Varieze O-200 mount

[mond-EZ]

Hi guys

I don’t know what happened with this thread, I couldn’t find it any more so I came to a different area “General construction”

I hope the ones that were advising me about what to do with this Varieze 0-200 mount with a bent tube can see this post.

The mount was mounted so I don’t think any other tube was affected; I took it off to take better pics and have it ready for the repair.

Another question is: Is this material so fragile that can not be bent back to the right position? It looks very flexible.

I was thinking after bending it back; have it inspected with Magnaflux if it’s not more expensive than changing the tube.

Here are the pictures

 

Forward view – Upper right bent tube – Upper left good tube

[Lynn Erickson]

Hi guys

I don’t know what happened with this thread, I couldn’t find it any more so I came to a different area “General construction”

I hope the ones that were advising me about what to do with this Varieze 0-200 mount with a bent tube can see this post.

The mount was mounted so I don’t think any other tube was affected; I took it off to take better pics and have it ready for the repair.

Another question is: Is this material so fragile that can not be bent back to the right position? It looks very flexible.

I was thinking after bending it back; have it inspected with Magnaflux if it’s not more expensive than changing the tube.

Here are the pictures

 

Forward view – Upper right bent tube – Upper left good tube

[ATTACH]2965[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2966[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2967[/ATTACH]

looks like a smooth bend. I would mount it to the plane or a piece of plywood and try to bend it back. what do you have to lose it will not work that way. it will take a bit of pressure and if you get it back into position it will be ok if it does not kink. bending that back will not effect the strength if the tube is still round.

[Kent Ashton]

Considering that new engine mounts are running around $700, it's worth a try. I think your problem will be to secure the firewall mounts in the correct position while you pull the bent tube back into shape.

 

I think I'd get a welder to make a simple steel jig that duplicates your firewall mount spacing and clamp/bolt your engine mount to that jig. 4130 is tough so you need some way to hold the jig down while you work on the tube.

 

You might pack the tube with sand or Cerrobend to insure it stays round.

[Bob Setzer]

Hi guys

I don’t know what happened with this thread, I couldn’t find it any more so I came to a different area “General construction”

I hope the ones that were advising me about what to do with this Varieze 0-200 mount with a bent tube can see this post.

The mount was mounted so I don’t think any other tube was affected; I took it off to take better pics and have it ready for the repair.

Another question is: Is this material so fragile that can not be bent back to the right position? It looks very flexible.

I was thinking after bending it back; have it inspected with Magnaflux if it’s not more expensive than changing the tube.

Here are the pictures

 

Forward view – Upper right bent tube – Upper left good tube

[ATTACH]2965[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2966[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2967[/ATTACH]

Looking at your #3 picture it looks like the tube under the weld has a small crease in it (I may be wrong). If you attempt to bend it back if it has a crease in it the tube is probably going to buckle.

If that crease is there you should replace the tube. I think the hardest thing is going to reposition the original drilled mounting holes.

Someone else may have a idea on a drill jig fixture for that operation.

Again I may be wrong at what I see in that picture (I hope I am).

 

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

[mond-EZ]

My idea is to fabricate a fire wall mount that I can hold firmly on the bench vise, bolt the affected tube to this and work from there. (I know that mounted on the plane, the plane should overcome this work but I think is not necessary to do it that way). Putting sand inside is a good idea but there is no access to it, only the 1/32” hole to oil the inside up for corrosion protection. And the #3 picture is the good tube (the straight one) I put it there for comparison purposes.

Then, If after it is back in place and shows perfectly rounded all over.

Would you suggest any kind of testing?

Thanks a lot.

Luis

[steve]

Hi guys

I don’t know what happened with this thread, I couldn’t find it any more so I came to a different area “General construction”

I hope the ones that were advising me about what to do with this Varieze 0-200 mount with a bent tube can see this post.

The mount was mounted so I don’t think any other tube was affected; I took it off to take better pics and have it ready for the repair.

Another question is: Is this material so fragile that can not be bent back to the right position? It looks very flexible.

I was thinking after bending it back; have it inspected with Magnaflux if it’s not more expensive than changing the tube.

Here are the pictures

 

Forward view – Upper right bent tube – Upper left good tube

[ATTACH]2965[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2966[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2967[/ATTACH]

bolt it down then build a pee-vee, ill draw it faster then i can type it.....ok here it is as you can see the end is very importent so you can bend a little bit at a time moveing up and down the tube, spent 10 min not 10 sec and you will be good to go (we hope) or pay for shiping and i can weld on a new tube for free (well, a ride)

[mond-EZ]

I’ll take care of it this weekend, and by the way, I had thought about the piece of wood you just drew, to concentrate all the forces on the bending.

[sam holman]

I would make your blocks of wood from maple, you will need the strength of it to hold the metal, and a v will do the same job as the round groove. In fact if you can hold it in a bench vise you will not need the wood. I would think the real trick to make it straight is to find steel rod to insert into end of your metal tube and a pipe over it. They should be tight fit and two feet long or longer. The more purchase you have the more control you will have to make it straight. You will have to over bend your tube to make it true.

 

Also it is a lot easier to correct one tube at a time and weld them back together.

 

Good luck, Sam

[mond-EZ]

Thank you very much guys, I let you all know how everything went after the weekend

[mond-EZ]

Well… mission accomplished.

After all the advises I got and realizing I was going to deal with a strong material, this is what I came up with.

I used steel angles.

Held the bent tube with angles on the bench vise.

And applied the force thru a 4’ pipe from the part of the mount that goes to the fire wall mount.

I was able to bend the tube back to its correct shape, achieving measurements within 1/32” tolerance by plans.

[mond-EZ]

The repaired tube now looks exactly like the other one.

Here is the mount clean of rust.

 

Now I found out about another issue, the fire wall mounts.

Measuring the distance between the outside of the angles that should be 15”3/4 by plans.

But on the upper ones I got 16”3/4

And on the lower ones I got 15”7/16

This means that to install the O-200 mount right there it needs to be forced in, and that is how it was mounted.

Is this a big issue, or no problem???

Thanks a lot.

Luis

[Lynn Erickson]

The repaired tube now looks exactly like the other one.

[ATTACH]2996[/ATTACH]

Here is the mount clean of rust.

[ATTACH]2997[/ATTACH]

 

Now I found out about another issue, the fire wall mounts.

Measuring the distance between the outside of the angles that should be 15”3/4 by plans.

But on the upper ones I got 16”3/4

And on the lower ones I got 15”7/16

This means that to install the O-200 mount right there it needs to be forced in, and that is how it was mounted.

Is this a big issue, or no problem???

Thanks a lot.

Luis

Are you building a vari or long ez the mounts are different the long ez is 1" wider at the top mount. if you force it in the engine pad spacing will not be correct. and good work on the straightening.

[mond-EZ]

I’m Rebuilding a VariEze.

Beside the repairs needed, one of my commitments is to check how well and by plans this one was built.

I already read the full set of plans, but I still need to read all the CP newsletters.

For what you say, it seems that the fire wall mounts were installed by LE plans. I wonder why.

I think that the O-200 is the best option for a VE, but at the same time I having second thoughts about the Corvair engine (they’ve been experimenting and developing it for 20 years), so if it’s proven that this one is as safe and reliable as a Continental O-200, it will be worth the money saving and I might change my mind and use the O-200 mount to modify it for Corvair or sell it.

[mond-EZ]

I got another question guys.

My VE got a brand new MLG Bow that it’s been temporarily fitted, the bolts are not even tighten yet, plus they advised me to use thicker ones, like LE ones.

How can I know if it is a VE or LE bow?

Somebody told me it’s a VE and that I should add some layers of BID, but I’d like a second opinion.

[Lynn Erickson]

I’m Rebuilding a VariEze.

Beside the repairs needed, one of my commitments is to check how well and by plans this one was built.

I already read the full set of plans, but I still need to read all the CP newsletters.

For what you say, it seems that the fire wall mounts were installed by LE plans. I wonder why.

I think that the O-200 is the best option for a VE, but at the same time I having second thoughts about the Corvair engine (they’ve been experimenting and developing it for 20 years), so if it’s proven that this one is as safe and reliable as a Continental O-200, it will be worth the money saving and I might change my mind and use the O-200 mount to modify it for Corvair or sell it.

[ATTACH]3000[/ATTACH]

do you want to fly or experiment with an engine. not the best type of plane for engine experimentation. why go from a 200 Cu in engine to a 140 cu in engine. you will not be happy. ask your self why are there not very many vari ezes flying with a corvair.

the very best engine for a vari eze is the O-235. 120 Hp make it a great plane.

[mond-EZ]

Lynn

What you are saying is not entirely true, William Wynne have already experimented for 20 years and got books and videos on how to do everything and if this is not enough, he can do it for you. As far as I’ve read, once that engine is converted there is not much left of the old car engine, they harden the crankshaft and update and harden the camshaft, not to mention that is a 180hp engine used at only 120hp, quite a bit of over strength, The size is 190 (not 140) and a few lbs lighter than the Continental O-200.

I’m still not decided, got a lot of info to confirm yet, like if it fits in the same cowl, I wouldn’t modify the cowl for nothing, that would be like building a different unnamed plane, like Nat Puffer say “do it our way or don’t call it Cozy”. I recognize the effort and skills that guy put on his LE to power it with a 13B but I think is no longer a LE.

If you haven’t done it yet, take a look at www.flycorvair.com

Regarding the O-235 I think it exceeds recommended vibrating mass by Burt Rutan.

[TMann]

Luis .... if you want to go the corvair route, let me know.

I can tell you right where you can expect the crankshaft to break.

 

They have a history.

[Lynn Erickson]

Lynn

What you are saying is not entirely true, William Wynne have already experimented for 20 years and got books and videos on how to do everything and if this is not enough, he can do it for you. As far as I’ve read, once that engine is converted there is not much left of the old car engine, they harden the crankshaft and update and harden the camshaft, not to mention that is a 180hp engine used at only 120hp, quite a bit of over strength, The size is 190 (not 140) and a few lbs lighter than the Continental O-200.

I’m still not decided, got a lot of info to confirm yet, like if it fits in the same cowl, I wouldn’t modify the cowl for nothing, that would be like building a different unnamed plane, like Nat Puffer say “do it our way or don’t call it Cozy”. I recognize the effort and skills that guy put on his LE to power it with a 13B but I think is no longer a LE.

If you haven’t done it yet, take a look at www.flycorvair.com

Regarding the O-235 I think it exceeds recommended vibrating mass by Burt Rutan.

Yes it has been done on a few plane and some have had some success with the corvair. so if he does have a video that will tell you how to do everything then it should be no big deal to use a corvair. just bolt it on and go. thats why there are some many varieze pilots that are upgrading their O-200 to a O-235 or even O-320s and not corvairs. look around and see which engines are doing all the flying and which one are doing all the experimenting. they claim that they have put 200 hours on one top of the line corvair engine. that may sound impressive at first glance but I doubt they did that with out touching it during the 200 hours. and how many years did it take to get that 200 hours. and the cost of the engine that puts out 120 HP will be in the $15000 range before you are done. these engines may look good on paper but in the end you will spend more time and money then you would if you use a proven engine. I say this because I have seen this happen so many times I have lost count. and if you are worried about what Burt recommended to builders 30 years ago about the vibrating mass thing, that went out the window about 25 years ago when the first O-290 was installed on a varieze and was a complete success. now there are more O-320 powered variezes then there are corvair powered ones. that should tell you something.

[mond-EZ]

I’m kind of lost here, let’s go by part.

1. I always was skeptical about auto conversions, but when I knew about the success of the 13B on Cozies and Velocities I opened my mind to it, but after some research found out that they are not feasible on VariEzies, too large and to heavy.

Then I found the Corvair option claiming to be the less expensive alternative for O200 or O235 users, Arnold Holmes (member) mentioned it in this forum, I went into Flycorvair.com and read a lot of nice thing about it… I know, none of them on canards.

I have no doubt about Continental or Lycoming; I know they were born to fly.

I just didn’t wanna miss any safe less expensive alternative if there is one.

The guys on 13Bs got one for larger planes.

2. It’s true, most VEs flying use O200, O235, some O320 and very few Rotax with one fatality caused by the engine that I know of.

I obviously need to educate myself some more, because I don’t get it. If Burt Rutan, the genius that today is designing spaceships, said no more than 240lbs vibrating mass on a VE. What’s going on? What’s the real weight and power limit?

Here we are talking about airframe strength to hold the engine, weight and balance, Gs

Somebody here mentioned an O240 that weights the same than an O200 and delivers 140hp, that could be nice.

Maybe I should focus on getting my airframe ready and save money for a good engine.

[SAF_Zoom]

2. It’s true, most VEs flying use O200, O235, some O320 and very few Rotax with one fatality caused by the engine that I know of.

Are you refering to the VE that cought fire due to sub standard fuel lines? This accident was not caused by the engine itself but by inadequate accessories.

[Lynn Erickson]

I’m kind of lost here, let’s go by part.

1. I always was skeptical about auto conversions, but when I knew about the success of the 13B on Cozies and Velocities I opened my mind to it, but after some research found out that they are not feasible on VariEzies, too large and to heavy.

Then I found the Corvair option claiming to be the less expensive alternative for O200 or O235 users, Arnold Holmes (member) mentioned it in this forum, I went into Flycorvair.com and read a lot of nice thing about it… I know, none of them on canards.

I have no doubt about Continental or Lycoming; I know they were born to fly.

I just didn’t wanna miss any safe less expensive alternative if there is one.

The guys on 13Bs got one for larger planes.

2. It’s true, most VEs flying use O200, O235, some O320 and very few Rotax with one fatality caused by the engine that I know of.

I obviously need to educate myself some more, because I don’t get it. If Burt Rutan, the genius that today is designing spaceships, said no more than 240lbs vibrating mass on a VE. What’s going on? What’s the real weight and power limit?

Here we are talking about airframe strength to hold the engine, weight and balance, Gs

Somebody here mentioned an O240 that weights the same than an O200 and delivers 140hp, that could be nice.

Maybe I should focus on getting my airframe ready and save money for a good engine.

The main thing I have against alternate engines is the they are so many experiments all rolled into one aircraft. every part that has to be adapted to the application is an experiment in itself. when they say they had to modify the crank, add a thrust bearing, put on a different carb, added a balancer these are all experiments that may or may not work as planed. even if they do work, for how long? when they claim that it has flown 200 hours without a problem, it is still an experiment and what will happen on hour 201? as for the mass of the engine that Burt designed the varieze to have, that has been an experiment that went the other way. so successful is the design that people that have experimented with bigger engines have proven the design to be able to handle the load safely. if you are looking for dependability with the least maintenance( best proven TBO ) go Lycoming second choice is continental

[mond-EZ]

OK, I agree

Thank you Lynn

 

Regarding what I said about Rotax, I’m sorry, my bad.

But still makes me think that maybe the necessary modifications to accommodate that engine were difficult enough for professional like the person who did it and costed his life.