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Changing Forum Hierarchy


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I am planning on making some improvements to the structure of the forum categories in the coming weeks. We need to get ourselves out of the Coffee House and posting into relevant areas of the forum. This is the only way to build a useful knowledge base.

 

I put together a proposed hierarchy which can be viewed here.

 

Please review and send me your comments so that I may incorporate into the plan. Note that no thread or message will be lost with this activity -- all posts will be moved into the new hierarchy.

 

I would also like to use this time as an opportunity to put some sheen on the look and feel of these forums with some enhanced graphics, etc., yet keeping it 'down-to-business'.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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John I appreciate your time and effort to improve the forum as it is an important tool for sharing ideas and for fellow canard builders.

 

The new format looks great!

 

One thought I had would be to sort the members list by state as well alpha. Many times I see builders looking for local help. I for one would be grateful to find a local support for my project.

 

Keep up the good work. :)

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Looks good Jon,

 

I agree a lot of information is getting lost in the Coffee House. I'm probably more guilty than anyone, but threads which have started about say, the "Starship" ended up being a discussion on retractable gear, one on brakes ended as a discussion on props, and so on.

Furthermore, some people don't seem to see eye to eye, and a few threads with some very interesting technical information have degenerated into several pages of bitching.

 

Firstly I suggest we all try to sticking to the thread, and think we should agree that if the conversation changes topic, we move to that thread.

 

Secondly I suggest we try to keep it technical and not try and get too emotional with our posts, but if someone feels strongly about something, fair enough. But in the instance of just two members having a go at each other over two pages of a thread, I think perhaps they should be encouraged to PM each other. God knows what anyone searching the archive might think!

 

I subscribe to another Vbulletin forum, which is heavily moderated, whilst in no way am I suggesting you should delete or edit posts, I wonder how the members here would consider "partial" moderation.

If a thread is started in the wrong topic section, it is moved to the correct section, but still appears in the old topic section with MOVED ... Clicking on this link takes you to the correct section.

Secondly, in each topic they have a "STICKY" thread or two, which always remains as the top thread in that topic. In here they have useful website references, useful information, and rules of engagement in this thread. Things like the CAFE report, links to Infinity gear, engine suplliers, maybe a brief paragraph with some basic information, links to aerodynamics websites etc etc. There seem to be a lot of frequently asked questions.

 

 

Best Wishes to all the members, and I thank you for your posts. I just can't describe how much I have learn't from this forum and your personal websites. I can't wait to get started!

Cheers

 

:D

The Coconut King

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i would love to see things MOVED.

 

the chapter instructions are very very important to keep relevent info available

 

i would like to see the coffee house threads reviewed and SOME of them moved for eas of newby finding, like into a FAQ section

 

I went to the proposal and basically didn't see anything

 

shouldn't this be in the forum tips section?? he he he

 

enjoy the build

 

mike

maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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Jon,

I agree with Dust and No4 that posts in the Coffee House, etc. that belong somewhere else be moved there and an appropriate forwarding button left in the old location. Perhaps a review of some of the more significant threads (whatever that might mean):) would suggest a few new categories and/or subcategories.

 

I went to the new site and got nothing useful. No links that went anyplace, and a number of those little things in the upper left corner that mean there's supposed to be an image here but it isnt. What was it supposed to look like? I have Netscape 4.77

...Destiny's Plaything...

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Originally posted by Jim Sower

I went to the new site and got nothing useful. No links that went anyplace, and a number of those little things in the upper left corner that mean there's supposed to be an image here but it isnt. What was it supposed to look like? I have Netscape 4.77

The www.canardzone.com site is new and improved, but unfortunately only Microsoft Internet Explorer Version 5.5 or higher is supported. IE 5.0 also works, but not gracefully. The reason for this is that I am using a Web development tool built by Brickhouse Software that is tuned for Microsoft-based sites/intranets.

 

We are aware of this limitation and can offer the following options:

 

1) Wait until Brickhouse enhances the tool/site (www.canardzone.com) to support non-Microsoft browsers. This will take time and money.

2) Install/upgrade to Internet Explorer Version 6.0 for FREE.

3) Do not view the site.

 

My recommendation would be to upgrade to IE 6.0. Unless you're running Linux, you should already have a version of IE installed. Personally, with the integration of Windows+IE+Office, I wouldn't consider anything else for my own use at this point. I'd be happy to continue this discussion in a separate thread if you like.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Originally posted by Jon Matcho

The www.canardzone.com site is new and improved, but unfortunately only Microsoft Internet Explorer Version 5.5 or higher is supported....

Hmmmm! I tried the url on Explorer 6.0 and got the same result. Is there possibly something in my setup that might cause all the images to come out little boxes with 'x' inside? I really REALLY need for this thing to work.

...Destiny's Plaything...

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I've been viewing this forum since day one on Mozilla and Firebird under Linux. It has always worked just fine. The new site looks like garbage under Firebird.

 

Part of my real life is working on web sites. I'm a big proponent of standards and nothing annoys me more than sites and tools that seem to only support Micro$oft browsers.

 

Please do not change this site so that it stops working for a lot of people.

 

I'm all for "cleaning" up the threads but the use of a new, non-standard tool is far from ideal.

 

Please read this message with a tone of suggestion. I just re-read this and I can see that it can be read like I'm mad - I'm not. Just offering my opinion.

 

Enjoy.

Rick Maddy

Denver, CO

Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 18

http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy

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For what it's worth, making the site MSE 5.5+ only, will make it almost inaccessable to me, and I suspect many others. Of course, with the access logs, you already have a better idea than me who would be alienated.

 

If it is the main site, I guess it wouldn't matter to me, but if the change affects the forum, I would be pretty diassappointed.

 

Matt

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I'm a bit confused as to the problem.

Are peole having a trouble with viewing the forum, or is it the canardzone.com website?

Is the forum going to change appearance?

 

Anybody any good with viruses? I think I have one in my laptop.

Thanks

 

:)

The Coconut King

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Everyone, the only area that some people are having problems with is the main Web site (www.canardzone.com) and NOT these forums. There are two different softwares at work here, and the forums has and will not change.

 

The forum will not be changed to prevent access by anyone. The Canard Zone Web site is a problem unless browsing with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 or higher.

 

The issue here is that I donated time and money to make the www.canardzone.com Web site happen. It has been optional viewing, perhaps until now.

 

ON-TOPIC Replies

 

Originally posted by No4

One thought I had would be to sort the members list by state as well alpha.

I put this on the list of things to pursue.

 

Originally posted by LargePrime

How about a "Brand new to this and I was wondering section about..."

How is a 'Just Getting Started' section? Is that what you mean?

 

Originally posted by LargePrime

Do you see us discussing improvments to the plans or kits in the relivant areas, or all under skunkworks?

Depending on the improvement, it should either go under skunkworks or perhaps a Modifications section closer to the type-specific tree.

 

Originally posted by No4

Firstly I suggest we all try to sticking to the thread, and think we should agree that if the conversation changes topic, we move to that thread.

later...

Anybody any good with viruses? I think I have one in my laptop.

Without any moderators, we will all have to try harder with keeping to topic.

 

Originally posted by No4

If a thread is started in the wrong topic section, it is moved to the correct section, but still appears in the old topic section with MOVED ... Clicking on this link takes you to the correct section.

This is a worthwhile consideration, but realize that it requires that we allow moderators to do this and whatever else they're enabled to do by vBulletin with the 'Moderator' privilege. This could result in a problem that's worse than the original. Given our relatively small membership, I am against this for right now, but it is on the list of considerations.

 

Originally posted by No4

...in each topic they have a "STICKY" thread or two, which always remains as the top thread in that topic.

Yes, very good to use 'sticky' threads where appropriate. They are not used here presently. I will include on the list.

 

Originally posted by rmaddy

Please do not change this site so that it stops working for a lot of people.

I'm all for "cleaning" up the threads but the use of a new, non-standard tool is far from ideal.

We are talking about the www.canardzone.com Web site, and not the forums as powered by vBulletin.

 

Less-than-ON TOPIC Replies

 

Originally posted by dust

I don't use any microsoft product i am not FORCED to use

Were you forced to turn on your computer or did you choose to? With the options available today, you do not need to use anything Microsoft, but be prepared to pay AT LEAST triple in money and time.

 

Originally posted by Jim Sower

Hmmmm! I tried the url on Explorer 6.0 and got the same result. Is there possibly something in my setup that might cause all the images to come out little boxes with 'x' inside?

I cannot figure this one out Jim; this should just not be. I will contact you in a separate e-mail on possible solutions.

 

Originally posted by rmaddy

Part of my real life is working on web sites. I'm a big proponent of standards and nothing annoys me more than sites and tools that seem to only support Micro$oft browsers.

Every moment of my working life is building corporate Web applications. My deployments consist of 1,000-10,000 domestic and international users at a pop, sometimes on multiple continents speaking different languages. I am keenly aware of the standards of technology at large, my customers, and that of 95% of my potential corporate customers -- they're all running Windows.

 

Originally posted by rmaddy

...Micro$oft...

Last I checked, Microsoft-based computers are unbelievably inexpensive ($350 @ Dell). If anyone would like to debate this topic on another thread, I will be happy to tear notions of 'Micro$oft' as villian or Linux as an ROI advantage to shreds.

 

Everyone, I will continue to work to get the www.canardzone.com Web site viewable for those that do not use Internet Explorer. This will take some further investment on my part, so right now you have the choice of using IE to see the content over there.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Originally posted by dust

...my mac runs just fine

Ha, I guessed wrong on that one. I suppose it doesn't count though that Microsoft owns $150M worth of Apple though? I did view the site using IE running on Apple's OS and it was viewable, although not perfect.

 

Originally posted by dust

Why can't I access it on Netscape 4.77 *OR* Explorer 6.0 ??? What am I missing?

The problem is that all browsers, no matter how supportive of open standards they claim to be, do take some amount of liberty in how they implement those standards. You will always see differences in how a site views between different browsers. The result is that Web sites are often forced to effectively maintain multiple versions and implementations so that the site renders on all browsers. This results in increased costs to maintain sites.

 

I am not about to petition any anti-Microsoft person to switch to Internet Explorer. I do acknowledge that the main www.canardzone.com site is only viewable using Internet Explorer. I recognized this as acceptable for most (but not all) going in, and wondered when it would come to a head. This situation gives me some motivation to have development at Brickhouse Software open up to supporting other browsers.

 

I promise that I will look for easy adjustments that can be made so that the site is viewable by everyone, even if not as pretty as when viewed in Internet Explorer. Remember, the forums should have no problem whatsoever.

 

Please keep in mind that this service is FREE... :)

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Originally posted by Jon Matcho

Ha, I guessed wrong on that one. I suppose it doesn't count though that Microsoft owns $150M worth of Apple though? I did view the site using IE running on Apple's OS and it was viewable, although not perfect.

 

I think gates thinks it is a good investment so he can keep on trying to make a good copy of something that works and i will NOT use IE

 

The problem is that all browsers, no matter how supportive of open standards they claim to be, do take some amount of liberty in how they implement those standards. You will always see differences in how a site views between different browsers. The result is that Web sites are often forced to effectively maintain multiple versions and implementations so that the site renders on all browsers. This results in increased costs to maintain sites.

 

I am not about to petition any anti-Microsoft person to switch to Internet Explorer. I do acknowledge that the main www.canardzone.com site is only viewable using Internet Explorer. I recognized this as acceptable for most (but not all) going in, and wondered when it would come to a head. This situation gives me some motivation to have development at Brickhouse Software open up to supporting other browsers.

 

I promise that I will look for easy adjustments that can be made so that the site is viewable by everyone, even if not as pretty as when viewed in Internet Explorer. Remember, the forums should have no problem whatsoever.

 

also jim sower made the second comment

 

Please keep in mind that this service is FREE... :)

 

I did offer to pay for it and others offered to manage it

 

Microsoft has no respect for it's users

 

1988 started using excell

MS wrote it wrong and put a limit on memory, took until version 3 to fix it

 

had a macro language that they got rid of with version 4 or 5, hello i had 1000 line long macros that could no longer be used

 

version 4 cannot open version 1 excell files, so i have to keep version 3 on my machines so that if i go to my archive of thousands of files, i can still open them

 

version 2000 or whatever it is called decided to get rid of all standard keyboard shortcuts that i have been using since 1988.

 

i could make a list og bugs, but those happen to all, this is just disregard for customers

 

I won't do business with a tire dealer that treats me this poorly, let alone a software supplier

 

enjoy the build

 

Mike

maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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<-- MCSE, MCSD, MCP+I, MCDBA... but believe it or not, I'm not a HUGE fan of Microsoft. :P

 

Its just a matter of following the path of least resistance. 95%+ browsers are IE so it is not worth the extra time to develop for other browsers... especially since IE is free. Apple is the BetaMax of the VCR world. And if Apple would quit giving Steve Jobs a new jet or multi-million bonus when he comes up with something new, maybe he would stick around and develop enough products to present a serious challenge to the big M.

 

Linux... pppbbbthththth! Open source code is a disaster waiting to happen when it comes to security. So that leaves a few million of us goose stepping to the tune of Microsoft until something better actually comes along. :rolleyes:

 

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/success/peters.asp

This ain't rocket surgery!

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Linux... pppbbbthththth! Open source code is a disaster waiting to happen when it comes to security

As apposed to Microsoft which already is a disaster when it comes to security. :)

 

Open source, while not perfect, has a much better record with security and it gets fixed much faster if a problem is found. Letting people see the source code gives it a much better chance of being correct since knowlegeable people are able to verify its correctness.

 

95%+ browsers are IE so it is not worth the extra time to develop for other browsers... especially since IE is free.

 

Most browsers are free such as Mozilla/Firebird. And these browsers work on most platforms, unlike IE, and are far more standards compliant than IE will ever be. It is much easier to write a standard web page that will work on more browsers than just IE. It doesn't take extra time to develop for extra browsers if you use standards. It takes extra time to code to IE specific functionality.

Rick Maddy

Denver, CO

Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 18

http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy

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Originally posted by rmaddy

As apposed to Microsoft which already is a disaster when it comes to security.

If you were watching TV and heard someone trying to jimmy your back door open, here's the order of things you'd get upset with:

 

1) the jerk at the door

2) the brand of door for exposing a flaw

3) the majority shareholder of the door company

 

Hackers are criminals.

 

Linux has security flaws, so does the Mac, and so does Microsoft -- they all do. Microsoft just happens to be the most attacked and written about.

 

Originally posted by rmaddy

Open source, while not perfect, has a much better record with security and it gets fixed much faster if a problem is found.

Assuming you're talking about open source Linux vs. Windows 2000+, I would have to disagree. Over the past two years, I have seen Microsoft turnaround fixes to security threats within the same day as when they had been reported. Other fixes require no more than 1-2 days to distribute via their www.windowsupdate.com site.

 

Originally posted by rmaddy

It is much easier to write a standard web page that will work on more browsers than just IE. It doesn't take extra time to develop for extra browsers if you use standards. It takes extra time to code to IE specific functionality.

I hear what you're saying, but once you use the equivalent of a power tool, it's hard to put it down -- especially when you get more done through its use.

 

Regardless, I acknowledge the need to support the common denominator for Web browsing and will see what I can do to accomodate. Your site works for me, and I want www.canardzone.com to work for everyone.

 

Still, this light-hearted flash movie sums up my feelings for Linux: Switch to Linux :D

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Browse to http://www.canardzone.com/?Section=ProposedHierarchy for updates including feedback from this thread.

 

For those that do not have Internet Explorer, you can download a RTF file here.

 

Thanks to all who contributed feedback this round.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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