Fred Scheaffer Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The Cozy MK 4 is 16.9 feet long . The Velocity XL is 20 feet long. With greater useful load . Larger canard and larger main wing . But the Velocity weighs 750 pounds more. The thought occurred to me that if one were to up scale the MK 4 and keep to the same build layups . One could increase load capacity and keep over all weight down below that of a Velocity . Any thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidhawk9 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) Hi Fred, Building bigger with more load but the same structure would result in a weaker aircraft. Not recommended. What is your mission objective? Many people have built fuselages a bit wider (myself included), and the Aerocanard is basically the same but a bit wider at the firewall, so more room in the back-seat area. How much space do you need? Of course, you have to be careful here - building bigger increases weight, which reduces usable payload! Edited September 22, 2018 by Voidhawk9 Quote Aerocanard (modified) SN:ACPB-0226 (Chapter 8) Canardspeed.com (my build log and more; usually lags behind actual progress)Flight simulator (X-plane) flight model master: X-Aerodynamics (GMT+12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Scheaffer Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Not really looking for more space . Looking for more weight capacity . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidhawk9 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 As the builder, you can technically write in whatever MTOW you choose, but one should be wise about it. Will it need stronger gear? More power to maintain performance? The Infinity Retracts are made and tested for 2,200lbs, so that might help with the former. A more powerful engine may help with the latter, but might add weight and wipe out any starting benefits. These are just starting suggestions, of course, and by no means an exhaustive list of considerations. How much payload capacity do you need? Build light and fit minimal equipment, and all those weight savings translate into payload capability. Quote Aerocanard (modified) SN:ACPB-0226 (Chapter 8) Canardspeed.com (my build log and more; usually lags behind actual progress)Flight simulator (X-plane) flight model master: X-Aerodynamics (GMT+12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Scheaffer Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Any change to fuselage size would require testing to determine if the structure is weakened . The structure can be just as strong without adding more weight. You half to be smart on the construction Materials used ect . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidhawk9 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Sure. But are you building a Cozy or designing something new? Changing materials, strength testing etc. is not trivial and will make the project take much longer and become more expensive. Quote Aerocanard (modified) SN:ACPB-0226 (Chapter 8) Canardspeed.com (my build log and more; usually lags behind actual progress)Flight simulator (X-plane) flight model master: X-Aerodynamics (GMT+12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Scheaffer Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 That's the fun part. Just time , materials and money ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macleodm3 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Fred Scheaffer said: Not really looking for more space . Looking for more weight capacity . You may really like the Weight and Balance spreadsheet the Marc Zeitlin has provided for us on his Unofficial Cozy website. Just now, I opened it up and I put my weight in as 180, copilot as 180, changed fuel to 20 gallons, and then was able to add 500 lbs in the rear seat baggage area. 500 lbs!!! Do you need more weight capacity than that? I'm good to go for 400 miles with a quarter ton in the backseat area. Quote Andrew Anunson I work underground and I play in the sky... no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Scheaffer Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 It's good to remain positive . Thing don't become better without trying something new . Or altering something to improve upon it . That's how the Cozy and Cozy MK 4 came about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Scheaffer Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 But i don't want to diminish fuel capacity Thus the quest ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macleodm3 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Fred Scheaffer said: The thought occurred to me that if one were to up scale the MK 4 and keep to the same build layups . One could increase load capacity and keep over all weight down below that of a Velocity . Any thoughts ? Answer:Everything changes as a system. Taller trees need bigger roots or they fall over. Can't just make it bigger... cause lots of things change Quote Andrew Anunson I work underground and I play in the sky... no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Scheaffer Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Trees are not planes and have much different physical structure requirements You half to under stand the materials you are working with . Just for example take a one square foot of Kevlar 4 oz per foot . Epoxy the peace and see if you can break it. And if it's a composite structure . You can stand your hole dam big ass tree on it and it's not going any where. Just a semantic example . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macleodm3 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Fred Scheaffer said: Trees are not planes and have much different physical structure requirements You half to under stand the materials you are working with . Just for example take a one square foot of Kevlar 4 oz per foot . Epoxy the peace and see if you can break it. And if it's a composite structure . You can stand your hole dam big ass tree on it and it's not going any where. Just a semantic example . Ohhh.... I see. Thanks! So, we can just make it bigger? I didn't understand the materials.... Thanks!!! 1 Quote Andrew Anunson I work underground and I play in the sky... no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Ashton Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 14 hours ago, Fred Scheaffer said: The structure can be just as strong without adding more weight. You half to be smart on the construction Materials used ect . 13 hours ago, Fred Scheaffer said: Just for example take a one square foot of Kevlar 4 oz per foot . Are you thinking of building a Cozy out of Kevlar? Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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