Cozy project in a shipping container?

[Philg]

Hello,

 

some previous posts mention you might be able to get a cozy broken down in a shipping container, sort of on a diagonal. I think at the strakes they’re something like 111” wide, so i’m having hard time visualizing how that is done. Does anyone have maybe some photos of one stuffed in something like a 40’ high cube container?

 

Alternatively, you think it would be possible to fit ferry tanks in back seats and ferry it, provided a professional would take the job? If the back seats are right on the CG, as I’ve read, maybe that’s not a bad way to go if a ferry pilot would touch it. It would need to cover about 2100nm plus reserves

[Kent Ashton]

People have shipped Cozy Mk IVs to Hawaii in an open-top shipping container and one on an open trailer on a boat.   Below is a post about the open top container and Marc Zeitlin posted about the trailer move here  https://groups.google.com/g/cozy_builders/c/dppw8dmD_do/m/DBOACL5zX9QJ

In a few cases, ferry tanks have been installed but I cannot think of a person who had done that at the moment or flown as far as Hawaii.   LA to Hawaii is 2217 NM.  17 hours at 130 KtGS. 136 gallons plus reserve and that presumes you aren't fighting a west wind (which you would likely be fighting).

I would not choose a Mk IV if I was based  in Hawaii.  The distances are short.  There are better airplanes for sight-seeing.  Also before you go much further check on the availability and cost of hangars.  There are some canards in Hawaii however.  Maybe you could partner on one.

[Marc Zeitlin]

16 minutes ago, Kent Ashton said:

In a few cases, ferry tanks have been installed but I cannot think of a person who had done that at the moment or flown as far as Hawaii. LA to Hawaii is 2217 NM.  17 hours at 130 KtGS. 136 gallons plus reserve and that presumes you aren't fighting a west wind (which you would likely be fighting).

So there is a COZY III that has "flown as far as Hawaii". That's N22AZ, flown by Damon Meyer, which flew nonstop from Ontario, CA to Portland, ME, a distance of 2258 NM (longer than Santa Barbara to Hilo). I built the rear seat aux. tanks for Damon's plane. He could carry approximately 105 gallons, IIRC, which gave a no wind range of ~3K NM when flying at the Carson speed or a bit higher. He landed with 26 gallons on board, with a tailwind, after 13 hours, at an average GS of about 170 kts.

Damon had the tanks built because he was planning a round-the-world flight, but that's been indefinitely postponed.

Since a COZY MKIV has larger strake tanks and a larger back seat, I'm sure tanks could be built that could carry more than enough fuel. One COZY MKIV had a bladder tank that could carry almost 100 gallons fabricated to fit in the back seat, but the owner never did his planned round the world flight, either.

I'm sure you could have tanks built and installed, and find a ferry pilot, and then it would only cost you about 50% more than having it shipped - at least that was my experience.

[Philg]

Hangars are available, about $800 a month. I can get one immediately but they won’t let me build a plane in one, so I’d need a flying or at least registered aircraft to get one.

thanks for the link. Maybe you’re right and it’s not worth pursuing

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Philg

[Kent Ashton]

12 hours ago, Philg said:

Hangars are available, about $800 a month. I can get one immediately but they won’t let me build a plane in one, so I’d need a flying or at least registered aircraft to get one.

I have heard this complaint before about airports in Hawaii.  If the airport has accepted federal money, it must comply with FAA policy on the use of hangars which includes allowing construction, repair, refurbishment and "final assembly".  The policy is a little wishy-washy but it's there.  From the FAA's website:

Quote

Question 13. What are the policy changes for homebuilders?

FAA Response. The FAA understands the substantial convenience to aircraft builders of locating the entire aircraft construction process at the same location, specifically in an airport hangar. The new policy offers protections that never existed in the FAA's prior policy. First, the FAA recognizes amateur-built aircraft construction as an aeronautical activity to be accommodated at airports on reasonable terms, without unjust discrimination and without granting an exclusive right. Second, the new policy provides for the safe construction of amateur-built aircraft in hangars (see Question 8). As an airport asset management tool, an airport sponsor leasing a vacant hangar for amateur-built aircraft construction may incorporate progress benchmarks in the lease to ensure the construction project proceeds to completion in a reasonable time.

Here is the policy.  See page 38910 and specifically, section II.   https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-06-15/pdf/2016-14133.pdf     There is a FAQ page here   https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_compliance/hangar_use/

The way you enforce it is to write a letter to the FAA FSDO over Hawaii and show proof the airport does not comply with the policy.  Here is the FSDO address   https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/?state=HI    It takes 15 minutes to bang-out a letter.

The reason airports get away with this B.S. is because builders in Hawaii don't complain about it.

[Philg]

Yeah, I know. I've been down that road. Good luck  fighting the state. I got them to relent some but I think they said they'd give me 90 days or six months. I can't remember. You might could get it registered and a tail number assigned in that time and sneak by but I kinda doubt it.  Also no paint work allowed period. They might take exception to glass work too, I'm not sure. I don't own a garage so I can't start there and move to a hangar later either. I could maybe set up a plastic garage in the yard but I live like right by a bay and the corrosion is insane here 

 

Also there are no DARs here so you have to go through the fsdo. Last guy that did that they made him truck his airplane to diingham to test it. They're trying to close Dillingham. He said he wouldn't do any of it again. Yes you could probably fly a dar out...

 

The certified airplanes here are just junk after sitting around the ocean and I've always wanted an experimental anyway so I've been looking around for s.o.etching that'll work tk carry me, my wife, and a 45 pound dog inter island. Vans prices have gotten ridiculous, Mustang ii won't really fit the dog easily, thorp maybe if I can find an s18, We're too big for a long ez and dog... A cozy fits the mission efficiently. I don't need the speed but when gas is 7.50 a gallon efficient is nice. Plus fiberglass doesn't corrode.

Theres a rutan defiant on barnstormers with a trailer. That's a good option because the strake width isn't an issue and it comes in its own container. Roll on roll off shipping isn't bad a d the trailer is worth the cost of the kit when it gets here but I'm not sure that's a project for a first time builder  to dive into with no glass experience 

 

Phone typos a d a huge run on mess. Sorry.

 

Tl,Dr flying in Hawaii sucks 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Philg

[Philg]

Oh and I can't afford a velo

 

 a bd-4 also fits the mission perfectly but good luck finding one flying for sale. I've been watching 

Wittman w10 might too but I'm a big guy, 6'2 280 (but going down slowly) so fit might be an issue. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Philg

[Marc Zeitlin]

18 minutes ago, Philg said:

Tl,Dr flying in Hawaii sucks 

I can put you in touch with the guy who has the COZY MKIV on the big island (PHMU) if you want to talk to him about shipping, owning, or flying a MKIV.

[Philg]

7 minutes ago, Marc Zeitlin said:

I can put you in touch with the guy who has the COZY MKIV on the big island (PHMU) if you want to talk to him about shipping, owning, or flying a MKIV.

Don't come across planes based at kamuela often. Sure! I wouldn't mind picking his brain a bit or flying over to test fit the plane for me if he doesn't mind 

 

More rambling thoughts.the grumman is the ideal hawaii plane imo because you can fly with the canopy cracked but finding a decent one is a bit of a disaster. Plus the corrosion thing. And the weird bonded wings 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Philg

[A Bruce Hughes]

I knew a guy that flew around the world TWICE, once going west, once going east in year 2000.    He started in or near Zurich.

PLEASE somebody tell me his name and I will say more about that flight from Oakland; I saw him on Maui on his way west in a Longeze.  

[Philg]

The only guy I know was a year ago in a lancair 
 

https://www.6zqpilot.com/

[Marc Zeitlin]

8 hours ago, Philg said:

Don't come across planes based at kamuela often. Sure! I wouldn't mind picking his brain a bit or flying over to test fit the plane for me if he doesn't mind 

Contact me via email.

[Ron Springer]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:41 AM, Philg said:

Yeah, I know. I've been down that road. Good luck  fighting the state. I got them to relent some but I think they said they'd give me 90 days or six months. I can't remember. You might could get it registered and a tail number assigned in that time and sneak by but I kinda doubt it.  

You can register a plane and get a tail number at any time. There is no requirement for the plane to be finished or even started. The plane only has to be finished for the airworthiness certificate. I am not sure if that helps, but worth pointing out.

[Philg]

6 hours ago, Ron Springer said:

You can register a plane and get a tail number at any time. There is no requirement for the plane to be finished or even started. The plane only has to be finished for the airworthiness certificate. I am not sure if that helps, but worth pointing out.

Yes, but somewhere in there is a six month limitation for the hangar. Let me see if I can find it 

[Philg]

However, if the applicant's aircraft is under repair, in shipment, or under construction at that time, then the Director can grant a conditional waiver to allow the processing of a permit with the requirement that the applicant must have the aircraft certificated and airworthy within six (6) months of the effective date."

 

From here 

https://hidot.hawaii.gov/airports/files/2013/01/17-SmallPlane.pdf

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Philg

[TheSteaks]

On 5/4/2021 at 10:07 PM, Philg said:

However, if the applicant's aircraft is under repair, in shipment, or under construction at that time, then the Director can grant a conditional waiver to allow the processing of a permit with the requirement that the applicant must have the aircraft certificated and airworthy within six (6) months of the effective date."

 

From here 

https://hidot.hawaii.gov/airports/files/2013/01/17-SmallPlane.pdf

Complete Sarcasm,  But if you can give it 12.5 Hours per Day (on Average) you can get it all built in 6 Months.  (Assuming 2300 Hours)