Shop setup

[tu54]

I'm in my shop this weekend continuing work on the tables, I'm really bent on getting flat untwisted tables.

 

I liked the idea of using those wooden I-beans from the lumber store but the mizer in me stood in the way. And I wondered how truely straight they would be. So I'm making my own while re-thinking the time/money tradeoff. I'll have 2 tables that I can disassemble and put on a moving truck.

 

Last weekend I obtained lots of nice clean white sand from Pensecola beach for use in making weights. I'll omit the fishing story. I've already made and used a couple weights fashioned from the legs of old blue jeans. I cut the legs off, sewed the ends and filled with sand, not precisely in that order. They probably weigh 25-30 lbs each.

 

Earlier I make a number of 1pound lead weights from a Discount Tire raid after seeing Norm Muzzy's in his "fuselage sides" pics. I've used these a number of times and wished I had more.

 

Just to my right elbow is my linux server which begs for attention to get Apache re-installed and connected to the Linksys router. Then I could waste valuable construction time on a web-site. But it looks like this new cable company sees the router and refuses to talk thru it. Maybe after I return this evening I'll put some time on it.

 

Off to the shop

[Norm M]

I picked up 100 pounds of lead from one of the salvage yards a couple weeks ago. Mostly flashing from roofs, some pipe. Also picked up a cast aluminum pot (I think it was the pressure pot from a paint spraying rig, probably a three gallon pot) to melt the lead in. Used a burner (I think from a furnace) on a propane tank to provide the heat. Melted down the lead, and skimmed off the dirt, steel, and other crud. Cast the molten lead into pop cans to make ballast chunks.

 

These turned out to be 9 pounds each, and are easy to handle, but tend to roll around. Melted down some more lead and cast it into some cheap bread loaf pans. These make great ingots for ballast.

 

For building purposes, I would use a cupcake pan, and put about an half inch or so of lead in each one. These work great for weighting down a piece, or holding something snug.

 

I'm thinking about getting another 200 pounds of lead for casting, just because it is fun to cast and useful to have those weights available. Also, for gross weight testing, I would rather have big chunks of lead rather than sand bags. If you break a sandbag, it is a pain to get it all cleaned out.

 

I paid $0.20 per pound for the salvage lead, and had better than 90% yield. There is a fair amount of dirt and crud on the salvage lead.

 

Regards-

Norm Muzzy

[Jim Sower]

<... I paid $0.20 per pound for the salvage lead, ...>

Where can you get lead for that price? I looked and looked and couldn't find any at ANY price. Finally got maybe 20# from a tire dealer.

Inquiring minds need to know ... Jim S.

[Dave Clifford]

We used clean pea gravel in heavy blue jean type material bags sewn shut. I made several each in 3 and 6 pound sizes. They conform to odd shapes and stay put. The gravel doesn't weigh as much as lead, but its alot safer to handle!!

[tu54]

Yes, I wouldn't discount sand or gravel for use as a large quantity of weight. At the shop today I re-estimated the weight of one bluejean leg filled with sand to 40 lbs. At beautiful Pensecola beach I collected sand in plastic tubs I already had from WalMart. The cops at Penesecola beach said sand is free but the beach oats have a stiff surcharge. Each tub could be 120 lbs or more. It took two wooses to lift them out of the car and carry them into the shop.

 

I met my objective for the day, a custom tool and guide to sand the tops of my table support I-beams. My challenge is to make the straight/flat tables where my only reliable long straight-edge is thread and a SmartLevel. I already found the lazer tool to be useless. While I could reduce the fat 3/16 inch beam to a tiny thing by putting a cap over the end with a needle-hole, I can't see the beam, only where it hits. So its thread and fishing line. Tomorrow I use todays products to sand the tops of my table support I-beams.

 

I see Norm is flying now??

[shender1]

I spoke to Nat about the construction of the jig table and he told me that he was surprised "how elaborate" people get with their tables. I got the impression that builders may be overdoing it by using the I beams and masonite.

 

Any thoughts or comments?

 

Also, does any one have a good suggestion for a thermostat and light bulb set up for the epoxy pump box?

 

All answers are appreciated!

[LargePrime]

I would think metal 2x4's from any home improvment place and 1/2"+ ply would more than do for a flat, untwisted table.

 

Any construction out of wood is gonna warp with humidity changes summer to winter, even indoors.

[Jim Sower]

My table is fairly elaborate but cheap and easy to build. I made a 1'x4'x8' box and another 1x4x4 out of 1/2" plywood, floxed together using outdated epoxy and 2x2 fillets ripped at 45 deg. There is a cross bulkhead every 2'. I cut holes to make storage compartments inside the box structure. Electrical outlets are part of the box and it plugs into the wall. It's rigid as all hell, cannot warp or twist and is as flat as the surface you build it on. As a disposable working surface I'm using a sheet of that cheap 1/4" plywood that is used for door skins - I forget the actual name. The box is affordable, reasonably portable and suits my purpose quite well. I sit it on a support made of 2x4s with legs on 4' centers.

 

For epoxy storage, I went to the dump and picked up a thrown away dormitory refigerator. I installed a 50 watt bulb switched by a thermostat I already had, but an attic fan controller from HD would work great.

 

As a bonus, I stripped out the compressor (which is sealed with its motor) and I have a great vacuum pump. Like killing two birds with one stone. I control the vacuum (anything over 10" - 15" will result in a dry layup) with an accumulator between the pump and the part. I use a pickel jar with inlet, outlet, vacuum guage nipples and a little needle valve from a model airplane engine as a calibrated leak.

 

Over engineering/designing is great fun, but a shop that costs more than the airplane seems to defeat the purpose of something or other ... Jim S.

[Norm M]

<<Where can you get lead for that price? I looked and looked and couldn't find any at ANY price.>>

 

The company that I bought from is listed in the yellow pages under Scrap Metal- Process and Recycle. It also says- See our Ad Under Junk Dealers. These guys are making coffee money by selling to individuals rather than smelt it down themselves.

 

I need 300 to 400 pounds of weight for gross weight tests, 200 more pounds of lead will be a good start. If anyone wants to pickup some lead ingots at Oshkosh next year, let me know. I can fire up the backyard foundry!

 

Regards-

Norm Muzzy

[Norm M]

<<I got the impression that builders may be overdoing it by using the I beams and masonite.>>

 

The TJIs (Wood "I" beams) are easy to use and dead straight. I built my table with 1/4 plywood on the bottom, and 3/4 plywood on the top, with a layer of hard tempered masonite on the top. I took the belt sander to it to clean off any epoxy, and could replace it if I wanted to. Built the table 4'x12', set it on a pair of sawhorses. Haven't moved it or adjusted it since. By a pair of 24 foot TJIs, have the lumberyard cut them to 12' to make it easier to haul. I may have had it 11'10" to allow for a piece on each end.

 

My hot box was built from 2 inch building styrofoam, using "Great Stuff" expanding foam to glue the panels together. The front door slides in and out with a friction fit. I used a Indoor/Outdoor thermometer to monitor temperature. Wedged the outdoor probe against the resin tub with a piece of foam. Size the bulb to maintain 115 to 120 degrees temperature. Most of the time all that was required was 15 watts. Left it warm all the time when I was building.

 

You can build things fancier, but the important thing is to build airplane parts. Put your energy into moving the project forward. This is a race to see if you can finish the plane before you burn out...

 

Regards-

Norm Muzzy

[tu54]

Thanks Norm,

My home-made i-beams didn't really work out as I hoped. I really want this task done so I'll get my order in for tji's tomorrow and work on my next item for the next few days.

 

Mr Shender,

I wouldn't argue that using these i-beams are going too far, especially if Nat says so. It's just when I've looked at lumber and plywood at the store I see all kinds of bends and twist. It worries me that it might transfer into the parts I make and I'll have a funny flying airplane. The I-beam seems like a quick and simple approach to get what I want. My ex once said I could spend an afternoon picking lint out of the carpet. I've seen builders sites of completed Cozy's where they used simpler tables, 2x4's between sheets of plywood. They got their project done and I assume today they're happy fliers.

[shender1]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

 

I went out to home depot this weekend and discovered that most of the pineshelf boards are twisted and or not longer than 10 feet. I think that I will use the I beams.

 

Norm. What is the motor that is in the middle of your table? Just curious.

 

Also..how do you go about rigging up a standard thermostat to a light switch? Most of the thermsostats I looked at only go up to 90 degress...A friend of mine suggested that I use a dimmer switch on a light to get the desired temp.

[dust]

we put a portable heater thermostat in our cabinet with 2 light bulbs and a shelf above with holes for airflow and drawers below for flox, micro, squeegees, tape, cups, tounge depressore etc etc

 

the light bulbs plug ito the thermostat and the thermostat plugs into the wall.

 

They sell them where they sell torpedo kerosene heaters.

 

Enjoy the build

 

Mike

[tu54]

" For epoxy storage... a thrown away dormitory refigerator. ... As a bonus, I stripped out the compressor (which is sealed with its motor) and I have a great vacuum pump."

 

Hey Jim, that refrig sounds like a nice idea. Have you started making parts yet?

 

I made my cheap suckers last year, no reservoir but vacuum controlling switches with dead zones to maintain a vacuum range. Ready to go. But that's another thread.

 

 

Sorry Mr Slade, I should've titled the thread more narrowly to 'tables.

[John Slade]

>Hey Jim, ....... Have you started making parts yet?

You really know how to hit a guy where it hurts, don't you?

 

>I should've titled the thread more narrowly to 'tables.

No complaints from me. The more discussion the better.

[tu54]

You know I have nightmares because I later realize something I've said during the day can be taken wrongly. I've yet to make a Cozy part myself. I've got a couple things to complete first. Then I plan a focused, intense effort for 2 years, then resume living.

[John Slade]

Wait till you start building. Then you'll have nightmares because something you've done during the day might work wrongly.

 

As for having something to complete first, this goes to that other thread about reasons not to build - I say dive in and get started. While building my Cozy I've replace all the interior walls in my house, installed central air, rebuilt the kitchen, worked for a living and enjoyed something of a life. Right now I'm "moving" the driveway. It's nice to have something brainless to do in between intense building sessions.

[Jim Sower]

<... Have you started making parts yet ...>

Yes and no. Quite a few parts for my Velocity, quite a few less for the Cozy. My wife insists that the airplane that flies take precidence over the one that's much more of a gleam in my eye. I can't fault her for that. I'm in the final stages of 2- or 3-weeks of steady work (preceeded by a couple of months of sporadic maintenance) on my Velocity and will move the Cozy project and support equipment from the hangar to the [heated] basement and make the tub (at least) over the winter.

[CBarber]

John,

 

I feel you are a kindered spirit. I have my fuselage 70ish% complete and just skinned my wings the last two weekends. While doing all this, SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) has "requested" (and I complied) that we repaint the living/dining room, install hardwood floors, install new vanities/cabinets/toilets and repaint the bathrooms and continuously help with gardening tasks, just to name those I can quickly think of. Oh, and continue to be a self-UNemployed lawyer.

 

I agree, having "little" projects that can be completed in a weekend can be a nice distraction from THE project, gives you time to think about and anticipate what and how to do the next "thing". I usually still work on the plane too.....just do something small (or clean the work area...the shop vac may be my most used tool) and wait for it to cure while working on something else. Mindless is a great way to put it....I never have to worry about my toliet failing at 10,000.00 feet <g>.

 

 

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[dust]

I worry about the sand leaking out of the cloth bags?? We tried water once, big mistake

 

On a workbench, if i were to do it over again i would make it identicle to my woodworking bench, except for size.

 

2x6's cut square, two long ones (12 feet) and 42" accross every 18" nailed together in a box/ladder configuration clamp/jig as flat as possible and then 3/4 in plywood sanded one side splined together to make 12 feet and glued and nailed to top and bottom.

 

with a 1/4 inch hard board finish nailed to surface, waxed with johnsons paste wax weekly and scrapped clean beforehand.

 

 

buy the wood and check for straight at the yard carefully and then run them home fast and make the box within minuites before they turn into pretzels.

 

Three sawhorses made in a t configuration of my desiogn will hold it up and create a shelf underneath.

 

 

This is called a torsion box and is unbelievable strong and stable.

 

Just made another one 4'x5' to build the strakes on

 

Mike

 

Enjoy the build

[tu54]

"I worry about the sand leaking out of the cloth bags?? We tried water once, big mistake"

 

I keep sand leakage in mind when selecting my fabric but I don't think it'll really be an issue for me. The blue jeans are obsolete only because my teen son grew out of them. The thick material is in good shape and is handling the sand well. My next material is a kind of nylon covering for an air-matress I inherited. I'll wait and see what shape I might need before I cut it up. smaller diameter worm-like tubes? bean bags shaped? loose pillows so I can redistribute the sand?

 

Weights, should I copy all this over to a new thread?

[tu54]

Regarding my tables, I'll be using a three-legged support arangement since the concrete floor was an amateur's job and isn't even anywhere. I'm renting this shop, 20x40 outside. My I-beams were $2.75 / foot and will be in Saturday evening after-hours. I'll use 2 i-beams per table with cross-members to carry load between the beams. It'll be two tables so I can challenge myself with multi-tasking and task-transition.

 

Should I copy all this over to a new thread: 'Tables' ?

[tu54]

"Wait till you start building. Then you'll have nightmares because something you've done during the day might work wrongly."

 

I wish I could find Jerry Schneider's comment about a panic situation on the project which had him dancing like Mr Peepers the monkey-boy on SNL.

[Norm M]

<<I wish I could find Jerry Schneider's comment about a panic situation on the project which had him dancing like Mr Peepers the monkey-boy on SNL.>>

 

I had one of those where I had the wings in the jigs all micro'd together, and then realized that the jigs were wrong. Wayne Hicks has a good description on his website. The lines going to the waterlevels are where you cut it, not lines that point to the tail of the wing. I remember making a panic call to Nat about what that squiggle line meant, and then shimming and tilting the jigs to hold everything proper. Next day picked up a set of jigs that has built perhaps 20 sets of wings, and everything worked well.

 

Regards-

Norm

[Jerry Schneider]

Re: Mr. Peepers

 

Sorry tu54,

 

I found the problem was with my website links, (fixed now).

 

See: http://home.earthlink.net/~jerskip/cozy_018.htm for another chuckle.

 

I find that most humor is based in truth. The teeth marks on my knuckles are nearly gone.