JCPJCP Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Has anybody seen this engine ? Poking about for new "Wankel" patents, found these two from Wankel Super-Tec. Then searching further using "Wankel Super-Tec", found the photo on a German language newspaper web page. But nothing new on Wankel Super-Tec's own web page. Obvious it is a turbocharged two rotor design. What is the red object, a diesel injection pump ? Appears to be a double ended ignition coil on top of the engine. Perhaps a drone engine ? JCP us007234374-001.tif us007264454-001.tif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Appears to be a double ended ignition coil on top of the engine. Ignition coil on a diesel? Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Morrison Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It also looks like it is all alunimum. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Morrison Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Aluminum, Aluminum, not all that hard. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainfart Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 > found the photo on a German language newspaper web page Post a link, someone will be able to translate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPJCP Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Photo was found at: http://www.pressemeldungen.at/48441/effizienter-arbeiten-mit-der-projektmanagementsoftware-fasttrack-schedule/ JCP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPJCP Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Here's another German language article at: http://www.tu-cottbus.de/projekte/uploads/media/BIEMCB_LR_080524.pdf JCP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPJCP Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Photo at top of attached PDF shows both spark plugs and diesel injectors. Engine needs spark plugs to start due to maximum compression of a Wankel. Once hot and running, it may run as a pure diesel. Assuming a two stage compression/expansion due to the turbo, overall compression could well be over 20:1 once the turbo spins up. Note no intercooler, hence the hot boosted turbo output raises temperature at TDC high enough for diesel ignition. Are they trading off the cooler exhaust temperatures of a diesel for higher inlet air temperatures to the Wankel. Also note, rotors turn in the opposite direction from a Mazda. Article talks about "very light" aircraft, hence engine may be only 100 HP or less. Date on article is May 2008....... BIEMCB_LR_080524.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydogg Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Photo at top of attached PDF shows both spark plugs and diesel injectors. Engine needs spark plugs to start due to maximum compression of a Wankel. Once hot and running, it may run as a pure diesel. Call me crazy but as far as I know (or knew) diesel is a compression ignition fuel and won't ignite via a spark. The closest reference I could find on the subject was this, where they run a gas engine in "diesel" mode to increase efficiency...once it's running. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=123274 Maybe they know something the rest of us don't??? Anyone else heard of spark igniting diesel? **edited cause I don't know how to spell** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 My diesel tractor has glow plugs - maybe that's what was meant. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydogg Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 My diesel tractor has glow plugs - maybe that's what was meant.I suppose it's possible, hopefully someone that speak german can confirm or deny that though. I believe all (at least most) high-compression diesel engines have glowplugs to help with cold weather starting. I probably shouldn't say "all" though, if you know otherwise please feel free to correct me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainfart Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 They indeed use spark plugs since the compression isn't high enough for self-ignition of the diesel. They claim the engine can be adapted to other fuels, like gasoline, alcohol, vegetable oil, kerosene etc. They will build a few prototypes, further development and production needs to be financed by investors. There is an American investor who financed part of the development and wants to use the engine for generators for military purposes. They also mention converting the engine for light aircraft use, but apparently that's not their main priority (ultralight aircraft in Europe are comparable to LSA aircraft in the US, so I assume that would be a 100-150HP version). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPJCP Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Attached is a poor machine translation of the German text. Agree text states aviation is their second priority, but prototype photos are of an aircraft engine ! JCP WANKEL_SUPER-TEC.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Am I mistaken or is the exhaust pointed in the "correct " direction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Call me crazy but as far as I know (or knew) diesel is a compression ignition fuel and won't ignite via a spark. The closest reference I could find on the subject was this, where they run a gas engine in "diesel" mode to increase efficiency...once it's running. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=123274 Maybe they know something the rest of us don't??? Anyone else heard of spark igniting diesel? **edited cause I don't know how to spell** i had my 57 t-bird filled from dead empty to about 1/3 full (we ran out of gas in a farm land) and it started, and ran, as we got to the interstate it seamed as if it were running like a diesel (low power and sound) so i asked are grate host and he said that he was a farmer and always got gas from the diesel pump. so we filled it up the rest of the way with 92 and drove 100 miles home . Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 i had my 57 t-bird filled from dead empty to about 1/3 full (we ran out of gas in a farm land) and it started, and ran, as we got to the interstate it seamed as if it were running like a diesel (low power and sound) so i asked are grate host and he said that he was a farmer and always got gas from the diesel pump. so we filled it up the rest of the way with 92 and drove 100 miles home . My understanding is not that a 100 LL engine won't burn jet (diesel) and that the problem with mixing the fuels with a mistake at the pump is not that the engine will just stop, but is the fact that there is more energy available from the jet and at high power will destroy the engine because of this increased energy. But then I could be wrong, this is an election year. Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplafleur Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 A gasser can run on diesel. Our lawn mower was filled by mistake once with kerosene by our son. It was hard to start and ran like crap, but it did run. Quote Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155N68ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPJCP Posted November 2, 2008 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Yes, exhaust is pointed aft for a pusher! Poor photo on second article shows injectors replacing leading sparkplugs. Believe it runs as a pure diesel, once the turbo spins up to about 2:1 pressure ratio. At that point, the inlet air temperature to Wankel would be about 300F and the combined compression ratio in the range of a normal diesel. Perhaps they are trading the high inlet air temperatue against the lower exhaust temperature of a diesel (Zoche claims 700F lower). The two stage compression (Turbo then Wankel) and two stage expansion (Wankel then Turbo) may yield efficiencies approaching a true diesel. Something to watch, but like most engine guys they are short of money and afraid of aviation related lawsuits. JCP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airwrench Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 One simply has to acheive the temps for ignition. A intake heater, glow plug, blower/turbo, then go boom. High compression rotors? I would think Jet-A as a fuel source...........then metering the fuel correctly. (Hey, I could toss my ecm and not sigh if the alternator puked!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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