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US may not be able to buy IBIS plans


tx_canard
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Hi

I hate to be the bad news bearer, but here goes. Saturday I requested info on the Ibis and inquired how much plans cost. After a day or so I recieved a email from the designer asking where I was from. I wrote "US" and sent it back. Today I got this reply:

 

Jean Claude JUNQUA

 

Astobizkar- Quartier des Bois

 

64480 Ustaritz - France

 

www.junqua-aircraft.com

 

IBIS PLANS DELIVERY

 

We regret to inform you that JUNQUA-AIRCRAFT have reluctantly decided to discontinue sales of the IBIS plans to certain countries where we have encountered problems with Homebuilders.

 

 

These countries are currently: Brazil, Slovenia, Netherland, India, Indonesia

 

 

 

This decision may in future have to be extended to any country where builders do NOT RESPECT THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT AND THE DESIGNERS PLANS.

 

Another instance of “no respect for contract and designer plans” (this time in the USA) has recently been brought to our notice. This case concerns a new homebuilder from Oklahoma ( City of Mannford ) who has made major modifications which will, inevitably, lead to an unavoidable ( deep stall ) accident immediately after take off.

 

My staff and I have therefore reluctantly made the unanimous decision to add the USA to the list above and stop all sale of IBIS plans in that country until further advises. This will take effect from February 9th 2006, and the decision will remain in force until this particular homebuilder agrees to revert to the designer plans.

 

The matter has been brought to the attention of the E A A. We should know now if the governing authorities enforce (LIKE IN EUROP) the respect of the plans unless any modifications have been sanctioned by the designer.

 

Our sole preoccupation is to ensure the safety of all Homebuilders, based on our experience with the concept.

 

While not wishing to be unhelpful, we have to ensure that we avoid potential trouble before it can occur. There is the highly probable risk of an accident, and even death, if there are unauthorised modifications of the canard surface.This aircraft cannot be modified to enter in “Ultra light” and/or LSA category !!

 

It is vital to remember that the Canard is not just a classic airplane. Some homebuilders do not understand this !!!

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Jean Claude JUNQUA (co- designer )

 

Ps : We have just now received informations from EAA direction. We need few additional informations and know if the governing authorities inforce this respect of the plans or not. Their reply will influence our decision as to whether we can continue to sell plans in the USA or not. Call me back please in about 3 or 4 weeks for news and to give you our final decision to USA.

 

 

Just thought everyone here would like to know.

SSGT Williams

I guess I'd better be prepared to pay 1000 or more on ebay for Long EZ plans....

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Don't be blue! Build an Open EZ!! Buy the TERF CD and download the free templates in the OPEN EZ forum and build a "Long EZ" clone, Call it the TTC (TexasTandemCanard) or something. The French think a little bit too much of the French.

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I'm sure if you wrote to them and told them of your plans to rebuild the Luftwaffe they'd be much more accomidating. Just make sure to confirm that the IBIS has the range to bomb Paris from Germany and they'll have no problem selling you anything you want.

 

Of course, such a request might attract the interest of the French security services. In case you'd forgotten France's national alert system:

 

Level I: Gesturing exitedly

Level II: Ineffective combat operations

Level III: Surrender

Level IV: Collaboration

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Well, im going to build the TTC like a previous post said. :)

 

Seems to think I am annoyed about his decision. No, I just wanted to build one airplane, no mods per plans.

Im not trying to start a war, just make an airplane. (GRIN)

About the french designer, I have opened up a pandoras box.

Oh Well....

> Message du 02/04/06 à 21h06

> De : "Ssgt Williams"

> A : jimjunqua@voila.fr

> Copie à :

> Objet : Re: info on ibis

>

>

Hi

Thanks for the answer about not selling me plans. Being that this is a republic, anybody who has a set of plans can modify them without worry of enforcement from an aviation authority. This was the same problem Rutan had with his canard designs. Oh well, Ill be forced to devlop my own Canard design.

Merci

Sammy Williams

>

> "jimjunqua@voila.fr" wrote:

 

 

Williams

 

Ustaritz 03.03.2006

 

Good morning

 

 

You are annoyed by our decision to stop saling plans to your country !!! I undestand but it’s the result of the serious of some homebuilders !!!!

 

We are happy to know that Rutan has stop selling plans for the same reason. This was a big question for Us !!!!! we have now the answer!!!

 

Of course you design your proper canard . I am sure, when you have solved all your problems, that you will do like RUTAN and JUNQUA. You should know that Canard is not just a classic airplane !!!! Please be kind to advise me when your design will be flying...

 

For your information the IBIS project represent the result of:

 

Building of a radio control model,

 

Two wing tunnel models,

 

A “Proof of concept” VOLUCELLE flying for the first time on August 21 1986 equipped with flaps on main wing,

 

One IBIS prototype and then the final version of the IBIS About 15 years of work with my staff.

 

I was the test pilot ( old military and airline pilot 15000 hours experience )

 

This is not the Republic but the result of long research on the concept and we should be serious and protect the homebuilders of their stupidity to modified designs like Canards Do not forget we were professionalsand we remain !!!!

 

Based on all these studies, research and flying test we took the irrevocable decision not to allow any modifications to the aircraft design.

 

Good look

 

Jean claude JUNQUA

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Sounds like they're trying to bully via proxy.

Indeed.

 

My $0.02:

 

It's their legal prerogative to take their bat and ball and go home, but in this country, you're still (relatively) free to build a machine that will probably kill you when you try and fly it, and the builder is well within his or her rights to do so against the wishes of the manufacturer, unless there's some kind of legal agreement to the contrary which is actually enforcable.

 

Unfortunately, trying to push the EAA and FAA into policing the way people build planes from plans is a wonderful way to alienate the US market. Their loss...

 

Me? I'm building a SuperOpenDaveTZ.

 

-dave

This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack.

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This is not the Republic but the result of long research on the concept and we should be serious and protect the homebuilders of their stupidity to modified designs like Canards Do not forget we were professionalsand we remain !!!!

 

Based on all these studies, research and flying test we took the irrevocable decision not to allow any modifications to the aircraft design.

 

Good look

 

Jean claude JUNQUA

He obviously has no understanding of how our FAA and EAA work, and what US Experimental Aviation is all about. Selling plans, at least in the USA, is the wrong business for him. Now if he wanted to enter the Certified Aircraft market, he'd be able to have his way -- "no modifications". Then again... maybe he has a perfect understanding of the legal system.

 

Oh well, I guess I won't be building an IBIS... it was 3rd or 4th on my list anyway. :rolleyes:

 

Definitely HIS loss -- not ours.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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There used to be rules here in Oz that builders were not permitted to modify designs, the plans were sacred and you had to follow. On the other hand the REGULATOR could impose changes as they saw fit. We now have a system that closely resembles the way the US has written theirs down, which is much more reasonable. Thank you SAAA.

 

Am really uncomfortable with the racist comments above, regardless of historical evidence.

 

The other way of looking at it is if you have entered into an agreement with the designer (while I haven't seen the agreement involved I gather this from the designer's comments above) that precludes changes to the design, then your options are to build it that way or build something else.

Mark Spedding - Spodman
Darraweit Guim - Australia
Cozy IV #1331 -  Chapter 09
www.mykitlog.com/Spodman
www.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane

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No problem Steve, ...moving on... :)

 

The bottom line is that, if Junqua holds to his decision, neither the FAA nor the EAA will become a police organization for experimental aircraft (thank goodness!) and that the IBIS will no longer be an option to build in the U.S.

 

I am disappointed, but I'll live...

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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  • 1 month later...

Contact Trade a plane and subscribe to the newspaper. there may be some there. Baring that, ask someone who deals in canard aircraft near you, like an EAA member. The last option, contact the IBIS people in France__ mabye they will be more amicable to you than us people here in the USA.

S. Williams

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Contact Trade a plane and subscribe to the newspaper. there may be some there. Baring that, ask someone who deals in canard aircraft near you, like an EAA member. The last option, contact the IBIS people in France__ mabye they will be more amicable to you than us people here in the USA.

S. Williams

 

It's extremely unlikely that you'll find someone willing to sell her/his Ibis for two reasons:

- the number of completions is still very low, probably in the low teens at the most, with a few first flights about to happen in France.

- it's a very economical aircraft to operate. If you'd sell your Ibis, a replacement will likely be less economical.

 

bye

Hans

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  • 2 months later...

Hi group,

 

last week I got confirmation of the fact that an American had had no problem whatsoever to get an existing license transferred to him.

JC apparently was very cooperative.

So, as long as no new plans are sold into the US, hunting down a stopped project might be the way to go if you intend to build an Ibis.

 

Just a thought.

 

cheers,

Hans

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  • 1 month later...

Don't be blue! Build an Open EZ!! Buy the TERF CD and download the free templates in the OPEN EZ forum and build a "Long EZ" clone, Call it the TTC (TexasTandemCanard) or something. The French think a little bit too much of the French.

 

Hi Folks,

my first post since joining this forum.

lagdamper - what would prevent us from ordering those plans form a county other than the US and then ship them over here? I got plenty of international connections.

What are they charging for the plans?

Do we need to buy any parts (canopy) other than the plans to complete the aircraft?

What is the TERF CD?

 

Thanks

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The Rutan Aircraft Factory put out a request for proposal several years ago for someone to PDF all the Canard Pusher Newsletters, the Longez & Varieze & Variviggen Plans, and the Operating Manuals to all these planes. There might be more stuff---but can't check since I am away from home. Terf is the company that won that contract----and they sell the CDs.

 

Other than the plans, there are all kinds of parts to buy. But I assume you mean parts like a canopy as opposed to fiberglass roles, foam, wire, etc. You will need things like:

-gear legs

-canopy (you can blow yourself---or get someone to blow a custom canopy for you---or more or less buy one off the self)

-brake/wheel hardware

-engine mount (you could make)

-engine

-avionics (anywhere from $2000-$20000 depending upon what you want

-all the hardware (brackets, pulleys, torque tubes, canopy hooks/latches, rudder pedals, bellcranks). You can make most of these yourself

-nose gear leg

 

While most of the things I mentioned you can make yourself---I would not (unless you have access to a laser cutter or cad/cam machine like some people do).

 

Main gear and nose gear you pretty much need to buy. Making a canopy probably should not be done by a first time builder---but what the heck---it might be fun.

 

Some people even build their own props

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Drew,

 

thanks for your reply.

What I meant was - what parts, other than the plans, would one have to buy from the IBIS folks? Order them from somewhere else, then ship everything to the US and built it under a modified name.

 

Do they even offer any prefab things as canopy, landing gear...?

What are they charging for the plans?

 

Has anybody ever put the 60hp HKS 4-stroke engine in one?

 

Thanks again.

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C'mon guys, doesn't anybody hear the banter from the French guys in the movie "The Holy Grail", "I fart in your general direction......."

 

I didn't think Mssr Rutan stopped selling plans because builders were not following the plans. I believe it was the lack of profit and the abundance of lawsuits, which was probably causing the lack of profit......

 

From the email posted it appears that the seller of IBIS plans has issues with those who would build not according to his plans. I think I would have issues with someone not following my instructions, especially if they claimed a superior result from all my hard work. Unless my sole reason for selling the plans was fiduciary in nature.

 

Maybe, the issue is a little deeper, which means that, being in a disapproved country for plans sales, support may be even more difficult to get from said seller. Buying from another owner may not improve the situation.

Back to building... #618 Cozy MK IV

 

My Cozy web pages, courtesy: Rick Maddy... :cool: WN9G :rolleyes:

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  • 15 years later...

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