plane from a kit ot plans - I try to get rid of the fear, to be honest, i think opening our shop is the very best way

 

Misinformation - Common thoughts are wrong, kits are faster than plans built, Modifications are easy, etc. etc.

 

The other problem is that i see very technical conversations going on here, and that is good, but a new builder or wanna builder may think they should understand this stuff to be able to build the plane, i try to dispell this common extention of what is read.

 

I see allot of other problems and I will work to improve them where I can. The cozy is a fantastic plane, nat did a wonderful job of designing it, oh thats right burt designed the wings, it is great stuff and go build the plane, or what ever strikes YOUR fance, because that might make you part of the 20% instead of the 80%. In plane building you want to be part of the minority, the ones that finish, i wear hats and can actually do that

 

enjoy the build, and I'll always think of you as IV

 

Mike

[Joe Patterson]

I just jumped in this forum recently, uninvited I might add, looking for people to ask questions of.........I started by "Lurking" as one would do in a chat room. When I noticed that "real information" was being exchanged I "joined".

 

It seems to me a chat room would be nice, there are times I want to say "nothing kind of things", Like ...."Howdy gents, did y'all have a good day building"....................and I have noticed others seem to like "BS'ing" too. Maybe someone could dig through the chat garbage, and glean something useful out of it to post on a thread later........but much of it could be tossed...............and as for anything I have posted to date ALL OF IT COULD BE TOSSED.

 

When I seach for information in this forum, (Let's say "Rotary" Engines) I get a bunch of useless "Threads", but after reading through them I find a good deal of necessary knowledge.

 

My hat is off to whoever manages and maintains this forum.

 

I AM SO EAGER TO LEARN, I WILL READ THROUGH ALL SORT OF STUFF.

 

Feel free to toss this too. And again, Thanks to all who have contributed to this forum.

[Jim Sower]

Lots of interesting chatter. Many posts produce more heat than light. Nearly all have some "current" value - contribute something to the immediate conversation - but many have little if any long term value.

 

What if there was a button one could select while composing a message that would flag it for archive while the default would limit the life of that particular post to a couple of months? Might keep the archives managable - prevent them from being too cluttered up with banter. I think lots of people (notably me) would just as soon not always be speaking for the record - the current audience, the current conversation would suit me fine most of the time.

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by NativeSpirit

Can someone as new as me have an opinion????

If the top poster can talk about freezing pilot and dog at 25,000 feet unpressurized, you are hereby authorized to post your opinions (not that you needed my permission anyway).

 

Originally posted by No4

I can't realy see what name I or anyone uses matters, We will still make the same posts, and how do you know we are not just making up names????

From frequent and firsthand personal experience, I know that those that are able to write e-mails to others under any layer of anonymity tend to do so with a more aggressive edge. Do a search on 'hate mail' or 'flame mail' and you'll find out what I'm talking about.

 

This forum is not about advertising or mining any sort of information out of its members. It's about the exchange of real world ideas, knowledge, and opinions. On the other side of this coin is the membership, which, in my opinion, has no reason at all to be any sort of anonymous. Understand that we're not talking about privacy -- this forum respects that and allows members to keep your e-mail address private along with not giving information out to anyone.

 

Originally posted by NativeSpirit

It seems to me a chat room would be nice, there are times I want to say "nothing kind of things", Like ...."Howdy gents, did y'all have a good day building"... ...ALL OF IT COULD BE TOSSED.

A chat room is an excellent idea. A realtime chat room would be ideal, but minimally I will add 'Chat Room' to the new forum hierarchy (or is this what the current 'Coffee House' already is?).

 

My objective for this forum is to keep things informative, useful, and fun for my own build this coming year.

 

Originally posted by Jim Sower

Might keep the archives managable - prevent them from being too cluttered up with banter.

A little banter should be okay -- it gives this forum its personality. Maybe we can have an understood Banter Tolerance Factor for forum sections. Coffee House would be high while others should be down to business.

 

Originally posted by Jim Sower

Did you know we English are World Champions?

Hooligans, the lot of you!

[No4]

"Originally posted by Jim Sower

Did you know we English are World Champions?

Hooligans, the lot of you! "

 

No that was me, Jim's a good ole boy from the south.

 

Hooligans are the Association Football fans, that's soccer to you.

 

They say that soccer is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans, and that rugby is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen.

 

 

After some thought on the matter, I personaly would like to see forum remain as it is. If I can't find what I want from a search, I'll just ask. Too easy.

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by No4

No that was me, Jim's a good ole boy from the south.

My bad -- too much copying and pasting.

 

BTW, does anyone see a 'Rate this Thread' choice at the bottom-right corner when reading threads? I could look into make that becoming useful.

[marbleturtle]

Jon,

 

I tried to change MarbleTurtle to Napoleon Bonapart, but I couldn't resolve how to do it! Until I can change my alias to my real name, I will continue to insite fisticuffs and generally question the manhood of all to fail proclaim me Grandpoohbah of all things relevant!

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by marbleturtle

I tried to change MarbleTurtle to Napoleon Bonapart, but I couldn't resolve how to do it!

Only the forum administrator (me) can change your user name. This is exactly what the admin here did for me when I joined as 'jon'.

 

I now suggest one of 2 options:

 

#1 - have me change your user name to your real name

#2 - keep your user name as-is, and just add your real name to your signature

 

Send a mail to support@canardzone.com if you want your user name changed. Everyone, it's time to come out of the shadows of anonymity. While there are no active plans for moderation or censorship, there are considerations to setup to allow only authenticated users the ability to post into sections beyond the Coffee House. This is just a thought right now. Aside from improving the forum hierarchy, nothing else is underway to change the current forum setup. I will definitely solicit feedback before such a change would occur.

[dust]

Hey, mt i sugest you leave it as it is, i like marbleturtle.

 

what do you know, a new way to spell cencorship = considerations

 

enjoy the build

 

Mike

[Joe Patterson]

Originally posted by marbleturtle

I tried to change MarbleTurtle to Napoleon Bonapart, but I couldn't resolve how to do it!

 

Hey, Marble Bonapart.....You could join as a "Newbie" under that new alias, and just act like you have never been here.

 

and soooooooooooo much would be forgiven.

[John Slade]

>just act like you have never been here. And we would know the difference.... how?

>and soooooooooooo much would be forgiven.

 

Good to see that newbies are reading the archives.