E-Racer vs Long-Eze/Cozy iv

[AP3_C]

Would like to hear the groups for's and against's for the aircraft listed below.

 

Long-Eze: I have always had an interest in this aircraft for as long as I can remember. Is probably the one defining encounter that got me involved with aviation. So a lot of sentimental feelings are involved with this option.

 

Few areas I have against the Long-Eze are: a)With tandam seating my wife would sort of feel as if she is on her own in the back. b)limited panel space, c)not keen on the idea of having all charts and other required gear up front with no where to put it.

 

Cozy IV: I like the idea of side by side seating, but probably the biggest selling point for me would be the builder support for this aircraft. For futher pro's see con's for long-eze.

 

Con's, I really would prefer a two seater as I would like to have reasonable performance from o-320 (160hp) or equivilant, most of the Cozy IV's I have seen have at least 180hp. Plan on using the aircraft for my wife and I only to cruise around the Australian country side (hence 2 seats only required). Also the aircraft it's self is larger than what I would prefer.

 

E-Racer: I like the side by side two seat options, engine size fits in to my criteria. I like the looks of it, retractable looks good (this is not a defining option I am not bothered if the mains are retractable or not, they just look good). In the MKII option there is a fairly large baggage area (using Lycoming engine). Other pro's as per Long-eze Con's.

 

Con's, Lack of builders web sites. I have not been able to find much info other than the "Canard Aviators Airpark" site. Then it has mostly pics of construction rather than discriptions.

 

I Agree, all the above aircraft are very similar, but what sets one apart from the other?

 

My list of wishes are:

Canard (really)

160hp or equivilant

Preferably 2 seats (not totally discounted to 4 but need very good reasons)

Side by side seating preferably

Plans built (I plan on taking my time about the project, not intended to be finished in 3-5 years).

Very good handling qualities.

 

We could enter into a whole new debate about 2 Vs 4 seats here, but at the moment I would like to know if one model should not be built due to design issues or flying qualities.

 

Thanks

 

Jamie

[kumaros]

Would like to hear the groups for's and against's for the aircraft listed below.

 

Long-Eze:

snipped

 

Cozy IV:

snipped:

 

E-Racer:

snipped

 

My list of wishes are:

Canard (really)

160hp or equivilant

Preferably 2 seats (not totally discounted to 4 but need very good reasons)

Side by side seating preferably

Plans built (I plan on taking my time about the project, not intended to be finished in 3-5 years).

Very good handling qualities.

 

We could enter into a whole new debate about 2 Vs 4 seats here, but at the moment I would like to know if one model should not be built due to design issues or flying qualities.

 

Thanks

 

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

why choose only between 2 and 4 place aircraft? you forgot the camel's way, which seem to thrive in Australia :-)

With your wish list you just described a Cozy III as your ideal aircraft; it fulfills all your criteria. It's the middle of the road between the Long-EZ and the Cozy MKIV, you can pick up an unifinished project for cents on the dollar, and even though it isn't a high priority for you, save a couple of years building.

Kumaros

[Wayne Hicks]

You said: "Preferably 2 seats (not totally discounted to 4 but need very good reasons) ."

 

The Cozy IV's rear seats aren't very suitable for carrying the 3rd and 4th persons in comfort. What they are good for is carrying lots of luggage! It's amazing what luggage is needed when you attend airshows and camp on the field. Many consider the IV's utility to be one of it's best selling points.

 

http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/waynehicks/cozy_baggage.jpg

[Nathan Gifford]

Really the MKIV fits your bill, unless you want tandem seating.

 

True, there is not much official builder support for the MKIV, there are loads of unofficial support (ie this site and others).

 

The only other option are the Velocity series of a/c. That is spelled with $$$. Still rememeber these $$$ have created the environment where:

 

a) You can actually pay for a ride in an a/c.

b) There is a real development program for enhancements.

c) Factory support.

 

Restating your criteria, you want a fast, cross country aircraft to carry two people side-by-side, plus baggage with 160+ hp engine. The best fit would be the Cozy. While there have been 160hp Cozies built, but from the comments I have read they would rather have a 180.

[Jon Matcho]

Kumaros hit the nail on the head -- your specifications call for a Cozy III with a Lycoming 320 series engine. I'm amazed at how many abandoned Cozy III projects go up for sale, and they are indeed "pennies for the dollar".

 

The E-Racer is not as prolific, but something to consider. Its weight and balance are slightly different than the Long-EZ and Cozys. I think that you don't need to worry about balast in the front (but you'll have to verify that).

 

The smallest Velocity fixed gear is comparable with the Cozy Mark IV, but does not have a retractable nose gear. However, they did set it up so that it does not have to "kneel" so it doesn't fall back on its propellor.

 

Even with the Cozy III meeting your criteria, I would definitely suggest looking at the Cozy IV with a Lycoming 360 series engine. You can dedicate the rear in either of these to baggage, or move the seatback aft an inch or two to give yourself a little more leg room. The community-provided builder support for the Cozy IV is exceptional.

 

Finally, don't forget to take a look at Steve Wright's StaggerEZ, which is a custom canard with staggered seating, to see what you can do if time, money, and experience are not your limiting factors.

[Nathan Gifford]

...Finally, don't forget to take a look at Steve Wright's StaggerEZ...

It is a very nice plane, but to the best of my knowledge no plans are available.

[AP3_C]

Thanks for the replies, has given me some info to think about.

 

From the suggestions being put out there it is really looking like the Cozy IV may be the way to go.

 

Regarding the Cozy III, as I live in Australia there has not been to many of them up for sale, so buying one from the states and shipping it here would not be very cost effective. There are not that many Cozy IV's about either. But at least there are some flying.

 

I do like the E-racer but the level of support is just not there and I belive there are none registered in Australia (I could be wrong).

 

I see a lot of questions being asked about pilots that are big be it tall or heavy set fitting into Canard aircraft. But what about the other way. Myself I am a bit of a short bugger. 160cm tall (5ft 2", I think?).

 

Jamie

[Nathan Gifford]

More cushion, longer adjustable rudder pedals.

[AP3_C]

More cushion, longer adjustable rudder pedals.

The old telephone book theory. Hey I guess it works.

 

During my flight training many moons ago I was flying a Cherokee 140 and I had a 5" thick foam cushion I carried with me every where.

 

Has anyone played with the idea of an adjustable seat back or false seat back that can be taken out to suit? I assume the seat back is an integral part of the fuse structure so why not fit the seat back in standard position but mount a false back that is fixed to original seat back and not the fuse sides. Perhaps false back can be made in two halves so as the short pilot being myself could take someone that is considerably taller for a flight with out being cooped up. The space behind the seat could be used as storage for long narrow items or a custom made tool roll/kit.

 

Darn the Experimental Bug

 

Jamie

[Jon Matcho]

The Cozy Mark IV is practically built for you. The designer, Nat Puffer, is about 5' 6" tall.

 

Perhaps false back can be made in two halves so as the short pilot being myself could take someone that is considerably taller for a flight with out being cooped up. The space behind the seat could be used as storage for long narrow items or a custom made tool roll/kit.

That's definitely possible, and you're right -- you do need the seatback for structure. You can buid 100% to plans and figure out if and how you want to do this further down the line.

 

You might consider turning your attention to a set of custom cushions, to fit you like a racecar driver.

 

Darn the Experimental Bug

There's another topic altogether . Welcome to the club!

[deronjthomas]

If you’re a big guy, or like a lot of room. You can always make the Mark IV in to a tandem aircraft.

[AP3_C]

Thanks to everyone for the input, you all have given me plenty to think about.

 

At this stage I think the Cozy IV is looking like the way I would like to go. David Orr would be happy about that, he spent ages trying to talk me out of the Long-Eze because I would regret not having more space. Thanks for the Advice David.

 

Being an Australian I would like to seriously look into using the 5.1ltr Jabiru engine. Have to support local industries. Issues being the length of the engine, it's just under 1m long (969mm I think) at least it is lighter than equivilant Lycoming.

 

Anyway this is all getting ahead of myself, I am still building my shed or should I say hanger at the moment.

 

I need to be really, REALLY good and maybe I might get some Cozy plans for Christmas.

 

To give a little info on my backgound: I am 28 years old. Spent some time trying to get a commercial job flying. Ended up flying PA-30 twin Comanche's for a little while. Joined the Royal Australian Airforce and have been working on the Avionics systems of the AP3-C Lockheed Orion (military version of the old Lockheed Electra) for the last six years. Bit of a change, I fix aeroplanes rather than fly them.

 

There is one story I have to tell though.

 

I was on a night flight in country Victoria Australia, when my passenger asked me how I was able to tell where I was going at night. I tried giving an explination of VOR, ADF, VFR navigation and GPS to all this I got this vague look of not understanding so in the end I reverted to something someone else had told me once. "You see that little red light out there to the left and the little blue one out to the right. Well if I stay between those two lights I know where I am going". To this the passenger was happy and we continued on with a smooth flight.

 

Unfortunatly the art of ZEN navigation is a bit harder in an aeroplane (to follow someone who looks as though they know where they are going).

 

I think I will stop gas bagging now, not a lot to do at 0030hrs just got back from work.

 

Jamie

[Nathan Gifford]

Another tip, building airplane construction really has 3 phases (4 or 5 if you throw in finishing and flight testing): airframe, instruments, powerplant.

 

After you have gotten significantly through building your airframe then you can start to worry about avionics and powerplant. Basically, it is a good idea to wait on these. Further, by the time you need to start worrying about the powerplant, newer powerplant solutions might well be available (like Eggenfellener Subie, or rotary). Avionics too may offer significant enhancements at lower cost by waiting.

[Spodman]

Hello ap3_c

 

There are a couple of III's flying in Australia, based in YPPH (I believe) and YSCB, and one IV at YHOX has just flown.

 

I've had a quick tour of the Jabiru factory in Bundaberg and it was rather impressive. They've shipped about 15 5100s, at least two for Cozys, and they have a mount available. It shares most parts with the much more common 3300. It ends up lighter, narrower and about the same length installed apparantly. Like you I'm years off needing an engine but it would be nice

 

Another factor (which will affect all your canard choices) is the relatively primitive state of airports. There are limited options for that $500 hamburger here. It suits me though.