Cozy or Areocanard???????

[KS canard builder]

I have been researching building a canard airplane for a few months now. Canards have really gotten my attention and I would really enjoy the process of building an airplane.

 

During my research I have found out that many aspiring people set out to build a Cozy and make it to about Chap 9 or 10 and start to sputter out. So with this I have a few questions....

 

1. What is the difference between a Cozy and an Areocanard? I have noticed that many people build a Cozy with Areocanard modifications. Is one better than the other? If so why?

 

2. Do you think a builder would have a better chance finishing an airplane with Areocanard since it is built from pre-built parts?

 

3. I would enjoy seeing a Cozy. If anyone in the central Kansas area has one, I would love to bring my wife out to see it sometime. She has bought into the process, but I would love to do anything I could to prevent AIDS...

 

Thanks for listening.

[John D. Wages]

I have been researching building a canard airplane for a few months now. Canards have really gotten my attention and I would really enjoy the process of building an airplane.

 

During my research I have found out that many aspiring people set out to build a Cozy and make it to about Chap 9 or 10 and start to sputter out. So with this I have a few questions....

Okay, go ahead..

 

1. What is the difference between a Cozy and an Areocanard? I have noticed that many people build a Cozy with Areocanard modifications. Is one better than the other? If so why?

It depends on what you mean by better. If you're planning on building an Aerocanard from plans, it's pretty much the same thing as a Cozy. The Aerocanard kits can be viewed at: http://aerocad.com/

The basic kits are the "SB", which stands for "Standard Body" and is the same dimensions as the Cozy Mark IV. The Aerocanard kit is a bit larger than the standard body. Both in kit form can be time savers for anyone interested.

 

2. Do you think a builder would have a better chance finishing an airplane with Areocanard since it is built from pre-built parts?

Everyone is different. You'll get out of it, what you put into it. Some folks enjoy the build more than the flying. Others build just to get to the flying. And others just want to fly. You have to ask yourself, "Where do I fall in those categories?" If you enjoy building, like many of us on this and other forums, buy the plans and get started. If you want to build just to get to the flying, go with the Aerocanard kit. It's a little more expensive that way, but you'll reach your goal much faster than with plans built. Or, you can buy someone's unfinished project...and finish it. And lastly, If you fall under the heading of "Just wanting to own and fly a canard", buy one that's finished and flying. There are several out there to buy.

 

 

3. I would enjoy seeing a Cozy. If anyone in the central Kansas area has one, I would love to bring my wife out to see it sometime. She has bought into the process, but I would love to do anything I could to prevent AIDS...

 

Thanks for listening.

OK!....explain that one. What kind of AIDS?...Hearing AIDS, ROLAIDS....WHAT?

[rviglierchio]

Aircraft Induced Divorce Syndrome......?

[Big Steve]

Building a plane is a time and money thing. Some people have both time and money some have neither. You have to decide what is best for you. I am addicted to building cannot quit. So I build plans built planes. I dont even like the thought of a kit. Other guys would never fly unless someone built 50% of there plane. What will you wife let you get away with. That has to be added to the equation my wife likes me at home in the shop. Some women want there man in the house fixing something. I personaly thing if you build a cozyIV buy it from acs not from an imposter. If you want an Areocanard buy the kit from them. After chapt. 7 the build gets a lot tougher the parts get more complicated and some people see that this is going to take them a whole lot longer than they exspected. I think that is why you see so many projects for sale in that part of the build. My .02 STeve the Airplane building addict

[KS canard builder]

Aircraft Induced Divorce Syndrome......?

Yes, you are right.

[KS canard builder]

Okay, go ahead..

 

 

 

It depends on what you mean by better. If you're planning on building an Aerocanard from plans, it's pretty much the same thing as a Cozy. The Aerocanard kits can be viewed at: http://aerocad.com/

The basic kits are the "SB", which stands for "Standard Body" and is the same dimensions as the Cozy Mark IV. The Aerocanard kit is a bit larger than the standard body. Both in kit form can be time savers for anyone interested.

 

 

 

Everyone is different. You'll get out of it, what you put into it. Some folks enjoy the build more than the flying. Others build just to get to the flying. And others just want to fly. You have to ask yourself, "Where do I fall in those categories?" If you enjoy building, like many of us on this and other forums, buy the plans and get started. If you want to build just to get to the flying, go with the Aerocanard kit. It's a little more expensive that way, but you'll reach your goal much faster than with plans built. Or, you can buy someone's unfinished project...and finish it. And lastly, If you fall under the heading of "Just wanting to own and fly a canard", buy one that's finished and flying. There are several out there to buy.

I would really enjoy the building process. I would like to see some foam and epoxy grow into a beautiful airplane that I could say I built. My concern is the amount of builder's sites I see that have projects that are not finished or sold. I am not someone who quits projects. I also do believe that you get out of what you put into any project, and I am sure that many of these people were the same when they started.

 

What if I fit under all the above classifications for wanting a Cozy????

[KS canard builder]

Building a plane is a time and money thing. Some people have both time and money some have neither. You have to decide what is best for you. I am addicted to building cannot quit. So I build plans built planes. I dont even like the thought of a kit. Other guys would never fly unless someone built 50% of there plane. What will you wife let you get away with. That has to be added to the equation my wife likes me at home in the shop. Some women want there man in the house fixing something. I personaly thing if you build a cozyIV buy it from acs not from an imposter. If you want an Areocanard buy the kit from them. After chapt. 7 the build gets a lot tougher the parts get more complicated and some people see that this is going to take them a whole lot longer than they exspected. I think that is why you see so many projects for sale in that part of the build. My .02 STeve the Airplane building addict

Thanks for the info Steve. Your site along with many others has helped not only my motivation, but helped my wife see that it is a project that can be done(not only in my garage, but in a tent with holes in the side if need be.) That was really cool to find.

 

I would really like to build a Cozy. I had just found the Aerocanard site, and I didn't know the difference between the two. I thought that the Aerocanard was a kit-built Cozy. I am guessing I am wrong with that.

 

My wife is finishing her nursing degree right now(finishing next May), and I think the timeframe for starting the building process is about one year. Looking back, do you have anything that you wish you had known before you got started? Anything you would suggest to study or start buying to prepare for the build. I know the plans are #1 on the list, but what about after that?????

[dirtdox]

I struggled with the decision of which plans to buy but ultimately my brother and I purchased Aerocanard plans. We intend to build from plans but I like the fact that some of the parts are available pre-made. The plans are pretty much a copy of the Cozy MKIV plans with only minor changes.

[Phil Kriley]

Anything you would suggest to study or start buying to prepare for the build. I know the plans are #1 on the list, but what about after that?????

Get your shop ready. Build the table. Start collecting tools. Do the practice layups in Chapter 3 (if you buy the Cozy plans).

 

Don't wait a year - start now. A year from now you will thank me. It doesn't cost a lot of money to start.

[John D. Wages]

Get your shop ready. Build the table. Start collecting tools. Do the practice layups in Chapter 3 (if you buy the Cozy plans).

 

Don't wait a year - start now. A year from now you will thank me. It doesn't cost a lot of money to start.

 

I'll second that motion!

[KS canard builder]

I looked on Cosy Girrrls website and it had a few tools to get, are there any others that you might need?????

 

Hope to buy the plans this summer.

 

What can I do to get my garage in order? It is only 18 X 22 feet, so space will be precious. I've also heard both sides of building a box for BID. I am leaning towards building a box, but what I am reading is saying to build a bigger table to cut on. Does that sound right???????

[Jon Matcho]

What can I do to get my garage in order? It is only 18 X 22 feet, so space will be precious.

I was in the same boat, until I kicked all the cars out of the garage. Regardless, I opted to build 4 tables that I bolted together true and square. I was inspired by the standardized work tables from EAA Chapter 1000.

 

A big table is key. The 4-table approach has you build four 2' x 6' tables (or whatever length/width you desire), which can come apart when you need.

 

In hindsight, I don't plan on taking apart anytime soon. I'd have to cut the top worksurface anyway, and not sure of the benefit unless it was something like me doing 2 wings at near the same time.

 

Best advice right now is to empty all the crap out of your garage and get organized. Enjoy, and good luck! Plans are cheap.

[Big Steve]

The plans are only a small percentage of a $40,000 dollar airplane buy the plans study them. Start with the tools you have I built a whole Longeze without much more than a jig saw scissors and later a bandsaw and drill press. The Longeze paid for my machine shop so now I have a few more tools. Build the cheap stuff Jigs are cheap and there are a lot of them. You cant build them unless you have plans. Home depot will be your supply store. Use a cheap scale if you cant afford a pump. Start and the money will come. People who do drugs have no money but they have drugs. I have no money but I have airplane parts. Why???? because I started. STeve

[KS canard builder]

Thanks for the weblink for the table Jon. I think I may be building 3-4 tables also. That looks like a great idea.

 

Anyone want to help with a garage sale????????

[Edge 513]

Take the above from one our most successful "addicts", Idaho's Big Steve. Where theres a will theres a way. He's one of the fastest builders.

Every day is a "fix" in Steve's airplane building opium den. Its just he wears a mask to filter out the really bad stuff.

Steve, you need a sign over your door. Welcome to "Steve's Canardian Cazbah".

 

'Course some would say their shops are Canardian Cashbahs, cuz it does cost 45-65k to build one.=/

[KS canard builder]

I was looking on ACS, and I need some help looking to buy kits/ parts for the Cozy Mark IV.

 

Do the chapter kits include all materials needed to build the chapter, or do you have to supplement the chapters with the material kits? If I add all the chapter $'s, it is around $13,000. The material kits add up to around $12,000. with both of these numbers, at around $25,000, that sounds about like the cost of building without engine and avionics me thinks..... Does that sound right? If this is the case, Does anyone know which materials kit to purchase with the first few chapters?

 

I would like to know so I can start budgeting $'s to purchase the chapter/materials kits I need to start building. I know I will have to pay as I go.

 

Thanks for listening to me talk my way through the first purchase. I appreciate all the help and straight forward talk I have gotten to help chose which plane to build.

 

Brock

[Phil Kriley]

I had the same confusion - chapter kits or materials kits or?

 

The answer is that you can buy either. Personally, I've been buying the chapter kits as I go - and I'm up to Chapter 12. You can also buy the chapter kits from Wicks. I've bought from AS&S and Wicks because I like to keep both companies around.

 

What you do NOT see in the chapter kits, however, are the EPOXY needed AND THE SPECIALLY MADE PARTS. Look at Chapter 2 - the materials lists - and compare what's included in the chapter kits to what is listed in Chapter 2 for each chapter. The epoxy needed is listed in the plans, but is NOT included in the chapter kits. Ditto for the specially made parts.

 

I've been buying all of my specially made parts from Cozy Girrrls, and their stuff is excellent, but it's not cheap. I spent about $1000 for parts for chapters 10 and 11 - building the elevators and canard.

 

I spent somewhere around $800 to buy the main landing gear bow from Featherlite. I bought pre-cut foam from Eureka for the elevator and canard. I bought the electric actuator for the landing brake and I bought fuel sight guages from Atkinson.

 

Bottom line best guestimate would be to add up the cost of all the chapter kits, add up the gallons of epoxy called out in the plans and multiply by the cost of the epoxy system you plan to use, then make a list of all the special parts and go to the Cozy Girrls site and add up the cost. Go to Featherlite and add up the parts you will need from them, and then Todd's canopies to see what that will cost.

 

Ballpark (I hope) is $20-25,000 for the airframe. Then you have to finish off the interior, buy and install instruments, and then your engine, engine mount, prop, and prop extension.

 

$50-65,000 for a flying plane, depending on what you put in your panel and behiind your firewall.

 

And as I plod through Chapter 9, I can see why some people pack it in. It's a lot of work.

 

I believe the the end result will be worth the effort!

[argoldman]

A general rule of thumb (which I just made up looking at my index finger) is add atleast 25% to the cost and double the time that you think it will take you to build.

 

Some of the extensionuating factors are: remaking parts that the gremlins came in to "modify while you slept, and not being as stingy with materials as Jeff or Nat was. You will probably, at least, need more glass and epoxy. Since the bolts that are used go through hand lay-ups, you may need different length bolts. Much of the fiberglass is cut diagonally so you will have large triangular "drops"-- save them, they will come in useful later. Additionally plan to cut your glass in such a way as to cut the pieces whose edges will be perpendicular or parallel to the natural sides of the glass first and then cut your diagonals (saves lots of triangular pieces.)

 

In the beginning you will waste a lot of epoxy by mixing too much. You will learn to mix more appropriately as time goes on. However, I have found that it is better to mix too much than too little (unless you are using slow set epoxy.)

 

Stick to the plans and do few modifications if you want to remain relatively in budget and time estimate. Modifications are expensive in time and $.

 

Enjoy your build

 

Other's experiences may differ